Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (141 Viewers)

[justsomedude]

Been a member for 7 years and still don't understand how NAGBs work very vaguely anyways

A) Guys get a gaming license from whatever jurisdiction they can.

B) They buy chips from Paulson … sometimes inviting others into the purchase (the Group Buy aspect) to spread the cost responsibility for hitting Paulson MOQs, and just generally upping order Qtys to (ideally) bring more chips to the resale market.

B2) Alternatively, a couple guys have funded their buy completely independently to minimize risk of blabber-mouths that could tank the operation (if word hit the forums or got back to Paulson), and to be a sole source to maximize resale profits.

C) Receive chips and sit on them for 12-18 months to create some distance from the initial purchase to minimize blowback from Paulson for clearly running an unauthorized consumer market / retail order.

D) Reveal chips.

E) Resell at cost (has never happened except in private transactions), resell for mark up, or keep em all to yourself. It’s all groovy.


There’s a lot more nuance to it, but that’s the 10,000-foot view.

The reason it’s jokingly called Not A Group Buy (NAGB) is that if others are invited in, it’s a very select few who get to be included and buy at cost, it is kept secret from the rest of the forum (compared to other public Group Buys that anyone can enter), and has been known to irritate some (who weren’t invited). It’s a tongue-in-cheek jab at the clandestine and exclusive nature of the process.

 

[PlayerADK]

A) Guys get a gaming license from whatever jurisdiction they can.

B) They buy chips from Paulson … sometimes inviting others into the purchase (the Group Buy aspect) to spread the cost responsibility for hitting Paulson MOQs, and just generally upping order Qtys to (ideally) bring more chips to the resale market.

B2) Alternatively, a couple guys have funded their buy completely independently to minimize risk of blabber-mouths that could tank the operation (if word hit the forums or got back to Paulson), and to be a sole source to maximize resale profits.

C) Receive chips and sit on them for 12-18 months to create some distance from the initial purchase to minimize blowback from Paulson for clearly running an unauthorized consumer market / retail order.

D) Reveal chips.

E) Resell at cost (has never happened except in private transactions), resell for mark up, or keep em all to yourself. It’s all groovy.


There’s a lot more nuance to it, but that’s the 10,000-foot view.

The reason it’s jokingly called Not A Group Buy (NAGB) is that if others are invited in, it’s a very select few who get to be included and buy at cost, it is kept secret from the rest of the forum (compared to other public Group Buys that anyone can enter), and has been known to irritate some (who weren’t invited). It’s a tongue-in-cheek jab at the clandestine and exclusive nature of the process.

Gotcha - I think B/B2 is where I was uncertain, but makes sense!

Let me paraphrase my initial comment "I am upset I've never been included"

 

[upNdown]

The reason it’s jokingly called Not A Group Buy (NAGB) is that if others are invited in, it’s a very select few who get to be included and buy at cost, it is kept secret from the rest of the forum (compared to other public Group Buys that anyone can enter), and has been known to irritate some (who weren’t invited). It’s a tongue-in-cheek jab at the clandestine and exclusive nature of the process.

To expound a bit, the first one (Aurora Star, right?) fractured the community. I think there were something like 30 people involved, so a whole boatload of PCFers got really pissy that they weren’t allowed to get in on that group buy. A common and repeated response (from the people who were in on the group buy) was to insist IT WAS NOT A GROUP BUY! As if characterizing the select few as investors (as opposed to group buyers) would appease the angry hoards. But they persisted with that argument, to the point that NAGB became part of our vernacular.

 

[justsomedude]

To expound a bit, the first one (Aurora Star, right?) fractured the community. I think there were something like 30 people involved, so a whole boatload of PCFers got really pissy that they weren’t allowed to get in on that group buy. A common and repeated response (from the people who were in on the group buy) was to insist IT WAS NOT A GROUP BUY! As if characterizing the select few as investors (as opposed to group buyers) would appease the angry hoards. But they persisted with that argument, to the point that NAGB became part of our vernacular.

There were many lessons learned in the AS and ES buys. And make no mistake, there’s still quite a few people who get involved with more recent and ongoing NAGBs; they’re just better at keeping it quiet now, specifically to minimize the potential downstream impacts/arguments within the forum/community that were observed previously.

And honestly, I have no issue with it… Paulson/GPI/Angel made their stupid rules, and as a result this is one of the unintended consequences.

As the saying goes: don’t hate the player, hate the game.

 

[WedgeRock]

To expound a bit, the first one (Aurora Star, right?) fractured the community. I think there were something like 30 people involved, so a whole boatload of PCFers got really pissy that they weren’t allowed to get in on that group buy. A common and repeated response (from the people who were in on the group buy) was to insist IT WAS NOT A GROUP BUY! As if characterizing the select few as investors (as opposed to group buyers) would appease the angry hoards. But they persisted with that argument, to the point that NAGB became part of our vernacular.

100% this.

 

[elemeno]

A) Guys get a gaming license from whatever jurisdiction they can.

B) They buy chips from Paulson … sometimes inviting others into the purchase (the Group Buy aspect) to spread the cost responsibility for hitting Paulson MOQs, and just generally upping order Qtys to (ideally) bring more chips to the resale market.

B2) Alternatively, a couple guys have funded their buy completely independently to minimize risk of blabber-mouths that could tank the operation (if word hit the forums or got back to Paulson), and to be a sole source to maximize resale profits.

C) Receive chips and sit on them for 12-18 months to create some distance from the initial purchase to minimize blowback from Paulson for clearly running an unauthorized consumer market / retail order.

D) Reveal chips.

E) Resell at cost (has never happened except in private transactions), resell for mark up, or keep em all to yourself. It’s all groovy.


There’s a lot more nuance to it, but that’s the 10,000-foot view.

The reason it’s jokingly called Not A Group Buy (NAGB) is that if others are invited in, it’s a very select few who get to be included and buy at cost, it is kept secret from the rest of the forum (compared to other public Group Buys that anyone can enter), and has been known to irritate some (who weren’t invited). It’s a tongue-in-cheek jab at the clandestine and exclusive nature of the process.

Good info! I never knew they sat on it for 12-18 months. I think I remember reading somewhere that they’re typically sold for 10x the cost…which would mean the average cost is about 60c to $1 per chip? Does that sound about right?

 

[Tonysquander]

Does that sound about right?

No

 

[Josh Kifer]

100% this.

I just remember when one of the NAGBs neighbors made a new PCF account to sell his new AS set and all hell broke loose....

I sold so many pitchforks.... Mmmm.

 

[Tonysquander]

I just remember when one of the NAGBs neighbors made a new PCF account to sell his new AS set and all hell broke loose....

I sold so many pitchforks.... Mmmm.

It is too bad those threads were scrubbed…would have been an interesting read

 

[Johnblue]

@Pinkdan i am loving these guys running interference for me with the NAGB dissertation.

 

[BigGrizz]

Good info! I never knew they sat on it for 12-18 months. I think I remember reading somewhere that they’re typically sold for 10x the cost…which would mean the average cost is about 60c to $1 per chip? Does that sound about right?

Its significantly higher. We don't know exact prices and those who know aren't willing to share. I presume they won't share because some people would blow back very hard on how much the increase is (without factoring in risk and profit motive). I mean, @kk405 still has unsold stock so essentially that is a loss until it finally sells. A lot of people won't factor that in and will rage out.

By contrast @TheChipVault seems to have cleared inventory, but the CV Trilogy appears to be a significantly smaller buy at a reduced profit margin. People would probably still bitch about him taking too much.

I will ask @TheChipVault one question that I hope isnt intrusive. Was Faro or Rancho the larger series? (I know Luckys was tiny).

 

[Johnblue]

To expound a bit, the first one (Aurora Star, right?) fractured the community. I think there were something like 30 people involved, so a whole boatload of PCFers got really pissy that they weren’t allowed to get in on that group buy. A common and repeated response (from the people who were in on the group buy) was to insist IT WAS NOT A GROUP BUY! As if characterizing the select few as investors (as opposed to group buyers) would appease the angry hoards. But they persisted with that argument, to the point that NAGB became part of our vernacular.

All they had to do was call @Puggy, but they didn’t.

NEVER FORGET.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

Well I heard @kk405 and @TheChipVault have figured out a way to reverse aging and live immortal lives by harvesting the tears of PCFers. Just what I heard though.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I wouldn’t say all NAGB sat on them…

 

[WedgeRock]

I heard the NAGB sets were about $1.35 per chip. I was not among the original owners.

 

[WedgeRock]

I sold so many pitchforks

I remember when you got banned for like 3 months because you shipped Garden Weasels instead of pitchforks.

It was a quiet 3 months.

 

[justsomedude]

I heard the NAGB sets were about $1.35 per chip. I was not among the original owners.

For the AS and ES chips, that’s darn close. Prices varied between hotstamps and inlay, 39mm vs 43mm, etc.

 

[elemeno]

No

I heard the NAGB sets were about $1.35 per chip. I was not among the original owners.

For the AS and ES chips, that’s darn close. Prices varied between hotstamps and inlay, 39mm vs 43mm, etc.

Yeah, maybe the 10x was hyperbolic and not meant literally. I found where I got that number from, but no point in quoting it.

If it was ~$1.35 per chip from a few years ago, my guess is that it’s near ~$1.75 for more recent sets based on Paulson taking price at rates a bit higher than inflation. No idea if that’s a good or poor assumption.

 

[WedgeRock]

I heard it was closer to $3 per chip for inlaid.

 

[elemeno]

I heard it was closer to $3 per chip for inlaid.

If that’s true, I can see why hot stamps proliferated (NAGB + actual casino chips)

 

[Josh Kifer]

I remember when you got banned for like 3 months because you shipped Garden Weasels instead of pitchforks.

It was a quiet 3 months.

I've never been banned. I've gotten my hand slapped many times, but never the full monty....

 

[Rieguy]

engages in ratroddery

These people have opinions? Disgusting.

Well I heard @kk405 and @TheChipVault have figured out a way to reverse aging and live immortal lives by harvesting the tears of PCFers.

like fishing with dynamite

 

[BigGrizz]

I heard it was closer to $3 per chip for inlaid.

If that’s true, I can see why hot stamps proliferated (NAGB + actual casino chips)

Wait, does that mean Paulson is charging more for inlays than hotstamps?

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Everything is worth what oeople whatever people will pay.

Which is why I have very few NAGB or Tiger chips. And the ones I have, I paid below what most others ask for them. If I'm going to pay $5-8 per chip, I'm mostly buying lead.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Wait, does that mean Paulson is charging more for inlays than hotstamps?

I think they always have. So does CPC.

 

[dizzyChipper]

Ok. Here’s mine:

Mint Chips are stupid.

Like a sports car that’s never gone fast…. What’s the point?

Buying mint chips to play I understand. Then you’ll have sharp chips with some use and I’m all for it.

Buying mint unplayed chips to hold? What’s the point? Are they an investment? I guess if they’re historically significant I get it… but generally…..

Mint chips to me are just wasted potential.

 

[WedgeRock]

Mint Chips are stupid.

 

[GamingWithChips]

Mint chips to me are just wasted potential.

I dislike all things mint, as you said, it’s always limiting and wastes potential!

It’s like a golf saying about your clubs “they are tools, not jewels”.

I love mint as a flavour though, especially spearmint.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Ok. Here’s mine:

Mint Chips are stupid.

Like a sports car that’s never gone fast…. What’s the point?

Buying mint chips to play I understand. Then you’ll have sharp chips with some use and I’m all for it.

Buying mint unplayed chips to hold? What’s the point? Are they an investment? I guess if they’re historically significant I get it… but generally…..

Mint chips to me are just wasted potential.

Well you sure put this in the proper thread

 

[Tonysquander]

The well-designed NAGB sets have the values they have because someone actually made design choices across the whole lineup: inlay or stamp themes, color palette and spot progression, playability, and overall table vibe when playing them. When those choices work, the set becomes more than the sum of its parts. ESPT is the GOAT tournament set for good reason. It is an exquisite 7 course meal at a 3 Michelin star restaurant. I can get red snapper at the Seafood Shack down the street and save a lot of money, but it will not compare to the taste, presentation, and experience of eating a snapper prepared at Le Bernardin.

The fact that some chips are relabeled does not automatically mean the original set lacked merit. In many cases, chips are relabeled precisely because the underlying chip is so incredibly attractive. Strong colors, desirable spot patterns, and excellent condition make them useful for matching custom relabels. That speaks to the quality of the chips, not to a deficiency in the original spot/color selection/design or inlay art. Relabeling great cohesive sets is perfectly fine if that’s what the owner wants, but it doesn’t prove the original set’s design lacked value or soul.

Whether someone prefers Tigers, AS, ES, BTP, RPC, Sunset Beach, RA, Luckys, or others, the reason people continue to discuss, collect, trade, and compare them is because they are not interchangeable blanks. Each set has its own personality and strengths, just as actual casino lineups (classic and otherwise) do.

The Tiger artwork is memorable, the colors are vibrant, and the chips have a presence on the table that immediately stands out, even to non-chippers. To me the various Tiger sets feel intentional from top to bottom rather than simply being a collection of attractive individual chips. They are not vintage casino chips, and do not have the historical significance of Dunes, Mapes, Sands, or classic TRK casino racks. But scarcity, desirability, look, appeal, execution, and demand still matter.

The true arbiter is the market, and it has repeatedly demonstrated that many NAGB sets are premium collector items. People actually want to own and play them, and that is why many of them cost more than the rando set from a “real” casino that mostly looks terrible, or the cheap chinese knockoffs that pale in comparison despite their lame attempts to steal glory from the original. The fact the pirates knockoff the original set without changing it, despite having the full ability to do so, says something about the OG greatness as well, although it could possibly just be a symptom of their own lack of vision and capability to create something original and truly great on their own.

The typical strawman arguments weaken and disappear with time. Claims that it is all just hype, marketing, manipulation, FOMO, etc. etc., even if true, can only get a product so far, after that it stands on its own merits. The majority of NAGB sets have done just that.