Common house fee (1 Viewer)

[ava]

Hi all,

Is it common to ask for some house fee in a home tournament? And if yes, how much?

For example is it a certain percentage of the entire pot? Or is it a percentage of only the buy-ins? Or a separate amount altogether?

Thx for any tips!
Alex

 

[Eriks]

Do you mean for food and drinks? I provide beer, wine, coffee and soft drinks, and sometimes food.

I don’t charge fees or rake the game to cover such costs though, but usually players tip some at cashout. If you want to make sure to get covered, I would just ask for a separate amount outside of the prize pool.

 

[detroitdad]

Do you mean for food and drinks? I provide beer, wine, coffee and soft drinks, and sometimes food.

I don’t charge fees or rake the game to cover such costs though, but usually players tip some at cashout. If you want to make sure to get covered, I would just ask for a separate amount outside of the prize pool.

This ^^^^^^^

 

[mnebesny]

For example is it a certain percentage of the entire pot? Or is it a percentage of only the buy-ins? Or a separate amount altogether?

Not sure how the laws work in Belgium, but in many countries taking a percentage ("raking") or running the game at a profit would be illegal under the gambling laws, so it's worth looking in to.

 

[TKEUofM]

I believe in most, if not all States, if you rake the pot it makes it an illegal game. For Michigan I looked it up a while back, all money paid in must be paid out.

For our game, I pre buy pizza, chips, and pop and it’s paid for by the fees paid in so everyone pays an equal share. I make sure it’s clear that my wife and I pay our entry fees so nobody can say we are benefitting.

But after all that if some one wants to “donate” to help fund the chips and table fund then they are welcome to do that.

*edit - just saw you are in Belgium…. Not sure on rules in other Countries.

 

[ava]

I am pretty sure it would be illegal to take a rake in Belgium indeed
But when I host, I do ask for a small contribution for the drinks and snacks (most often that's only 5 euros, which doesn't cover the costs at all, but it helps to soften it a bit). Since it is at buy-in time that I ask this, you could view it as "seating money" or something.

So I was wondering if other people organizing home tournaments take a cut from the pot, and if they did, how they organized it. But indeed as you say, that would only be in countries where this is considered legal

 

[Eriks]

@Thomacetti

 

[Benjaminotaur]

The only thing I’ve done is request a tip for the dealer off the bat to help them out.

Many dealers will work for tips only, but out stakes are so low it usually wouldn’t be worth their time at the end. I guarantee to true them up to an agreed amount at the end of the night, so the tip request just ensures I’m not the only one holding the bag at the end of the night.

As for any other expenses, I just eat the cost. I consider it a sunk cost for running the game. Most of my players are cool with whatever I provide, and they’ll bring their own stuff if they want something specific.

If you want to recoup some of your cost, I’d just be upfront and let them know what they’re paying up for. When you look at the cost of eating or drinking at an outside establishment, I’m sure they’ll be ok kicking in a few bucks.

 

[LeLe]

If you taking a rake for the purpose to cover the food, you violating 2 law - no gambling license and no food selling license

You mind as well just take money aside for the food, this way at least you only violating 1 law

I don’t take rake but also don’t prepare Ang food beside water/drinks. Our group usually just order delivery and normally the biggest winner or the more weathly guy will contribute the most

 

[warma]

How many folks? Maybe ask folks to bring a little something with a sign-up sheet?

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Hi all,

Is it common to ask for some house fee in a home tournament? And if yes, how much?

For example is it a certain percentage of the entire pot? Or is it a percentage of only the buy-ins? Or a separate amount altogether?

Thx for any tips!
Alex

Hi,

I do not charge for anything. I have an open bar policy and typically provide food as well. I generally ask people to bring a small side or chips or a desert. I live in Virginia, a state that has very strict gambling laws. Accepting money for anything makes your game a gambling establishment if the powers that be decide they want to raid you. Most of the games are left alone, but all it takes is one sore loser with a friend that's a cop.

With all that said, I am never out of pocket, especially for alcohol, because of my awesome friends!! Take the Alpha Shootout Memorial meetup for example. I made a $600 alcohol run prior to the meetup, and still came out way ahead. All of the alcohol below was donated by PCF peeps.

That's a long way of saying that, as long as you hang out with good people, you will get paid back 10x in amazing friendships (and extra alcohol) without having to rake a single penny.

Just my two cents!!

CHEERS,
Kev

 

[Budha]

Hi,

I do not charge for anything. I have an open bar policy and typically provide food as well. I generally ask people to bring a small side or chips or a desert. I live in Virginia, a state that has very strict gambling laws. Accepting money for anything makes your game a gambling establishment if the powers that be decide they want to raid you. Most of the games are left aline, but all it takes is one sore loser with a friend that's a cop.

With all that said, I am never out of pocket, especially for alcohol, because of my awesome friends!! Take the Alpha Shootout Memorial meetup for example. I made a $600 alcohol run prior to the meetup, and still came out way ahead. All of the alcohol below was donated by PCF peeps.

That's a long way of saying that, as long as you hang out with good people, you will get paid back 10x in amazing friendships (and extra alcohol) without having to rake a single penny.

Just my two cents!!

CHEERS,
Kev

View attachment 889521View attachment 889522View attachment 889523

yes, this ^^^.

 

[Thomacetti]

I am pretty sure it would be illegal to take a rake in Belgium indeed
But when I host, I do ask for a small contribution for the drinks and snacks (most often that's only 5 euros, which doesn't cover the costs at all, but it helps to soften it a bit). Since it is at buy-in time that I ask this, you could view it as "seating money" or something.

So I was wondering if other people organizing home tournaments take a cut from the pot, and if they did, how they organized it. But indeed as you say, that would only be in countries where this is considered legal

Don't skim the pot...that would be considered rake...not that it matters, it's illegal to host games of chance if money is involved.
There are some loop holes but a home game with a buy-in of $25 and up is never legal...raked or not.

I suggest you just ask 5/10/... a head before buy-ins are distributed and accept you are running a clandestine operation
Since tax fraude is our national sport, I wouldn't worry too much as long as you keep the game & bank on the downlow

 

[CraigT78]

Local laws aside, I have $15/head added into my league nights buy-in. I call it the hospitality fee and it goes towards pizza, kegs, and snacks. I also host at least one cash game per month and do not charge anyone on those nights, as it's all from the same player pool. No one has a problem with it, and the ability to show up empty handed knowing the are gonna eat, drink, and be marry is worth it to them.

 

[Machine]

In my experience the most effective way to take a rake on a tourney is to add it as an entry fee. It would be advertised as $125 + 15 - this tells the players that the prize pool is 125 x Entries and 15 for the rake.

For cash games, most underground games the players seem to frown on a time rake, so pull it from each hand.

If you try to get creative with the rake, you're only lying to yourself, you're not going to be able to skirt the law. I've found it better to put both feet on the side of the line you want to be on.

Take a rake, own it. Don't take a rake, eat all costs.

People ack like there are two reasons to take a rake, the honorable 'food and cost' and the low-down 'entertainment', like one is better than the other. Its the same thing as 'Loki's Wager', or being an accomplice to a crime, you are breaking the law. - full stop

Specifically asking for tips is a grey area, and may not go your way in court.

Most of the time the Law only shows up when it can benefit by looking good to the public or responding because it's a nuisance (someone complains), I've only really seen 2 times where they arrest, (in like 30 years) once was they broke the game trying to trap a specific person involving drugs and the second was morons running wide open tourneys and cash games no license and even reported they were robbed for 10k, it was an election year and on all the news channels.

There is also the ethical aspect, 'gambol'n' is 'okay' but taking a rake to cover costs and/or services is 'sinful' - meh all BS to me.

I've ran raked games in the past, and I run a non-raked game presently, there are reasons and situations where each make sense. In my .25/.50 game everyone is a friend and or co worker, taking money would compromise everyone and likely only 1/2 would show up. What are you going to rake out that game? 1 or 2 dollars, thats going to be 30ish or 60ish bucks an hour, thats just about the max buy in, the game couldn't fade 3 hours. I smoke a brisket for about 25 hours typically, or pulled pork for 12, or I get brats from the German butcher, I have hard alcohol, premium beer, and at least 3 different soft drinks and bottled water. I've never asked for tips, although everyone encourages me to take a rake I simply wont in this game, however I will accept unsolicited tips. Lets play 1/2 PLO no max buy-in with 'players' and I'll rake it with no qualms about it, I play in multiple raked games weekly.

I would encourage you think about it and pick one side or the other, you'll get no judgement from me.

 

[Dugthefish]

Tournaments are easier to recoup costs. When I run a $50 tournament, players get 10,000 in chips. Then I do a $10 add on for another 5000 chips. I make it clear that the add on does not go towards prize pool, but is to cover costs. It is 100% voluntarily but almost everyone goes for it because everyone else is going for it.

Cash games, I just hope I get enough in tips to cover food/alcohol expenditures (usually comes close).

 

[Zajac]

I know all of my players personally and never charge to host a game. I provide food and soft drinks....players bring their own alcohol because there is such a variety. The benefits of hosting include, my rules, no driving home at 3am, I get to pick the food etc. When I cash everyone out at the end of the night, winners usually throw something my way but I never ask (they cash out only $150 instead of $158 for example), They see what I put out and are grateful that I host. I probably spend $50 or so to host and I usually get at least half of it back. Everyone is happy with the arrangement.

 

[softchewy]

it's illegal to host games of chance if money is involved.

fyi.. poker is a game of skill, not chance..
I found this out by playing against people who actually know how to play the game

 

[Machine]

fyi.. poker is a game of skill, not chance..
I found this out by playing against people who actually know how to play the game

come play with my group, none of them are afraid to put it in (1200) on a draw, all at the same time, try fading 8 way action in PLO with AAs suited for stacks.

Last night I get a guy betting into me for 300 with the nuts on the turn.
Villian - - Leads out for 300 - like an 8 high diamond draw
Hero - - calls




I know what you're thinking, re-pot he folds - 100% he doesn't.

 

[softchewy]

come play with my group, none of them are afraid to put it in (1200) on a draw, all at the same time, try fading 8 way action in PLO with AAs suited for stacks.

Last night I get a guy betting into me for 300 with the nuts on the turn.
Villian - - Leads out for 300 - like an 8 high diamond draw
Hero - - calls




I know what you're thinking, re-pot he folds - 100% he doesn't.

I stand corrected

 

[grebe]

Hi all,

Is it common to ask for some house fee in a home tournament? And if yes, how much?

For example is it a certain percentage of the entire pot? Or is it a percentage of only the buy-ins? Or a separate amount altogether?

Thx for any tips!
Alex

No, it's not common. My advice is don't do it. Find what you are comfortable with supplying and do that. If it's nothing, that's fine. If it's all out, do that. Don't do it for other players, do it because you want to.

As a frequent player at many people's houses, let me say that I have been to all kinds of setups. I will play damn near anywhere as long as a couple things are met:
1) the people are friendly
2) the game is legit and rules are followed. Once shady things start happening, I am out.
3) no indoor smoking

Anything on top of this is awesome and well appreciated by me, but unnecessary. I bring my own food and drinks, but appreciate when a host puts on something.

***also let me point out that I am DEFINITELY NOT opposed to paying for a game (many people are firmly against it). I just think that you are sliding down a slippery slope when you try to recoup money you are putting in to hosting and it's very solid advice to not go down this road.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Pssh. Why would I charge people for having so much fun.

 

[Gobbs]

Just make sure you only invite people you can beat on a regular basis. That way, you don't have to do anything illegal and still make a profit.

I'm kidding, of course....kind of.

 

[ava]

Cool to see so many responses! The opinions are quite divided I see.

I do want to add that in general I myself don't ask for anything when I host. I know everyone that joins personally and most of them are friends. We also don't have tournaments with "high" stakes, buy-in is often only 10 euros so even if I win the tournament it's not enough to recuperate, but that is not my goal, I'm in it for the fun times

But if the tournament is larger and there are people joining that I don't know, they generally feel bad to be emptying my fridge without giving me anything It's them asking me the option to give me something so I wasn't sure how to deal with that.

As you say, a structural fee will make it illegal, a donation is a good option indeed.

 

[BGinGA]

Just make sure you only invite people you can beat on a regular basis. That way, you don't have to do anything illegal and still make a profit.

I'm kidding, of course....kind of.

Must be why Roger never gets an invite.

Wait...you always invite ME.

 

[Gobbs]

Must be why Roger never gets an invite.

Wait...you always invite ME.

Well, isn't that interesting?!?!?

Or, maybe I'm just more focused on social aspects (and my sanity) than profits.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Everyone lives in different jurisdictions with different laws that apply. Everyone has different tolerances for skirting whatever laws there may be. Everyone has different motivations for hosting. It's good to ask these questions and learn from everyone's experiences, but make sure you don't take anyone's advice at face value - you have to make these sorts of decisions taking your own circumstances into consideration.

For me, I would charge my poker players exactly the same amount that I would charge people coming over to my house to hang out and watch the Superbowl with me.

... or I guess in your case the World Cup.

 

[sambeckett89]

World cup might be a bring your own beer kinda deal I would basically tell them they're free to bring their own alcohol or they can donate a bit to cover the cost of what you've spent hosting. Is still cheaper than going to any bar, you get to hang with friends and heck, maybe you take it down!

 

[Cowthulhu]

I live in CO where it's taking a cut to pay for food/drink is a grey area, and taking any more than that is illegal. Personally, I feel like providing food and drink is just sortof a cost of doing business - in the abstract it's unfair that the host has to bear the cost, but that's just the way things shake out and in most cases you're hopefully getting your moneys worth in entertainment. When I host a board game night, I always have snacks but that's just a cost of hosting a nice night with friends. Plus - unless you're playing huge games, the risk of going to jail would likely not be worth the income from taking a fee.

Just my two cents though! Different people will have different tolerances for risk, and different social dynamics.

 

[DontKnowWhen]

At our monthly (cash) home game, the host provides chips, snacks, soda, water etc. in an amount up to their comfort level. We all chip in (outside the poker buy-in) for pizza, wings, or whatever else is being delivered. As some drink and some don't, its BYOB.