Missouri Poker Room? (2 Viewers)

[Jers28]

Does anyone know the legality of a poker room in Missouri? I’m very interested in opening one. I understand I can’t take a rake, which is fine. I’ve done a significant amount of digging and can’t find anything prohibiting a “country club” style poker room. In other words, charge a membership fee, even if it’s a one day membership. I’d have varying levels of memberships, so someone who’s passing through could sit and play, but regular players could accumulate “rewards”. I’ve got a zillion ideas on what those rewards would look like. For example, buy ins to the bigger tournaments, etc.

Here’s the weird part, if you will. I’m not concerned with it being profitable. If it simply pays for itself, I’d be totally cool with that. I want to build atmosphere like I have in my home games away from my home, legally. In other words…

Premium and I do mean premium…

Poker tables
Chairs
Poker chips
Cards
Dealers
Ambiance (like having a masseuse available for shoulder/neck rubs)
Etc…above all
SECURITY

I am not looking for some barn outside of town or extra garage/storage building adjacent to the main property, etc that I’ve seen done in my area. Those places have been dank and a bit scary, as they’ve been illegal for starters. One had an open bar and charged a rake. While it was great for action, when I’d leave with large sums of cash, I frequently heard “am I going to get shot” voices in my head. You don’t hear about these types of things happening as often these days as we used to 20 years ago, but I want as close to zero chance that happens as possible. That means right in front of everyone with security on staff, imo.

In other words, I want to build a card room I wish was available for me to play in on the reg. My primary business is and shall remain my primary income.

Anyway, apologies for rambling, but if anyone has any thoughts, whether it’s specific to my home state or not, I’d love to hear them.

 

[ChipMonster]

I think you’d have to follow Texas model where they have card rooms essentially set to charge for time access? It probably comes down to if they want to close it down they will because in the end you’re facilitating a gambling facility. Maybe someone here has more insight because I’d be interested to learn more as well.

 

[Jers28]

I think you’d have to follow Texas model where they have card rooms essentially set to charge for time access? It probably comes down to if they want to close it down they will because in the end you’re facilitating a gambling facility. Maybe someone here has more insight because I’d be interested to learn more as well.

The Texas model is what I had in mind. The single day memberships is just another way of phrasing it, but agreed on all points. The “gambling facility” is the key to avoid. Since Missouri and 45 other states have recently set precedent by calling poker a skill game and allowing sites like WPT to offer cash games vis ClubWPT GOLD, they may have a tough time skirting both sides of the fence on the issue as long as I’m totally above board and don’t offer any “gambling” on site.

 

[BEANO52]

Not gonna fly in Missouri. They tried it, gaming raided it and still in court. . .

https://www.news-leader.com/story/n...be-into-possible-illegal-gambling/1710179001/

https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Why-did-police-raid-the-Club-House-in-Springfield-512656811.html

https://www.courts.mo.gov/cnet/case...mber=1931-CC00884&inputVO.courtId=CT31#docket

 

[ChipMonster]

Yeah I’m sure the casinos were behind the anonymous complaints if it threatens their own revenue. I’ve looked into options for Illinois as well and seems like as soon as you put any capital into development it is at risk. You can set it up as a social club, keep hands off money and chips as the club, not advertise and dollar values anywhere and rely on the players to manage all transactions and you’re just renting the space and providing amenities but at the end of the day they will still look at it as a gambling facility if they wanted to look at it. It’s essentially the same in Texas to my understanding but they’ve just collectively decided to turn a blind eye to a degree.

 

[Jers28]

Yeah I’m sure the casinos were behind the anonymous complaints if it threatens their own revenue. I’ve looked into options for Illinois as well and seems like as soon as you put any capital into development it is at risk. You can set it up as a social club, keep hands off money and chips as the club, not advertise and dollar values anywhere and rely on the players to manage all transactions and you’re just renting the space and providing amenities but at the end of the day they will still look at it as a gambling facility if they wanted to look at it. It’s essentially the same in Texas to my understanding but they’ve just collectively decided to turn a blind eye to a degree.

If I lived near any casinos, this would certainly scare the hell out of me. But, I’m 3 hours from KC and St. Louis. The closest casinos are the Indian casinos in Oklahoma. (Everyone calm down, I’m Cherokee and even I don’t know what else I'm suppose to call them). But, even those are 2 hours away and I’m not stealing anyone’s action. But, you’re absolutely right. If the big boys decided to squash me like the bug that I am, they certainly could and would.

 

[ChipMonster]

I think there are ways to do it but you just have to completely document everything and make sure all your t’s are dotted and I’s crossed so they say. I’d talk to a gaming attorney and see exactly what would trigger issues and how to cover yourself, that way if anything did come up at least you have a foundation in place. I think to be completely legit you can’t even have denominations on chips, can’t have the dealer push pots and never absolutely never handle money. Then you run into issues of who actually is maintaining that process? Some random at the table? How do buy ins and rebuys work? Like I said, I put a bit of effort into trying to find a solution myself and ultimately gave up.

 

[Jers28]

Not gonna fly in Missouri. They tried it, gaming raided it and still in court. . .

https://www.news-leader.com/story/n...be-into-possible-illegal-gambling/1710179001/

https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Why-did-police-raid-the-Club-House-in-Springfield-512656811.html

https://www.courts.mo.gov/cnet/case...mber=1931-CC00884&inputVO.courtId=CT31#docket

Thanks so much for this. This is maybe 10 mins from my house. No clue how I missed the story at the time. Crazy. So, it looks like they will likely never be convicted of anything, they will still lose their investment, which I’m sure was significant. That’s a shame. And going through the “proper channels” with the Missouri gaming board would likely take years, if not longer, as well as millions of dollars fed to the right pockets. Oh well. I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Jers28]

I do wonder if anything has changed with WPT just becoming legal this January. You have to play with their fake currency, which you pay for with real money and then can freely exchange back to cash anytime you like and have transferred back to your bank, so I fail to see the difference, minus the millions of dollars they had to grease the wheels.

 

[ChipMonster]

Yeah I thought about that too because we have the sweepstakes model online in IL too. However, it is being challenged in courts currently.

 

[Jers28]

I suppose in the mean time, there are worse places to play than my home

 

[BadKarma]

You'd also have the Hershends to deal with. They stopped the Riverboat on Table Rock and Taneycomo! And that was a state wide vote.

Yes, I'm down near Branson.