Tourney Discussion on Mystery Bounty Payout “Structures” (1 Viewer)

[TheRealStephen12]

Disclaimer: The biggest buy-in Mystery Bounty Tournament was $1.10 on Global Poker, and had 300-something players. I just really like the math and have thought extensively about them.

Mystery bounty tournaments are structured in several ways, and there are four parts to mystery bounty “structures” which can determine how it plays: the percentage of prize money devoted to bounties, how many players make it to the bounty stage, and the bounty payout “structure” itself.

First is the percentage of prize money devoted to bounties. From what I’ve seen, most online tournaments usually have a 50/50 split between the main prize pool and the bounty pool. In terms of major live tournaments, usually 30-40% of prize money is paid out as mystery bounties, though the Irish Open also had a 50/50 split.

The number of players who make the bounty stage is probably the most important factor. A lot of home games (at least those mentioned on the forum) give some bounty for every knockout. For casino/series tournaments, they do not (therefore having larger bounty prizes for those who make it to the bounty stage). This varies between tournaments, but bounties can be in play prior to the bubble bursting (like Triton or the €3K EPT MB does when the bubble bursts during day 2), on the bubble (like most online tournaments or tournaments when day 1 plays down to the money), or after the bubble (like the WSOP Mystery Millions often is).

The last part is how they determine the bounty prizes. The most straightforward way is to use the mirror mystery bounty structure, which has a bounty prize equal to each standard payout (so if the prizes were $50, $30, and $20, there would be a $50, $30, and $20 mystery bounty). The WSOP MM and Wynn tournament series usually have 2-2.5x jumps between values ( a 1, 2.5, 5 structure, multiplied by powers of 10). The most recently reported €3K EPT MB used the absurd €1K, €2K, €10K, €25K, €40K, and €75K prizes. Online, PokerStars usually has one top bounty, 2 about a 3rd of that, then roughly 1/7th, 2/7ths, and 4/7ths, of the remaining bounties as the bottom three values. Usually, the 2/7ths are about 2.5x the buy-in, and 4/7ths about 1/2 the buy-in. I believe 888 uses a similar structure, GG has many more unique bounty prizes, and Global Poker (which I play on) uses the mirror structure.

To add to this, some tournaments, such as the €3K EPT and the WSOP MM, have more than one top prize, even if there are not as many of the smaller prizes below it. The MM has had 2 $1M bounties the last 2 years, and only one each of the $500K and $250K. One of the €3K EPT MBs held in Monte Carlo featured three €75K bounties, and only 2 €40K bounties.

My thoughts on all of this:

I like the idea that more money goes to the prize pool than the mystery bounties. It helps to make sure the eventual winner wins more than the top bounty is worth. One-third is a good ratio, because it still makes bounties worth playing for, prioritizing winning bounties instead of making small pay jumps.

For how many players make the bounty stage, it should be at least as many as make the money, if not more. In the WSOP MM, where only 15% of players end ITM, why should so many fewer players not get to draw for the bounties, which is the allure of the tournament in the first place? If the bubble bursts going into or during day 2, then making bounties start then is a good way to measure it. Online, having as many bounties as players ITM is probably the most fair way to do it, unless you set a specific percentage of players who make the bounty stage ahead of time.

Now for my favorite part, the math. Firstly, only one top bounty. If you have more money left over, either increase the top bounty or increase the number or other large prizes. For example, the MM should either make a $2M bounty, or increase the number of $500K and $250K bounties.

The latter is absolutely the correct move in my opinion, since it only offers 1 each of the $500K and $250K. There should always be an equal or smaller number of a larger bounty than the one smaller than it.

I also prefer a smaller number of unique values. When the Irish Open ran a mirror mystery bounty last April, there were 24 unique prizes to draw with only 183 total bounties. I think this is a mistake, it just feels to confusing if pulling slowly like bending the crap out of baccarat cards. Just make a few bounty prizes and more of them.

Lastly, like increasing percentage pay jumps (like 20-30-50 having a 50% and 67% jump between prizes), I think it’s best when prizes have a flat or escalating percentage increase between them (like the 1, 2.5, 5 or something similar).

As a side note, I played around with a $40+20 bounty structure, and found that $40-60-100-300 for tournaments with 3 tables (with 1/5 making the bounty stage) worked very well. Say 30 players, having 2x $40, 2x $60, 1x $100 and 1x $300 offers plenty of variety for each draw. Just a starting point if any of you try a MB tournament.

If any of you made it this far and have any other opinions, I’m mostly just curious what people think works well and would be most interesting format for you to play.

 

[drdr]

Cool overview, thanks. Learnt a bit since I had assumed casinos also pay for every knockout. I find that a better system as it caters more to fun and rec players. If have to make it ITM to get a bounty then may as well play a standard tourney. That's just my opinion, though. I think there is merit for players to win back part of their buyin via bounties if they don't reach the money.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

Cool overview, thanks. Learnt a bit since I had assumed casinos also pay for every knockout. I find that a better system as it caters more to fun and rec players. If have to make it ITM to get a bounty then may as well play a standard tourney. That's just my opinion, though. I think there is merit for players to win back part of their buyin via bounties if they don't reach the money.

The main casino appeal is the huge return without having to go the distance. The 2024 WSOP MM had two MB $1M winners, and the top prize was only $1M. You could get lucky on the first hand of day 2 and pull a $1M bounty. It’s like winning the tournament without even earning $2,000 from a regular payout.

 

[drdr]

The main casino appeal is the huge return without having to go the distance. The 2024 WSOP MM had two MB $1M winners, and the top prize was only $1M. You could get lucky on the first hand of day 2 and pull a $1M bounty. It’s like winning the tournament without even earning $2,000 from a regular payout.

Makes sense in that context. An interesting approach for casinos may be a hybrid approach; min bounty before ITM, then mystery/random when ITM.

This is the great thing about home games. We can all do it the way we want.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

So I've been thinking about ways to do things with those who want even MOAR degen surrounding their poker tournaments.

1. Buying mystery bounties. Say 1/4 players make the bounty stage. Why not allow players pre-buy a bounty for 4x the bounty amount? If you run something like $30+10, everybody could buy a bounty for $40. It can also juice the bounty pool, allowing for bigger bounties to play for. In the previous example, if you played a freezeout and half of your players wanted a guarantee draw from the bounty pool, it would triple the amount of bounties, raising the value to equal with the regular prize pool.

2. All prizes are mysteries. Say you pay 1/4 players and the same number make the money and bounty stages. You want to award 1/4 of the prizes as bounties, and the remaining 3/4 as a standard prize pool. With 20 players and $40 buy-ins, that makes $800 total, paid to 5 players. Your payout structure could look something like:

1st: 5 draws (+own bounty)
2nd: 4 draws
3rd: 3 draws
4th: 2 draws
5th: 1 draw
Bounty: 1 draw

Interestingly, it plays exactly like a regular bounty tournament, because even if you draw early bounties, the prizes are still the same relative to each other at any given point in the tournament.

If anybody tries either of these, please let me know because I'd be curious how it goes.

 

[buzzmonkey]

In my annual mystery bounty we do it this way:

• $80 buy-in.
• 25% of the buy-in goes to the bounty pool ($20).
• Bounties range from $10 to up to $100 depending on the number of players.
• Once the late reg is over, I put the bounties into a basket. I have a table on my payout calculator that I reference to determine how many of each bounty goes into the basket.
• I use plastic break-away balls that contain a slip of paper with the bounty amount in it.
• Players may choose to pull a bounty right away (once late reg has ended), or may wait as late as they want until the end of the tourney.
• Winner of the tournament pulls their own bounty.

I used to use envelopes with the cash in them for the bounties but it was a bit harder to randomize. The breakaway balls make it a bit more fun for the players and it's easier to scramble them up before each pull.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

In my annual mystery bounty we do it this way:

• $80 buy-in.
• 25% of the buy-in goes to the bounty pool ($20).
• Bounties range from $10 to up to $100 depending on the number of players.
• Once the late reg is over, I put the bounties into a basket. I have a table on my payout calculator that I reference to determine how many of each bounty goes into the basket.
• I use plastic break-away balls that contain a slip of paper with the bounty amount in it.
• Players may choose to pull a bounty right away (once late reg has ended), or may wait as late as they want until the end of the tourney.
• Winner of the tournament pulls their own bounty.

I used to use envelopes with the cash in them for the bounties but it was a bit harder to randomize. The breakaway balls make it a bit more fun for the players and it's easier to scramble them up before each pull.

So is every player left post-rebuy worth a bounty or you only put the bounties in after the rebuy period but there aren’t that many bounties?

 

[buzzmonkey]

So is every player left post-rebuy worth a bounty or you only put the bounties in after the rebuy period but there aren’t that many bounties?

Everyone is eligible for a bounty. I just wait until late reg is over to make sure I have the correct bounties in the basket. If I put the bounties in play early and then more people show up, I may have to start opening bounties to see if I need to remove or change anything.