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Clear bait and switch for the win… (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jers28
- Start date
I purchased a shuffle tech shuffler from @Jers28. He was great to work with and shipped it out within a day. Great communication. I would not hesitate to do another transaction with him.
....wait..why in the fuck is anyone throwing away chips..... These are a commodity!
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Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
OP
OP
I like where your head is at, sir.
OP
OP
Good! This might be the first time I most definitely don’t want the win. lol
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
I'm confused can someone just answer these questions for me.
Did @PepperPaul represent that these are the chips @Jers28 was getting?
There's clearly two different colors based on top chips and anyone would reasonably assume these are two full racks of slightly different colors.
Furthermore the rack in the foreground does indeed appear to be minty, crispy, hella good, whatever you want to call it. There's also some green barrels further in the background.
@Jers28 shows this as received after cleaning and much work:
Shown are 240 chips. Top left of first pic is approximately 33 "other" greens and another "other" green are top rightmost barrel. The rest are all the same green - call it "main" green and about 207 chips.
It's clear to me that "main" green matches the back rack in the two rack pic provided, further evidenced by them not matching the condition of the foreground rack, but that isn't really important.
If the first pic in this post was provided to @Jers28 showing chips he was getting AND
he didn't receive at least 100 chips of two different color green then this must be a "clear bait and switch..." as promised.
What else is there to know? @jers28s willingness to take some responsibility for not inspecting prior to milling and willingness to move on in general shouldn't change the fact that the bait and switch clearly happened if the first pic in this post was provided to @Jers28 showing chips he was getting.
How there's even a modicum of shade heading in @jers28s direction after trying to handle this off forum, giving grace time beyond a resolution timeline he didn't set and easy willingness to move on with his loss and posting mostly to warn the community at large of a scammer is baffling to me.
--Diz
Did @PepperPaul represent that these are the chips @Jers28 was getting?
There's clearly two different colors based on top chips and anyone would reasonably assume these are two full racks of slightly different colors.
Furthermore the rack in the foreground does indeed appear to be minty, crispy, hella good, whatever you want to call it. There's also some green barrels further in the background.
@Jers28 shows this as received after cleaning and much work:
Shown are 240 chips. Top left of first pic is approximately 33 "other" greens and another "other" green are top rightmost barrel. The rest are all the same green - call it "main" green and about 207 chips.
It's clear to me that "main" green matches the back rack in the two rack pic provided, further evidenced by them not matching the condition of the foreground rack, but that isn't really important.
If the first pic in this post was provided to @Jers28 showing chips he was getting AND
he didn't receive at least 100 chips of two different color green then this must be a "clear bait and switch..." as promised.
What else is there to know? @jers28s willingness to take some responsibility for not inspecting prior to milling and willingness to move on in general shouldn't change the fact that the bait and switch clearly happened if the first pic in this post was provided to @Jers28 showing chips he was getting.
How there's even a modicum of shade heading in @jers28s direction after trying to handle this off forum, giving grace time beyond a resolution timeline he didn't set and easy willingness to move on with his loss and posting mostly to warn the community at large of a scammer is baffling to me.
--Diz
Yes, I believe so.
There are still about 100 chips that @Jers28 does not show in his latest pics. He says they were trash and he threw them away. Without seeing them, we have no way of knowing if they are in fact trash, or are the missing 60+ day green (?) chips from the front rack in the seller's pics.
Did you read the transcripts of the DMs? Seller pretty clearly laid out that the chips didn't match in color, and that about 140 of them were in less than ideal condition.
Furthermore, @Jers28 claims that "every single chip" required massive amounts of work to clean up, yet has still provided no photographic evidence of such damage. He stated that every chip looked like it had been hit with a belt sander, or something similar. That's not something that can be cleaned up. Why hasn't he shown ANY face pics of all this damage? Because honestly, the pics he did provide, all edge pics, show more than two racks of excellent condition chips. Which is EXACTLY what seller claims he sent.
Is it possible that @PepperPaul is a scammer and sent misrepresented chips? Absolutely possible. It it proven? Absolutely not. With no visual evidence of @Jers28 claims, we only have his word. I'm not willing to convict @PepperPaul of scamming only on the basis of one person's word, with no visual evidence.
BPTDirector
Full House
Did we ever hear from the milling person about what their take on chip condition was when they received them? I agree that 100% of burden of proof does not, and will probably never happen, but there is a third party involved here. Maybe that person has photos.
I just dont know why people think Jers28 would lie about what he said, he has tens of thousands of dollars worth of chips so to accuse someone over a hundred or two would not make sense. Its not like he is starting drama for no reason.
upNdown
Royal Flush
He already told you the answer to that - he was pissed that he got ghosted. And I don’t blame him for being upset about that.
I'm not saying he's lying. I'm saying he hasn't shown any significant evidence of his claims. In his original post, he showed pics of exactly 5 chips. Both buyer and seller have agreed that up to 140 of the chips sent were not in great condition, so it's not even a little bit surprising that there might be 5 chips that looked like the ones in those pics.
Then with exasperation, he agreed to "dig out the chips" to provide more pics. But then he takes and posts only edges pics, with over 200 chips that look to be in excellent condition. And expects that to be convincing evidence that @PepperPaul is a scammer? C'mon, how are any of you buying this?
So why is @Jers28 seemingly being deceptive? I have no idea, other that his anger over being ghosted. If almost every chip was damaged, why not show us the damage?
I may eventually be proven wrong, but at this point @PepperPaul is the one that is being forthcoming and providing the more believable story. Yes, it's a bad look that he went dark for several weeks, but also, this is a hobby, not "real life." This was a $650 transaction, not $6k or $60K. While certainly frustrating to the buyer, I'm willing to cut anybody some slack when personal issues keep them off the forum for an extended time period.
He got ghosted trying to resolve a problem he had little reason to invent.
For sure not the chips at all, they were your run of the mill used, flea bit, and played heavily green chips (nothing wrong with that in general). I didn't have the context of the condition that Jers had bought them unfortunately so I thought nothing of it. But a lesson learned for the both of us moving forward and for any of my customers that I work with in the future. Jers has been amazing to work with back and forth on this issue and a shame that this happened to someone like him.
This whole scenario is basic application of Occam's Razor.
Scenario A) @PepperPaul scammed. Cole and Jeremy didn’t think to verify condition. Jeremy is just disgusted by the situation and wanted to move on so doesn’t have all the pics.
Scenario B) Jeremy after completing tens of thousands in transactions decides to make a move on a low value transaction adverse to a chipper he has had little to no interaction with. He hatches a plan with Cole where he’ll claim all the chips are meh and not mint. Then he’ll privately try to resolve the scenario with Paul in the hopes that vehement denials aren’t immediate, there’s no videos of packing and shipping etc. he’ll also try to amicably resolve the issue and give more time than paul asked before posting publicly. But once he does he won’t to try to recoup a couple of hundred bucks…. He just wanted to sully the reputation of 1 random relatively inactive chipper and warn other chippers to be more careful in general and with this seller specifically.
Scenario C) cole had similar condition similar color green chips to those in the pics and really wanted the minty green starburst that paul shipped from the pic. He was sure Jermey didn’t have pics of all chips or paul didn’t have a video packing and he masterminded this whole scenario to upgrade 1 green rack of starbursts for a better one. Jeremy and Paul are only pawns in Cole’s game and after years? Of dutiful milling service to the chipping community he finally allowed his evil plan to get 1 mint green starburst rack come to light.
As many of us are poker players we especially shouldn’t need a smoking gun to put a story together.
LotsOfChips
Flush
Maybe one of them is slow playing us...?
It’s also true that sometimes when the story doesn’t make sense it’s not a bluff…. It’s quads.
@dizzyChipper Cool story bro. Lots of interesting conjecture. I prefer to deal in facts.
@pokercole states "they were your run of the mill used, flea bit, and played heavily green chips..."
But the photo that @Jers28 posted doesn't support that claim. It shows over 200 sharp chips with maybe 6-8 having noticeable flea bites.
@pokercole states "they were your run of the mill used, flea bit, and played heavily green chips..."
But the photo that @Jers28 posted doesn't support that claim. It shows over 200 sharp chips with maybe 6-8 having noticeable flea bites.
BarrieJ3
Royal Flush
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this didn’t need 7 pages
I will say this. It’s probably not a good idea to get work done on chips you’ve never physically handled if you’re expecting a certain level of quality (particularly very good or “mint” condition). Had @Jers28 received the chips himself, he could verify the condition before moving forward. If they aren’t what he was expecting, work the terms out to return. Failure to work that out would then result in a thread like this.
Pics can be easily manipulated with filters and such. If I were looking for very good or “mint” condition, I don’t really care about a pic. That’s all subjective anyway so I don’t really value either side’s opinions on that.
I do appreciate @Jers28 for trying to help the community by attempting to point out what he thinks is a bad apple. Conversely, I respect the fact that @PepperPaul is defending himself. All I take from this that a lack of communication and transparency can be very problematic when dealing with individuals that you don’t know.
Too many variables at this point to figure out the correct answer. I hope you guys can come to a resolution that is fitting for the both of you.
Pics can be easily manipulated with filters and such. If I were looking for very good or “mint” condition, I don’t really care about a pic. That’s all subjective anyway so I don’t really value either side’s opinions on that.
I do appreciate @Jers28 for trying to help the community by attempting to point out what he thinks is a bad apple. Conversely, I respect the fact that @PepperPaul is defending himself. All I take from this that a lack of communication and transparency can be very problematic when dealing with individuals that you don’t know.
Too many variables at this point to figure out the correct answer. I hope you guys can come to a resolution that is fitting for the both of you.
upNdown
Royal Flush
Ha! Yup.It’s also true that sometimes when the story doesn’t make sense it’s not a bluff…. It’s quads.
“Oh shit, that makes sense.”
PepperPaul
Pair
I literally offered Jers a full refund in my first post to this thread.It’s also true that sometimes when the story doesn’t make sense it’s not a bluff…. It’s quads.
Jer’s response? No thanks, these chips are too nice to send back to you!
He also said he’s going to end up with chips he’ll be proud to felt.
We’re just going to ignore that he was able to do this with dog shit chips that “looked like all the faces were hit with a belt sander”?
Did you even look at the crispy edges of the chips he posted? Or how about the fact that he said he threw out all the bad chips, but the only 5 bad chips he took photos of in the beginning are all together and still has them in the racks of the after pics.
Jers posted this yesterday:
But he “dug the chips out of storage” to take pics yesterday. So he still has these chips in addition to the 240 he posted pics of yesterday. It’s all just not adding up. It’s hard to keep lies straight.
PepperPaul
Pair
This is Jers original photo and his new “cleaned chip” photo with 4 of the 5 bad chips all together and accounted for. The 5th one is also in the photo but not next to these four. He allegedly threw out all the bad chips, but not these chips? He kept the one that doesn’t match any of the others in color, and the one with two massive gouges in it? He also went through all the work of scraping, cleaning these in an ultrasonic cleaner, hand cleaning, but all four of these chips stayed together? I’ve cleaned lots of chips and there’s no way those four chips stay together through the process. Unless they’re the only bad ones in the batch so you keep them together on purpose. C’mon bro.
Attachments
ekricket
Royal Flush
It looks like he will start drama for any reason. I’m seeing a bigger pattern here and elsewhere
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
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