Buyer Beware

horseshoez

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Just a little bit of a heads up on recent dealings with a PCF member.

I recently purchased six Matsui racks from @johnnycnote via a Wanted Ad in the classifieds. I was not informed that they were heavily used. That part was on me in not asking specifically what condition they were in, however I still feel that a seller has half the obligation to disclose that.

Receive the racks, scratched up all over, tape residue on the ends, cracks on multiple cracks, and long hazy marks along the length of the channels. I relay it to the seller along with a couple of options including me paying half return shipping, seller simply states that cracks must have been from USPS mishandling while ignoring comments on scratches etc. The seller says he will initiate a claim with USPS and that he would need a couple days to dig up their real value or receipts. Mind you, total purchase of $51 for six racks shipped. Calculating the value can’t be that difficult. I agree for the sake of letting it go and let him file the claim.

Days go by, no response and my conscience isn’t resting about the fact that he’s trying to avoid any and all responsibility for his failure to disclose or admit to the usage of the racks. I send a message and the reply is, “so now the racks are hazy? As agreed earlier still waiting on the USPS claim.”

Im sorry but does USPS have cats opening and inspecting their packages making multiple scratches on the items inside before sealing them with a “meow” signaling the package is clear?!?!

Point is, people need to be aware of this sort of behavior from a seller and should ask questions prior to finalizing a purchase. Seller’s should for one disclose as much info as possible and at least try to claim responsibility for undisclosed issues.

...and now, some pr0n
 

horseshoez

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Lemonzest

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Just my 2c but I really don't like these threads. It just isn't thread worthy. These scenarios are the reason the feedback system exists. Personally, I think people don't leave enough negative feedback. Negative feedback doesn't mean the person is a scammer it just means you didn't like the interaction for whatever reason.

I'd say leave him a negative feedback and move on.
 

Moxie Mike

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Can you post a link to the original ad?

It's clear you feel misled about the condition of the products you received. Did you see pictures at any point before committing to buy?
 

horseshoez

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Just my 2c but I really don't like these threads. It just isn't thread worthy. These scenarios are the reason the feedback system exists. Personally, I think people don't leave enough negative feedback. Negative feedback doesn't mean the person is a scammer it just means you didn't like the interaction for whatever reason.

I'd say leave him a negative feedback and move on.

Was inclined to do so and just stick to feedback, however when a person clearly deflects any and all wrongdoing or any answers to questions by claiming not his or her fault, kinda deserves the thread if you ask me. It’s one thing to leave feedback for something that didn’t go so well, and another when someone just talks to you like you were born yesterday.

Appreciate the 2c however I will not be depositing them in my suggestions bank.

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Moxie Mike

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Personally, I think people don't leave enough negative feedback. Negative feedback doesn't mean the person is a scammer it just means you didn't like the interaction for whatever reason.

I'd say leave him a negative feedback and move on.

So what is thread-worthy then in your estimation? How negative does the experience have to be in order to take it to the next step?

In what way do people 'not leave enough negative feedback'?
 

Moxie Mike

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Pic received, and not a very telling one either. I’d be even tempted to say I’m not so sure it’s the same racks I received lol

Those look pretty much new from this one picture, even when zooming in. In your discussions, were they represented as such?

The pics you posted looks to show at least some wear (probably from normal use). If they're were damaged in transit that's a reasonable thing to happen to acrylic racks (I've personally had them arrive completed shattered despite careful packaging). If that's indeed the case and the seller wants to resolve the issue by filing an insurance claim, that's reasonable but the seller is also obligated to prove he's done so within a reasonable amount of time. Failing that, negative feedback is warranted.

From what's been presented it would seem you have a legitimate complaint but I'm not sure what starting this thread is meant to accomplish. Alerting other members to a poor transactor is a noble gesture... but as @Lemonzest already noted - that's what the feedback system is for.
 

SixSpeedFury

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To be fair (and not taking any sides, just speaking from my own experience), Matsui racks are fragile as fuck. I remember when I was getting the plaques with their racks, they would come broken, as the packaging wasn't the best. The ones that were salvageable and intact I offered to sell to members that bought the plaques, and even after bubblewrapping the shit out of them, they still managed to get to some of the PCFers damaged.
 

Lemonzest

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So what is thread-worthy then in your estimation? How negative does the experience have to be in order to take it to the next step?

In what way do people 'not leave enough negative feedback'?

These threads just don't lead anywhere. One person throws stones then the accused shows up and starts slinging mud. It doesn't accomplish anything. There is already a feature to deal with this type of stuff and it is the feedback tool.

If someone outright scams you then by all means create a thread to warn people.

In regards to not leaving enough negative feedback, I mean people should be more liberal with their negative feedback. People will bitch and complain in comments but then not actually leave a feedback which is negative. I just think in general people are too scared to leave a negative feedback and they should be handed out more liberally. If you aren't happy then document it with the feedback tool which only helps serve everyone to make informed decisions going forward.
 

horseshoez

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Those look pretty much new from this one picture, even when zooming in. In your discussions, were they represented as such?

The pics you posted looks to show at least some wear (probably from normal use). If they're were damaged in transit that's a reasonable thing to happen to acrylic racks (I've personally had them arrive completed shattered despite careful packaging). If that's indeed the case and the seller wants to resolve the issue by filing an insurance claim, that's reasonable but the seller is also obligated to prove he's done so within a reasonable amount of time. Failing that, negative feedback is warranted.

From what's been presented it would seem you have a legitimate complaint but I'm not sure what starting this thread is meant to accomplish. Alerting other members to a poor transactor is a noble gesture... but as @Lemonzest already noted - that's what the feedback system is for.

What really led me to post the thread was the blatant deflection of the other issues I stated which was, heavily scratched and hazy. Sure, I don’t mind buying used product aware of their condition but to charge me a price that basically would cover the cost of a brand new or barely used rack for ones that have tape residue all over, scratched up, hazy etc. How do you justify that part paired with denying they were ever like that. Like I said, post office has cats for inspectors and they left in superb condition lol

Each person has their own opinion on what warrants posting a thread and in my own, a seller deflecting in that manner deserves one. Feedback is something that is rarely looked at by many on here simply because we go by the honor system. Give your word and stick to it when it comes to your goods. Shouldn’t be difficult to just void a transaction, especially one that is a mere fraction of what we usually spend on here. That sort of transnational respect comes before $$$.
 

horseshoez

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These threads just don't lead anywhere. One person throws stones then the accused shows up and starts slinging mud. It doesn't accomplish anything. There is already a feature to deal with this type of stuff and it is the feedback tool.

If someone outright scams you then by all means create a thread to warn people.

In regards to not leaving enough negative feedback, I mean people should be more liberal with their negative feedback. People will bitch and complain in comments but then not actually leave a feedback which is negative. I just think in general people are too scared to leave a negative feedback and they should be handed out more liberally.

It’s one thing to go the feedback approach and another when you have multiple people that message you saying, I kind of wish you didn’t buy from that person because I’ve been bit too. Nuff said.
 

Lemonzest

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It’s one thing to go the feedback approach and another when you have multiple people that message you saying, I kind of wish you didn’t buy from that person because I’ve been bit too. Nuff said.

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. The point of feedback is so everyone knows to beware and YES people DO check it. If someone has 1 or 2 or 3 negative feedbacks then I know to be careful with that person. It serves as a warning to everyone and avoids people having to send you PMs after the fact.

If it is worth creating a thread to call out the person then it is wroth leaving a negative feedback. If your interaction really was that bad then please leave a feedback as this thread will be lost in a matter of days.
 

MrWitti

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Regarding residue on pic 1. if thats the only place, my look the same as thats how matsui ships their chips?
 

horseshoez

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Regarding residue on pic 1. if thats the only place, my look the same as thats how matsui ships their chips?

On the ends of every rack I received. Can be removed with GoofOff and some elbow grease. Scratches and haze of very heavy usage won’t though.
 

Marhault

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Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. The point of feedback is so everyone knows to beware and YES people DO check it. If someone has 1 or 2 or 3 negative feedbacks then I know to be careful with that person. It serves as a warning to everyone and avoids people having to send you PMs after the fact.

If it is worth creating a thread to call out the person then it is wroth leaving a negative feedback. If your interaction really was that bad then please leave a feedback as this thread will be lost in a matter of days.
I agree. The feedback system isn't used properly. Its difficult when its a thumbs up or thumbs down. Neutral feedback really doesn't affect anything, I don't even think it reduces your rating from 100%. I think a star rating system might be more appropriate especially when people seem so against negative feedback. I've had tons of good transactions, but I've had some that I would have probably given 4 stars instead of 5 and so on. It is what it is though, I've learned to be cautious about things that could be questionable. Some sellers I'll buy from with zero thought though. I know either through past transactions, detailed pics or whatever that the transaction is going to be solid.
 

horseshoez

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Just my 2c but I really don't like these threads. It just isn't thread worthy. These scenarios are the reason the feedback system exists. Personally, I think people don't leave enough negative feedback. Negative feedback doesn't mean the person is a scammer it just means you didn't like the interaction for whatever reason.

I'd say leave him a negative feedback and move on.

I just remembered that I also didn’t specifically ask in the OP what Lemonzest thought of these type of threads and if he would grace it with his presence to enlighten us with the wisdom of “Chipping Feedback.” I cant remember it ever being written in there or me actually GAF for when it was bestowed on us.

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Lemonzest

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I just remembered that I also didn’t specifically ask in the OP what Lemonzest thought of these type of threads and if he would grace it with his presence to enlighten us with the wisdom of “Chipping Feedback.” I cant remember it ever being written in there or me actually GAF for when it was bestowed on us.

Like I said just giving my 2c. You do you.
 

Lemonzest

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I agree. The feedback system isn't used properly. Its difficult when its a thumbs up or thumbs down. Neutral feedback really doesn't affect anything, I don't even think it reduces your rating from 100%. I think a star rating system might be more appropriate especially when people seem so against negative feedback. I've had tons of good transactions, but I've had some that I would have probably given 4 stars instead of 5 and so on. It is what it is though, I've learned to be cautious about things that could be questionable. Some sellers I'll buy from with zero thought though. I know either through past transactions, detailed pics or whatever that the transaction is going to be solid.

Yeah I totally agree with the star idea. There have been many times where I received chips that I felt like were not in as good condition as discussed. For example, someone calls them "mint" but they show up with a few flea bites. It was probably not malicious on their part and "mint" is a bit subjective. While I wasn't happy I also didn't want to leave them a negative feedback as that seems too harsh.

Or maybe the chips show up but dealing with the person is a PITA and they don't communicate well. I mean if the chips show up then good enough, I wouldn't give them a negative feedback but using the star system you could give them 2 or 3 stars or something just to show that it was less than ideal.
 

12thMan

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@Lemonzest , you get a lot of shit around here (I’ve put together that you made the SB chips and some people don’t agree with what happened after that? I’m so out of the damn loop. Beautiful chips though!) and you always come back with a funny or level headed/non confrontational response, it’s kind of impressive to see. Lol there could be a drama thread every day if you wanted to pitch a fit, but you take it and move on. I wish I had that amount of self control. ;)

Not choosing sides at all, and not putting my opinion in here, I just thought @horseshoez post starting with how he had forgot he hadn’t asked for your opinion was kind of funny and then of course you come back with a “meh” response. You never take the bait.

I should do some research, I am a little interested now to know if @Lemonzest actually is the anti christ....he seems like a chill dude.
 

horseshoez

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@Lemonzest , you get a lot of shit around here (I’ve put together that you made the SB chips and some people don’t agree with what happened after that? I’m so out of the damn loop. Beautiful chips though!) and you always come back with a funny or level headed/non confrontational response, it’s kind of impressive to see. Lol there could be a drama thread every day if you wanted to pitch a fit, but you take it and move on. I wish I had that amount of self control. ;)

Not choosing sides at all, and not putting my opinion in here, I just thought @horseshoez post starting with how he had forgot he hadn’t asked for your opinion was kind of funny and then of course you come back with a “meh” response. You never take the bait.

I should do some research, I am a little interested now to know if @Lemonzest actually is the anti christ....he seems like a chill dude.

Probably is, but internet communication has those caveats in that you never really know who the person really is and assume the tone simply from what is being said. I never threw any bait, I was just very blunt in explaining that the post was meant to be an informative one of a person that seems to do this over and over. I never went fishing at any point for perspective or feedback. Simply informing beyond the feedback system that not many rely on.
 

Lemonzest

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@Lemonzest , you get a lot of shit around here (I’ve put together that you made the SB chips and some people don’t agree with what happened after that? I’m so out of the damn loop. Beautiful chips though!) and you always come back with a funny or level headed/non confrontational response, it’s kind of impressive to see. Lol there could be a drama thread every day if you wanted to pitch a fit, but you take it and move on. I wish I had that amount of self control. ;)

Not choosing sides at all, and not putting my opinion in here, I just thought @horseshoez post starting with how he had forgot he hadn’t asked for your opinion was kind of funny and then of course you come back with a “meh” response. You never take the bait.

I should do some research, I am a little interested now to know if @Lemonzest actually is the anti christ....he seems like a chill dude.

haha thanks man. I am for sure not the anti-christ, people don't like me enough for that.

Life is too short. I just want to have fun, well that is my philosophy anyway.
 

BGinGA

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Are these your first Matsui racks? (legit question)

I ask because you've repeated the 'tape residue' issue more than once above, and Matsui ships chips in racks that are taped closed at the factory. Thus all Matsui racks will be in one of three conditions regarding the taped areas, once chips have been removed (regardless of use, wear, or other condition):
  • broken/cut tape on the racks if tape was cut/torn
  • tape residue on the racks if tape was removed
  • hazed area if tape residue was removed (or attempted)
No dog in this fight, but those are just the facts regarding Matsui racks in general, which are also very brittle to the point where it's luck of the draw whether or not they get damaged during shipping (regardless if full, empty, or how well packaged).

If unhappy with your purchase and subsequent dealings with the seller to have it rectified, leave negative feedback -- that's what it's there for.
 

horseshoez

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Are these your first Matsui racks? (legit question)

I ask because you've repeated the 'tape residue' issue more than once above, and Matsui ships chips in racks that are taped closed at the factory. Thus all Matsui racks will be in one of three conditions regarding the taped areas, once chips have been removed (regardless of use, wear, or other condition):
  • broken/cut tape on the racks if tape was cut/torn
  • tape residue on the racks if tape was removed
  • hazed area if tape residue was removed (or attempted)
No dog in this fight, but those are just the facts regarding Matsui racks in general, which are also very brittle to the point where it's luck of the draw whether or not they get damaged during shipping (regardless if full, empty, or how well packaged).

If unhappy with your purchase and subsequent dealings with the seller to have it rectified, leave negative feedback -- that's what it's there for.

Not my first and I’ve seen what normal residue looks like.

As for the other issues, I dont mind buying scratched up used racks, just tell me they are and I’ll pay accordingly. Very simply. I just don’t expect the USPS to be blamed for the issue entirely. That’s all. Here was my response to fix a very simple situation and I’ll leave it at that so it doesn’t drag into a multi page thread circling around minuscule stuff. Pretty diplomatic approach if you ask me,

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pltrgyst

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Not directly related to this case, and I've never had a problem with the tons of chips I've bought -- but I *always* take cell phone pics of every chip package I receive, whether there's any obvious damage or not, before opening. That can be important when filing a claim with USPS...
 

horseshoez

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It’s the principle that counts more so than the details. I’d make it right for someone even if it meant forking out $100 from my own pocket. Just a matter of being human and having common decency, that’s all.
 
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