Cash Game Breakdown for versatile chip set (2 Viewers)

[jbutler]

Grunching, but WAAAAAAAAY to many quarters.

 

[Nex]

Mosaics cost more than the Nile Club chips because they are a quality product.

Sounds like your best option for inexpensive temporary chips (until you upgrade to clays) is one of the decent slugged sets that sell for half of the Nile Club prices.

Check out any of the chips on the poker knights mold - Monaco, Poker Knights, Showdown, etc. They sell for around 16c each, and can even be cheaply relabeled if game security is a concern. They are lightyears ahead of common plastic ABS chips, in terms of looks, sound, and feel.

They would be much higher on my list of options for your application than Scrolls or Nile Clubs, and are cheaper to boot.

I do actually like the design of the Poker Knights, I did check them out when I was still deciding on what type of chips to take, but quality wise they don't convince me at all:

• sharp edges, tears, grates (at least the ones Hobbyphilic reviewed) and that's what I also absolutely hate with the old cheap plastic laser chips I have lying around. I want my chips to be absolutely smooth around the edges.
  
• stickers, which often aren't well centered, or can peel off, just like with the plastics I have. I'd rather prefer some slight color abrasion on ceramics than having clay composite/plastic chips with missing stickers. I feel the former type of wear blends in way better and is not as noticeable.

Well, maybe I'll order some Mosaics samples to check them out.

Just out of curiosity, where is your knowledge from that the Nile Clubs break easily? I've only heard of it in the Hobbyphilic review that's nearing 2 years age. While I can confirm they have spinners (on a level I don't mind), I haven't managed to break one of the samples when deliberately trying with my bare hands. Have you seen it yourself? Managed to break one yourself? If yes, what did you have to do to the chip?

Granted, the print quality on them is definitely poorer than e.g. the Scrolls... a few colors do look like they were printed with a 10 year old cheap inkjet, but that's just a few spots and with their total smoothness everywhere I really like them.

[...] they are just waaaaaaaay too slippery to stack or handle properly at the table. [...]

I do have a 12 chip sample of the Nile Clubs. To me they sure are a little slippery, but at least those 12 chips stack somewhat well. Not sure how this would change with a full 20 chip stack.

I also have a 11 chip sample of the Ultimate Cash Game chips, which are Sun-Flys. Comparing the slipperyness of both stacks, the UCG seem to only slightly be less slippery, despite the fine texture they have.

What I however really don't like about them is that they don't have aligned edges, and not even aligned faces – Nile Club in comparison has both. Since I heard the UCG were of "usual" Sun-Fly quality, I guess the Mosaics neither will feature aligned edges nor faces. While with the edges this would not be a problem with the Mosaics because their edge design is more forgiving, the missing face alignment would still be a bugger for me.

Anyone have Mosaics samples to confirm or deny face/edge alignment?

The Bluff Canyons are the cheapest chip of the lot and I think they look extremely attractive design wise. If it wasnt for the tears on the edges from the injection molding process, these chips would be a slam dunk for the budget conscious.

I personally don't really like the Bluff canyon mold or the standard sticker designs offered on those molds – that apart from my general dislike of injection molded chips with tears and grates and chips with peelable stickers.

 

[mummel]

If you're limiting yourself to ceramics, then I would get the Tiki Kings (my 1st choice) or the Nevada Jacks. I think you'll be disappointed with the Niles. I dont know why the label thing is such an issue (has anyone here ever lost a label on a CC????), but CCs > ceramics for the $ IMO.

 

[Nex]

If you're limiting yourself to ceramics, then I would get the Tiki Kings (my 1st choice) or the Nevada Jacks. I think you'll be disappointed with the Niles. I dont know why the label thing is such an issue (has anyone here actual lost a label on a CC????), but CCs > ceramics for the $ IMO.

Tikis I dislike design-wise, same goes for Nevada Jacks.

If I'm not totally mistaken, labels on CC's is just exactly the same deal as labels on cheap plastics?

I have had my experiences with labelled plastic chips and indeed I did already have a few chips where the label peeled off easily, and one case where it just fell off by itself because there was too little glue. On most of the chips where the labels peeled off easily, the label was mispositioned off from the center far enough so that a part of it went over the border of the shallow central inset.

Also what I generally read is that CC's have just the same flatness issues as the ceramics do, and that they only don't have spinners because they are relatively rough?

 

[BGinGA]

Bluff Canyons are on a different mold, are a slightly harder and more slippery plastic, and quality control is not as good as with the poker knights mold chips. I would not recommend them.

Best budget ceramic by far is the Venerati chips from sidepot.com. Nothing else comes close to the bang-for-the-buck, except for the occasional blow-out sales offered by PGI.

Up to you whether you want to spend 16c/chip or 39c/chip on chips that you plan to eventually replace and/or sell for a loss.

 

[mummel]

If I'm not totally mistaken, labels on CC's is just exactly the same deal as labels on cheap plastics?

Buying 2000 chips and shipping them internationally without seeing a China clay sample is a mistake IMO. The labels on the CCs are very difficult to remove. They are positioned lower in the center of the chip and are not raised (so to get them out you really need to dig your finger nail in there and damage the label). You need a razor sharp hobby knife to get under the label if you really want to remove it without damage.

 

[mummel]

Nothing else comes close to the bang-for-the-buck

I was thinking the same thing. There was a thread recently where folks were talking about them. Get a Venerati sample set and a CC sample set and go from there. You can always hang these samples in display cases on your wall down the road. They wont go to waste and at least you can try and avoid buyers remorse.

 

[mummel]

quality control is not as good as with the poker knights mold chips

I need to get some Showdown chips for my displays to compare them against the Bluffs. Plastic and quality control aside, when I opened the Bluffs, I was like wow, these chips look great. They were the sample chips I had the least expectations for because they were the cheapest but the design and colors are great!

 

[Mental Nomad]

stickers, which often aren't well centered, or can peel off, just like with the plastics I have

I understand your dislike of stickers, but it's unfounded.

I once had two sets of chips: my Paulsons (for cash games) and a 2,000 "Ultimate" poker chips (slugged plastic chip with labels.

The nature of the slippery, almost oily-feeling plastic and the cheap quality labels meant that some came off. Stacking the racks was liable to peel off a label.

Since then, I've also heavily used these, another slugged plastic chip with labels:

I bought them because my Paulson set has no fracs. Also, I wanted to stop putting so much wear on them. I stopped using my Paulsons, almost entirely... but I have had exactly zero labels come off, and this set has played nearly weekly for two years.

The plastic material is less slippery, and the labels are higher-quality. They were more expensive that the prior, but the prices difference was not huge... these were still only 16 cents a chip for me.

I have just purchased a large set of these:

These aren't plastic at all; they are ceramics with a recess, and the label is in the recess. Made by Sun-Fly.

In paranoia, I went through each chip checking the labels; all were good. I've played them half a dozen times already. Exactly zero labels have come off. I've racked and re-racked them while experimenting with storage and or making different breakdowns to travel... I have absolutely no worries about the labels.

Finally, there are custom labels from people like Gear in Canada and PokerChipsDesign in France... they can produce your design on very high-quality labels which feel great, look great, stick great... and can, quite honestly, look better than most real inlays.

My point: a label is not a label is not a label.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I've only heard of it in the Hobbyphilic review

With all due respect, Hobbyphilic does not strike me as an authority. He appears, to me, to be a hobbyist who enjoys talking about chips and making videos, which is great, but many people on this site - including several who've posted in this thread of yours - are giving you much more solid info on chips.

The knowledge here runs deep and wide. Take advantage.

 

[dew4au]

Well I was more looking for comments regarding the chip denom breakdown itself, not e.g. the type of chips I want to use. I merely posted the type of chips so you know what denoms I can pick from.

Well in the process you chased away one of the people most knowledgeable about such.

 

[Jambine]

With all due respect, Hobbyphilic does not strike me as an authority. He appears, to me, to be a hobbyist who enjoys talking about chips and making videos, which is great, but many people on this site - including several who've posted in this thread of yours - are giving you much more solid info on chips.

The knowledge here runs deep and wide. Take advantage.

Never has there been such a wealth of knowledge, imparted in such a small space, to such a reluctant recipient....

 

[Nex]

Best budget ceramic by far is the Venerati chips from sidepot.com. Nothing else comes close to the bang-for-the-buck, except for the occasional blow-out sales offered by PGI.

The Veneratis were actually the first ones I had a closer look at, even before finding Scroll and Nile Club.
Unfortunately the only US site which sells them, which you linked (I know they're up on Alibaba as well, but hell no!) is somewhat inflexible regarding shipping, and THIS:

is certainly not going to happen

(Even just ordering a 10 chip sample set already generates a shipping cost quote > $100, lmao)

Up to you whether you want to spend 16c/chip or 39c/chip on chips that you plan to eventually replace and/or sell for a loss.

Maybe I won't fully replace them. Could be used as the base for a travel set later on where losing/damaging a chip doesn't hurt as hard as it'd happen with a custom inlaid clay one that costs me over $3 apiece (including 19% customs etc).

I once had two sets of chips: [...] and a 2,000 "Ultimate" poker chips (slugged plastic chip with labels. [...]

The plastics with stickers I have and which I referred to earlier are nearly exactly the same you have. Mine only read "Poker Chip", not "The Ultimate Poker Chip", and the white stripes on the edge aren't as broad. But other than that they're identical.

Yes, they also have a slight recess on their faces where the label is supposed to go, and if they are correctly placed (and with enough glue), they do stick there. If the label is fully placed inside the recess area you have a hard time getting it out. My point was this: On these cheap chips, there are many chips where the labels are not correctly placed. They stick out over the recess area. And that's where you can easily pull them out/off deliberately or even accidentally.

The Poker Knights maybe have better quality control on the label placement, but I'm not sure if a sample set would fully convince me of that.

But then again, the labels are not the only big issue I have with plastic and CC chips but also tears, grates and sharp edges. I want smooth edges so it is an actual pleasure to take a stack between your fingers.

Hobbyphilic may or may not be that knowledgeable about every aspect as good as some of you might be – I can't judge that. But what he does is he shows the chips close up in his videos. For the Poker Knights mold – sharp edges and tears/grates, just the same I have on my garbage plastics.

The only china clays I've seen so far that don't have this are the Nexgen Pro Classics (which do not have a 25¢ chip – not going to abuse NCV chips for that – and look somewhat dull) and Milanos (whose label and edge spot design I don't really like either, and they would cost me even more than the Nile Club ceramics)

And one more re: Poker Knights – what I've also come to dislike on my metal insert plastics is their substantially higher weight, compared with the 10g ceramic samples I have. With 13.5g the Poker Knights weigh just the same as my plastics do.

 

[mummel]

This thread is a train wreck. I just realized your first post never actually contained any questions, just a statement of your current game plan. I really hope everything works out like you want it to, sincerely. I'll be looking for the "what I learned" thread in a couple of months. I'm still learning something new here everyday.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

But personnaly, I don't get how you dare to organize a 1€-2€ game (so basically up to $2000 on the table) with chips anybody could order on the Internet.

So at least for your "high stakes" table you shall go to the custom route.

On Poker Production, it's only 69c per custom ceramic with possibility to order small quantities.

On Kooper France, it's only 38c per customized ceramics but you have to order min. 2000 chips.

 

[Nex]

This thread is a train wreck. I just realized your first post never actually contained any questions, just a statement of your current game plan.

Correct, I did not have particular questions initially.

I was asking for comments on the plan I had drafted: Maybe someone would spot any issues with it which I haven't yet. (And if you fully read the thread – I admit, there's some very long walls of text – you will find that there indeed were suggestions that I picked up and changed my initial plan)

But personnaly, I don't get how you dare to organize a 1€-2€ game (so basically up to $2000 on the table) with chips anybody could order on the Internet.

This was my plan.

I was convinced here that for those higher stakes games I'll be better off with customs. That's a quite bunch of posts into the thread.

I only keep the non-custom ceramics for low stakes where it'd simply be uneconomical/impossible for a potential bad guy to smuggle foreign chips into play undetected in order to cash them out later.

 

[BGinGA]

The only china clays I've seen so far that don't have this are the Nexgen Pro Classics

NexGen Pro chips are not china clays. They are 9.5g injection-molded plastic chips with adhesive labels, no metal slug.

There are several versions of these chips on the market (mostly different labels and mold design markings. They typically sell for around 25c/chip, and are another budget chip which would be a improvement over Nile Club ceramics at a cheaper cost.

 

[Nex]

NexGen Pro chips are not china clays. They are 9.5g injection-molded plastic chips with adhesive labels, no metal slug.

Thanks for clarifying. I mistook these for china clays due to exactly the three properties you noted.

 

[Mental Nomad]

For the Poker Knights mold – sharp edges and tears/grates, just the same I have on my garbage plastics.

After a moment of WTF, I pulled out my Monaco Clubs.

There is no "sharp edge" on them.

Checked three stacks of chips - quarters, dollars, fives - and found two with a slight manufacturing extrusion edge. Fixable with my thumbnail.

Before and after pics of the same ridge...

Before:

After:

My players love these chips - they're bidding on them, since I'm letting them go in favor of things like my Boardwalks and other upcoming chips.

I'm certain I've handled more chips than Hobbyphilic - not least because I was a professional dealer for several years - and I have no idea what he's talking about re: "sharp edges." Frankly, the CPC custom clay samples I've gotten have the sharpest edges, and they feel great. They handle beautifully.

If I had to choose between this set, with the occasional little ridge that cleans off with a fingernail - IF you go looking close enough to find one in several stacks - versus another set that costs half as much, but which has the occasional spinner or wobbler, this set wins, HANDS DOWN.

If you actually handle chips and stacks for a while, what you care about is how well they stack. Spinners and wobble stacks are an enormously bigger turn-off than these ridges, which are rare, and which fifty or so people have failed to noticed on my chips over the past few years, and which I, myself, a chip handling snob, never noticed.

ADENDUM:

My old Paulsons still have sharper ridges than these things did, new.

 

[BGinGA]

The Veneratis were actually the first ones I had a closer look at, even before finding Scroll and Nile Club.
Unfortunately the only US site which sells them, which you linked (I know they're up on Alibaba as well, but hell no!) is somewhat inflexible regarding shipping, and THIS:

is certainly not going to happen

(Even just ordering a 10 chip sample set already generates a shipping cost quote > $100, lmao)

One option is to call or email Stephan to see what shipping options he can offer for an order your size.

Another less-expensive option (and one not limited to just Venerati chips) is to have your chips shipped to a US chipper, and have that chipper send your chips to you using a more economical shipping option -- often times resulting in significant overall savings. This is not an uncommon occurrence here on PCF.

 

[Nex]

After a moment of WTF, I pulled out my Monaco Clubs.[...]

Okay, guess he got a bad run of those chips then. Because on the video it really is clearly visible that they were much worse around the edges than the chips on your photos.

Maybe I also didn't describe correctly what I don't like. The chips don't have to be rounded, but they should feel smooth when you move your finger around the side of the chip. With the cheap plastics I have, there are humps and grates at the places where the body color and the spot color meet, and the PK ones on the video looked like they had exactly the same issue.

Another less-expensive option (and one not limited to just Venerati chips) is to have your chips shipped to a US chipper, and have that chipper send your chips to you using a more economical shipping option -- often times resulting in significant overall savings. This is not an uncommon occurrence here on PCF.

Call me paranoid or whatever, but I really prefer to only deal with shops directly :/

-----

Maybe I'll think again about custom ceramics, because after all I really still would favor ceramics over china clay or higher quality plastics. But if I get those, I might as well stick to these and not get custom clays at all.

If only I could just slightly modify the design of the Mosaics... replace the tiny SF logo with my own and swap some chip denom colors... then I wouldn't have such a big problem with coming up with a design. Or if the premium they charge for aligned edges wasn't so high, I could mimic some beautiful clay chip edge spots and have at least everything but the small center area of the chip faces done already...

 

[Wils]

Another less-expensive option (and one not limited to just Venerati chips) is to have your chips shipped to a US chipper, and have that chipper send your chips to you using a more economical shipping option -- often times resulting in significant overall savings. This is not an uncommon occurrence here on PCF.

If anyone who will do this for a UK chipper can PM me just to show willing in theory, that could really open up some doors for me... it wouldn't be needed immediately but just having the option would be much appreciated.

Quote: Call me paranoid or whatever, but I really prefer to only deal with shops directly :/

Call me subversive but I really prefer to give my money to chippers than the UK government via 20% VAT/import tax.

 

[mummel]

After a moment of WTF, I pulled out my Monaco Clubs.

There is no "sharp edge" on them.

Checked three stacks of chips - quarters, dollars, fives - and found two with a slight manufacturing extrusion edge. Fixable with my thumbnail.

Before and after pics of the same ridge...

Before:

View attachment 78479

After:

View attachment 78477

My players love these chips - they're bidding on them, since I'm letting them go in favor of things like my Boardwalks and other upcoming chips.

I'm certain I've handled more chips than Hobbyphilic - not least because I was a professional dealer for several years - and I have no idea what he's talking about re: "sharp edges." Frankly, the CPC custom clay samples I've gotten have the sharpest edges, and they feel great. They handle beautifully.

If I had to choose between this set, with the occasional little ridge that cleans off with a fingernail - IF you go looking close enough to find one in several stacks - versus another set that costs half as much, but which has the occasional spinner or wobbler, this set wins, HANDS DOWN.

If you actually handle chips and stacks for a while, what you care about is how well they stack. Spinners and wobble stacks are an enormously bigger turn-off than these ridges, which are rare, and which fifty or so people have failed to noticed on my chips over the past few years, and which I, myself, a chip handling snob, never noticed.

ADENDUM:

My old Paulsons still have sharper ridges than these things did, new.

View attachment 78478

Do these chips have those micro tears in the plastic on the edges. It would be great if you could take a real close up shot of a stacked barrel. Thanks!

 

[mummel]

If anyone who will do this for a UK chipper can PM me just to show willing in theory, that could really open up some doors for me... it wouldn't be needed immediately but just having the option would be much appreciated.

Quote: Call me paranoid or whatever, but I really prefer to only deal with shops directly :/

Call me subversive but I really prefer to give my money to chippers than the UK government via 20% VAT/import tax.

Honestly, 20% VAT? WTF...... How do people live like this.

 

[Wils]

Same way you guys are going to have to live with 20% import tax on sombreros.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Do these chips have those micro tears in the plastic on the edges. It would be great if you could take a real close up shot of a stacked barrel. Thanks!

Not home, but will do... Tell me what it is I'm looking for? (Don't know what "micro tears" are.)

Am out getting bourbon for tonight's game. We'll play the Monaco and I'll have everyone hunt.

 

[mummel]

It looks like small scratches on the plastic, like tiny tears, with minute pieces of plastic sticking up. When stacked, it makes the barrels look worn/untidy. The faces don't seem to have those tears though. Only the sides. If you can't find them easily, then perhaps those poker knights and showdown chips are in fact better quality. The bluffs clearly have them.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Actually, forgot about this until today, so nobody was hunting for defects. As usual, nobody cared about the chips... other than how many they had!

I ran good:

(Just over $200 on my $50 buy-in.)

Will try to get you some close-up stack shots today.

 

[mummel]

Actually, forgot about this until today, so nobody was hunting for defects. As usual, nobody cared about the chips... other than how many they had!

I ran good:

View attachment 78748

(Just over $200 on my $50 buy-in.)

Will try to get you some close-up stack shots today.

Sweet. Those chips don't look half bad! I like the 25c and $1 chips. The $5 is a little meh. Very bland. I wonder if I should get some if these for a travel set.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Those chips don't look half bad! I like the 25c and $1 chips. The $5 is a little meh.

Funny enough, I find the 25c and $1 chips are meh, but the $5 is better. Different strokes.

Took pics... lined 'em up, leaned 'em back, and took a series of close-up with the phone in a stand for stability. Haven't even checked the photos at full scale yet, so it'll be an experiment. Going to upload now.