Bitcoin crash coming (2 Viewers)

[grebe]

ever been to a foreign country where you exchange dollars for the local currency? Like let's say you goto jolly old Englad where the price of a fish and chips is 8 pounds. You exchange your 100 dollars for 70 pounds and the person doing the exchange takes 3 pounds for his trouble. So your 8 pound fish and chips costs you $11.30... kinda.

The price of your meal isn't actually changing. The person running the fish and chips shop doesn't go and change the sign when the dollar fluctuates against the pound. And he really doesn't care if you had to change dollars to pounds to buy his fish and chips. He will gladly sell it to the person behind you who has seen the price been 8 pounds for years.

So think about that in terms of trading for something in BTC. If something costs you 0.0020 BTC than it costs you 0.0020, it doesn't cost you $100.

I am afraid we have a communications issue, because your response doesnt have anything to do with my question. I'll be more blunt:

How in the long term will BTC continue to hold it's value if it is not in fact an easy or financially viable product to use? Is it an actual usable product, or just an investment tool?

 

[JustDave]

I am afraid we have a communications issue, because your response doesnt have anything to do with my question. I'll be more blunt:

How in the long term will BTC continue to hold it's value if it is not in fact an easy or financially viable product to use? Is it an actual usable product, or just an investment tool?

my apologies for misunderstanding. It's as easy to use as paypal is.

Dave

 

[Darson]

How in the long term will BTC continue to hold it's value if it is not in fact an easy or financially viable product to use? Is it an actual usable product, or just an investment tool?

You have to consider that there is a distinct difference between cost, price and value:
- The value of bitcoin is the ability to make secure transactions, instantly, globally, without regulatory oversight, etc.
- The price of bitcoin is what people are willing to pay, in fiat currency at a given point in time, to access that value.
- The cost to bitcoin - the miners are not actually mining, they are fighting for the right to carry out calculations to validate transactions. Without the miners, the system wouldn't work - but in order for these calculations to happen there needs to be some reward so miners are paid in bitcoin for every block of transactions they successfully process. This has a deflationary effect, essentially a cost. There is also a fee on each transaction that goes to the miner processing the block your transaction is in.

There are a limited number of bitcoins, hence the more people that want to do transactions in bitcoins, the higher the price they pay to access the ability to use them. This should drive a macro trend of increasing prices as bitcoin adoption increases. Given that PayPal, Tesla, Square etc are buying bitcoin, we are seeing signs that adoption is becoming more mainstream. Greater adoption = more demand = increased price.

However, the rapid rise and fall that we see on the day to day level are likely driven by speculation/news rather than actual transaction volume.

So recognizing that the value is the transaction mechanism - online, secure etc. That mechanism can and has been duplicated by all the other cryptos that are out there. Bitcoin has first mover advantage but it no means guaranteed to retain it's position.

Edit to add: This is based on my rudimentary understanding; I may not be accurate as this is still relatively new to me

 

[TeamNapoli]

i have made many purchases with bitcoin, yes i know everyone laughs at the kid who spent BTC to buy a pizza. What they dont realize is that he was helping bitcoin eco system get established. That with the cash he was gonna use for pizza he purchased btc or more mining equipment back then rewards were sweet....
Loved the Big Bang Theory episode with BTC and the batman drive

get a bitcoin credit card. they pay you up to 8% interest on the btc you have in your account and when you use the card the transaction fees are small since you already have money in their liquidity pool. As all credit cards you have to find the one you like best or fits you the best. i am not recommending this one it is just one of the first ones that came out and its expired so i dont mind showing part of it. Not that i dont trust anyone here just being safe. Now dont use these companies as cold storage...

 

[TeamNapoli]

now here is a good question for US folks;
if you use coinbase(or any other US based crypto wallet) buy your btc and sell it back in 5 years you know your profit and pay your taxable amount to your favorite uncle
now you use coinbase to buy btc transfer it to a cold storage and in 5 yrs you transfer it your BTC credit card (non US based) and buy a lambo do you still calculate your taxes for your fav uncle?
Not giving anyone ideas of how to evade just open discussion


edit: actually i forgot you dont even need a CC, Lambo has a direct RX address you can go direct BTC wallet to wallet

 

[L3urntout]

Yeah you're still going to have to explain the cost basis, better coinbase than 0 (which is what the irs will assume). 500k of perfect cost basis that is unreported is going to raise flags

Chain analysis will come, and despite 10x my salary due in April, that is a good problem to have.

 

[TeamNapoli]

chain anlysis...get yourself some Monero. JK

what was that saying in that mafia movie

Senate: How do you explain all your mansion and cars based on your salary

Head of Family: I got friends who like to let me borrow things

 

[DrStrange]

It is advisable to pay your income taxes on crypto. The rates are low, perhaps zero, for coins held more than a year. The alternative can easily become criminal, but could surely be expensive.

Twenty years ago, people with secret off-shore bank accounts were certain they were safe from the USA tax assessors. Then you started checking a little box on your tax form that said whether you had an off-shore bank account or not. Then the US Treasury strong armed banking haven nations. The foreign banks started to report on US citizens with accounts. And now when they catch you, the penalty plus interest is often larger than the total value of the account. And since people lied about the accounts on their tax returns, the matter was much easier to make its way into criminal court.

This is not so likely to be a problem for someone holding a modest amount bitcoin. A few hundred bucks is often not a big deal. But if you are buying cars and houses with crypto, then I suggest caution should be in order.

Bitcoin isn't as "secret" as you might believe < though there are ways I am sure >. But even if you did keep the crypto side secret, the other side of the transaction has to report large suspicious trades to the US government - say like some dude walks in and buys a car with bitcoin. It would be the same as if you walked in with a lunchbox full of hundred dollar bills. The car dealer is going to file that report in most cases because the downside to the business is severe.

You might not have noticed yet, but there is one of those "boxes" saying do you own / trade in crypto - check yes or no on the 2020 tax forms. You are required to answer. It is right there on page one, not too far from where you give your name and social security number.

We are all on notice. File your stuff accurately or pay the price. -=- DrStrange

 

[TeamNapoli]

Oh Bitcoin is not secret at all. All transaction can be followed and viewed, even with those Dapp that claim it puts your transaction below 5 levels in a block.

the only issue i see for the IRS is pre 2018 miners. If it was easy a lot more people would have been arrested when they cracked silk road. Instead they go after the developer, in my eyes if that is the case then DARPA is responsible for all the illegal porn\drugs\etc on the internet since they created it.

 

[TeamNapoli]

ok saw this and thought some would get a kick out of it

 

[TeamNapoli]

going main stream more and more each day

 

[Rakrul]

I am afraid we have a communications issue, because your response doesnt have anything to do with my question. I'll be more blunt:

How in the long term will BTC continue to hold it's value if it is not in fact an easy or financially viable product to use? Is it an actual usable product, or just an investment tool?

The value of any financial tool is based on supply, demand and trust in the item. Take gold for instance, everybody trust it but you they only thing you can exchange it with, is currency. (Some) crypto allows you to exchange for (some) goods and services, and of course currency. But trust is the biggest thing. If enough (of the right) people think it will become worthless, it will.

Hyperinflation happens when the market loses confidence in the country and thereby the currency. It's obviously way more complex but that's the gist of it. BTC will only hold its value if the trust is there (which in turn maintains supply-demand). For an outsider like me, it seems that the pioneers belives in the blockchain concept while the middle 3rd of the bell curve is treating BTC as an investment / gamble which is obviously great for the trust-part.

 

[DrStrange]

In case I missed it, who holds the patents on the blockchain concept, if there are any? It seems unlikely that the holders of a Bitcoin are also part owners of the blockchain intellectual property. Are Bitcoin holders paying royalties on the blockchain patent(s), if they are owned by others?

I have trouble figuring how Bitcoin earns value from blockchain technology beyond the value of being protected from counterfeiting. Is it like saying newly printed US Dollars are extra valuable due to microdot technology?

Of course, the foregoing also applies to other crypto coins if they use blockchain to verify ownership and track transactions.

Maybe these things are obvious, but does anyone actually get paid from the use of blockchain and crypto currency? -=- DrStrange

 

[johnjohn]

https://aave.com/

 

[PlayerADK]

going main stream more and more each day

I'm a huge BTC enthusiast, but Shapiro promoting it makes me like it slightly less tbh.

One of his best videos I've seen though.

 

[TeamNapoli]

Bitcoin does not gain its value from blockchain, in the way you state it. Bitcoin uses cryptography and block chain technology. Or there version of that technology. Bitcoin value comes from belief in it as say other fiats.
Now the microdot does offer extra value to the US dollar. as more people trust it from being less counterfeited. They have a belief in the currency and willing to accept it for their labor or product. The US dollar is not tied to the gold standard now it is tied in what people believe it worth.
ethereum was the first coin to build a platform that others can develop services financial or others using the eth code.

He is food for thought, In the future I can see recording artists use NFTs (built on ethereum network) to sell their music which will guarantee them royalties every time the song is sold to someone or even resold. Or season ticket holders for your favorite team. Yes ticket master will become worthless, scalpers will no longer have a means but the fans will get a service at the right price, the artist\athlete will get their cut and so will the venue. well they will have to get ethereum to develop their nft and wouldn't you know ethereum liquidity it based off bitcoin. Of course this is a picture from 15000 ft in the air.

 

[TeamNapoli]

I'm a huge BTC enthusiast, but Shapiro promoting it makes me like it slightly less tbh.

One of his best videos I've seen though.

OMG it was horrible explained, but i think he was doing it at high level and not to break it down. I also get the same reactions when CNBC reporters try to talk to miners and they have zero knowledge of technology and maybe even finance. lol

 

[softchewy]

In case I missed it, who holds the patents on the blockchain concept, if there are any? It seems unlikely that the holders of a Bitcoin are also part owners of the blockchain intellectual property. Are Bitcoin holders paying royalties on the blockchain patent(s), if they are owned by others?

I have trouble figuring how Bitcoin earns value from blockchain technology beyond the value of being protected from counterfeiting. Is it like saying newly printed US Dollars are extra valuable due to microdot technology?

Of course, the foregoing also applies to other crypto coins if they use blockchain to verify ownership and track transactions.

Maybe these things are obvious, but does anyone actually get paid from the use of blockchain and crypto currency? -=- DrStrange

I'm sure someone else can clarify it better, but from my limited understanding:
There are no patents on the blockchain concept (think of it as you would the TLS protocol).
The IETF is beginning to work on interoperability between different blockchain systems.
It solved (mostly) the double spending issue for decentralized digital currencies.
It adds value in that it adds security.

 

[grebe]

For my purposes going forward (a user, not an investor) I will be trying out bitcoin cash. It seems to fluctuate much less than the others, and I think I can use it to make deposits to Bovada just the same as regular bitcoin.

Of course, I have been on an absolute tear with my last deposit, so maybe I will just win from now on and not need deposits! As yall like to say here....TO THE MOON!

 

[TeamNapoli]

just make sure they accept it, there is plenty of burned crypto out there just hanging around in limbo land

 

[mipevi]

OMG I totally forgot I have this Bitcoin, and the price seems to be crashing up! I ordered a Ledger Nano for it, though not quite sure how the coin will fit... I’m sure the Ledger comes with instructions. Not selling my Bitcoin but willing to trade for some grail sets, LMK!

 

[TeamNapoli]

LMAO
But honestly asking is that one of those copper P2PKH btc or just a copper coin of btc

 

[mipevi]

Just a copper coin (well not even that, just copper plated)...

Still willing to trade for grail sets, though!

 

[TeamNapoli]

Im trying to google it but cant find anything. Remember that scam; I cant recall if it was in the Philippines or Hong Kong. But why print out your BTC on paper as back up send me your wallet info and I will stamp it on a one ounce coin of Copper, Silver or Gold (depending what you were willing to pay). And people think that todays crypto market is the wild wild west....

 

[TeamNapoli]

SO who thinks were heading for the third peak of the crypto bull run as we have in the past bull runs. historical data shows 3 major peaks every time we had a bull run.

 

[TeamNapoli]

BTC tapping the ceiling

 

[TeamNapoli]

ok interesting video here,, interesting to listen to sqwak box at about 2:30. And in IMHO no not every young person getting a stimy will buy bitcoin
Also information on the pancake and cream dns spoofing attack (fishing).
Bloomberg accepts cardano (ADA)on its trading platform +23% rise, love it how these nay sayers thought crypto was worthless.....oops
Elon Mush files sec for new title....got to love his ego

 

[Anthony Martino]

On Monday a guy with full sleeve tattoos on both arms was playing PLO with me at Luckys and he brought a shiny gold backpack with the Bitcoin logo on it.

I had dabbled in Bitcoin, ETH and so forth many years ago, but never had much success (when I got in is when the prices decided to tank/stagnate).

Since I built my wife and I newer systems recently (my 12-core and her 8-core Ryzen plus both with the RTX 3070 cards) I decided to download Nicehash again and give it a shot.

Provided the Bitcoin price remains relatively stable these graphics cards will have paid for themselves in roughly 4-5 months time

 

[TeamNapoli]

So now that Gary Gensler will be appointed to the SEC Chair, who believes this is a good thing for bitcoin and alt coins?

Now Gary G. was a professor at MIT in blockchain technology, will he finally allow the SEC to green light a BTC EFTs? Will monero's privacy protection finally be overlooked in the US? OR will he choke the industry with over burdensome regulations?

cut from an article..........................................
As head of the SEC, Gensler would be in charge of cryptocurrencies deemed to be securities. During the Senate Banking Committee hearing, Gensler said that while the SEC should promote innovation in blockchain technology, if there are securities involved that trade on exchanges, “we want to ensure that there’s appropriate investor protection.”

This thinking isn’t new. Using the definition of a security to determine how a financial instrument should be regulated, known as the Howey test, dates back to a 1946 Supreme Court ruling, devised to help define which transactions constitute an investment contract. It’s a rule Gensler knows well. He is known in progressive circles as a tough financial sector reformer from his post-financial crisis days as head of the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, but he is also hailed by the crypto crowd for his understanding of blockchain technologies, as an MIT economics professor who teaches about blockchain, digital currencies, and financial innovation.

Gensler’s comments during the hearing echo his teachings on the Howey test. By this logic, cryptocurrencies are generally either defined as utility tokens, which act like a form of tender, or security tokens, which represent equity or share in a company that would be regulated by the SEC. If a coin offering is meant to give investors an ownership stake, then the company’s token should be subject to the regulations of a security, he told an audience at a 2018 MIT blockchain conference, even if it doesn’t offer a dividend, or have the typical attributes of an equity or bond. “The investing public is clearly hoping for possible appreciation,” Gensler said. “When you quack like the duck, when you swim like the duck, when you walk like the duck…I think the bird’s a duck.”


Bitcoin, the most ubiquitous virtual currency, doesn’t qualify as a security, according to Gensler. “Bitcoin came into existence as mining began as an incentive in validating a distributed platform,” he said at the conference. Unlike other cryptocurrencies being offered by companies like Ripple, bitcoin had no initial token offering and no common enterprise. Ripple, on the other hand, “sure seems like a common enterprise,” he concluded.

 

[Mike mac]

Hellooooo XRP !