Betting Line Confusion

SendThatStack

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Cash game, 4 players on the turn. First to act shoves, second to act folds, third to act calls, last guy folds. The guy who shoved gets mad because he says he thought that the caller had folded on the previous street. He said that because of where the cards were he thought it was a folded hand. The cards were in front of the player out on the betting line or maybe a little past it (I wasnt at the table) with no card protector. Does the betting line have anything to do with your cards?
 

honkydevil

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In a casino they are live til the dealer grabs them and puts them in the muck I believe. At home with no dedicated dealer I would try to enforce pushing them over the line would be binding, just like I tell people to push their bets/calls over the bet line.

Seems very careless to keep your cards even pushed up to the line without a card capper or anything. I could see why the all in player would assume he folded if they were halfway over the line or more. I would find it hard to make a ruling having not seen the cards position. The player was either careless or trying to angle right? Was it a noob player?
 

upNdown

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The player was either careless or trying to angle right?
Maybe careless and maybe an angle. But the most careless person here is the guy who went all in without knowing who was in the hand.
House rules always, and a responsible dealer would prevent this from happening. But the all in guy has nobody to blame but himself.
 

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In a casino they are live til the dealer grabs them and puts them in the muck I believe. At home with no dedicated dealer I would try to enforce pushing them over the line would be binding, just like I tell people to push their bets/calls over the bet line.

Seems very careless to keep your cards even pushed up to the line without a card capper or anything. I could see why the all in player would assume he folded if they were halfway over the line or more. I would find it hard to make a ruling having not seen the cards position. The player was either careless or trying to angle right? Was it a noob player?

I think the guy who had his hand out there might have been doing it so that the seats at the end of the table could see if he is in the hand because when its back against the rail its harder to see. The thing is, he didnt move them up there at any point, they were there the entire hand I believe. If anyone was angling it was the guy who shoved imo.
 

Eloe2000

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100% up to the player to know what is going on. He wasn’t paying attention and didn’t realize the other player had called on the previous street. That player had apparently called on the previous street and regardless where the cards were on the table their action was a call, their cards are live, and they are in the hand regardless of what the all-in player thought.
 
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CantSpellPoker

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There’s an old clip of a hand involving Ivey and Matusow. I don’t remember the specifics, but I believe Matusow acted out of turn and basically said to Ivey, “I couldn’t see your cards!” ... and Ivey just stares at him and says, “.....you don’t know who’s in the pot?”

Pay attention.
 

upNdown

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There’s an old clip of a hand involving Ivey and Matusow. I don’t remember the specifics, but I believe Matusow acted out of turn and basically said to Ivey, “I couldn’t see your cards!” ... and Ivey just stares at him and says, “.....you don’t know who’s in the pot?”

Pay attention.
I remember that one. It felt like Ivy was being unnecessarily dickish. but right.
 

Eloe2000

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Furthermore, the question of whether or not cards being pushed over the line is a fold is not even relevant here as there is no action to that player. So cards moving over the line is not an action. The cards simply being past that line isn’t an action. On the current street and the previous street the second player called on each street when it was their turn to take action.

If I moved my cards past that line when it wasn’t my action or if the dealer or some other player moved my cards past that line momentarily for some reason it would not be a fold and those cards would still be live. It would require the player them self while the action was theirs to push their cards past the line in a folding motion to be a fold at my house. And if it were a casino the dealer would then have to muck those cards for it to be a fold I believe.
 
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