Bad news for Pointe Defiance chips (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

The Chip Room reports a shipping disaster causing the loss or destruction of part of the inventory of the Pointe Defiance chip set. The fractionals and $25s are the most affected. Only new set in forever and the Poker Gods smite it!

DrStrange

Link - http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/threads/pointe-defiance-pre-sale.90758/page-4

 

[BGinGA]

I hate chip carnage.... such an unnecessary waste.

 

[72o]

Harry Dunne delivery and packing service apparently. Damn shame really.

 

[Trihonda]

I was on track to pick up a 3000 chip set, but this has completely derailed my plans. There are not enough expletives in the dictionary for how I feel!!!!

I do notice that some people are flipping their non-frac PD chips (at a hefty mark-up, I might add). Kinda sucks for those who wanted a nice useable set...

 

[manamongkids]

I was on track to pick up a 3000 chip set, but this has completely derailed my plans. There are not enough expletives in the dictionary for how I feel!!!!

I do notice that some people are flipping their non-frac PD chips (at a hefty mark-up, I might add). Kinda sucks for those who wanted a nice useable set...

Agreed, but theres many sides to the situation.

You can order right away at the great prices, see if you like them and just keep them.

You can wait to order after the first wave and see the condition before you order. If you choose this option you are taking a gamble because all the chips could be gone. The chipping community has had less and less of these Chip Room sales,

Or you can order right away at the great prices, see if you like them and if you do not, then you can sell on eBay, I don't condone this. The ideal situation would be post in the Classifieds on CT or PCF and get your money back...maybe a tiny % more.

Shitty situation but its simply supply and demand

 

[jbutler]

Agreed, but theres many sides to the situation.

You can order right away at the great prices, see if you like them and just keep them.

You can wait to order after the first wave and see the condition before you order. If you choose this option you are taking a gamble because all the chips could be gone. The chipping community has had less and less of these Chip Room sales,

Or you can order right away at the great prices, see if you like them and if you do not, then you can sell on eBay, I don't condone this. The ideal situation would be post in the Classifieds on CT or PCF and get your money back...maybe a tiny % more.

Shitty situation but its simply supply and demand

agreed. the only time i ever have a problem with people "flipping" chip room sale chips is when they do it often enough and with breakdowns so clearly created for the purpose that it becomes obvious that they never had any intention of keeping the chips. but this has happened very, very rarely imo.

 

[atomiktoaster]

agreed. the only time i ever have a problem with people "flipping" chip room sale chips is when they do it often enough and with breakdowns so clearly created for the purpose that it becomes obvious that they never had any intention of keeping the chips. but this has happened very, very rarely imo.

cough... atlanticcoin... cough

 

[BGinGA]

And not the only one. There are at least one or two chippers that do the same with regularity. Not naming any names....

 

[jbutler]

cough... atlanticcoin... cough

thing is, i'd still make a deal with the devil if the devil would just respond. never seen someone so uninterested in selling their products.

 

[mike32]

cough... atlanticcoin... cough

I think we can get mad at atlanticcoin all we want and they won't care. They are a pawn shop and strive to buy low and sell high! I will admit I filled out a Bud Jones set through them and was completely happy.

 

[jbutler]

I think we can get mad at atlanticcoin all we want and they won't care. They are a pawn shop and strive to buy low and sell high! I will admit I filled out a Bud Jones set through them and was completely happy.

i would honestly be glad to buy, but he won't even respond to me. if he thinks i'm going to buy 1000 chips in 20-chip increments he can suck my dog's red rocket.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I think we can get mad at atlanticcoin all we want and they won't care. They are a pawn shop and strive to buy low and sell high! I will admit I filled out a Bud Jones set through them and was completely happy.

Oh, for sure. They have some of my money too. I'm never happy about encouraging it though. It's not like they provide any more liquidity than Jim does (well, before the days of minimum percentages I guess.) Never very pleasant to work with them either, as butler said.

Fun fact I learned today because linkedin is creepier than facebook: Jim also owns a paddleboard manufacturing company.

 

[ovo]

agreed. the only time i ever have a problem with people "flipping" chip room sale chips is when they do it often enough and with breakdowns so clearly created for the purpose that it becomes obvious that they never had any intention of keeping the chips. but this has happened very, very rarely imo.

This happens more than rarely unfortunately

 

[jbutler]

This happens more than rarely unfortunately

i suppose i may be underestimating since i'm not at attuned to the market as i once was. i will say that i have experienced it rarely over the last year as compared to, say, 5 years ago.

 

[MaxB]

i would honestly be glad to buy, but he won't even respond to me. if he thinks i'm going to buy 1000 chips in 20-chip increments he can suck my dog's red rocket.

I've tried to get more than 10 or 20 chips at a time and have had no luck (Aztars)....luckily most came from Jim and I got a bunch on here

 

[RowdyRawhide]

The Chip Room reports a shipping disaster causing the loss or destruction of part of the inventory of the Pointe Defiance chip set. The fractionals and $25s are the most affected. Only new set in forever and the Poker Gods smite it!

DrStrange

Link - http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/threads/pointe-defiance-pre-sale.90758/page-4

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU@@@@@@@

I was really wanting to see these

 

[TheDeezer]

I ordered a healthy set but I was shorted a few 5's which was really odd. Everything else though came through. At the end of the day we all hate on those that buy these and sell quick but the fact is we either missed our chance to grab them ( and in disgust spew some neg vibes to those that scooped them up ) or simply suck it up and buy a tad higher those chips we should have secured early on the first time .. I have been there many times. Funny paradox.

 

[Trihonda]

Chip room sales are limited, and are far and few between... And they've down right broken the Internet at times. It's not easy ordering. Those forum members that expressly poach a huge lot of chips, with the express purpose of immediately flipping them for a 100% profit, well, there's a special place in chip pergatory for them. It denies a forum member the chance to get in on that deal, and is a tad disrespectful to Jim.

It's certainly not illegal or anything, but it totally goes against the spirit of these forums and what they're intended for, to bring fellow chippers together to share ideas and chip knowledge. If someone were trying to flip these chips for a profit, at least have the decency to wait until Jim has his main sale first. Otherwise, IMHO it's generally kosher to sell the chips for whatever you have into them.


As to atlaticoin, I am sure I purchased a rack or two of Bennys chips from them a while back. They initially worked with me and allowed me to by in bulk, when I contacted them directly by phone, but eventfully realized I wanted all the Bennys and so they figured they could make more money selling them in lots of 5-20 chips at a time... Gross.

 

[NiceShot]

I bought 3 racks of $1 and 3 racks of $5 chips casino bremerton from atlaticoin before I knew any better for my first casino chip set. The chips arrived all mixed up in a bubble envelope....

 

[H|Q]

It's certainly not illegal or anything, but it totally goes against the spirit of these forums and what they're intended for, to bring fellow chippers together to share ideas and chip knowledge. If someone were trying to flip these chips for a profit, at least have the decency to wait until Jim has his main sale first. Otherwise, IMHO it's generally kosher to sell the chips for whatever you have into them.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the comment in bold.

I consider myself a active and positive member of the chipping community. I've done quite a bit to bring folks together and share in the hobby. But there is no reason to not sell for the market value of the chips. I've taken plenty of losses on my chip flips, I'm entitled to make some of that back.

If I were to ever sell my Grand Vics, do you expect I should sell for the original price? People that buy to flip risk their money to do so. In every other market why should ours be any different?

We all had the opportunity to buy-in at the presale. Now that tragedy has stricken, it's only natural that the prices reflect that.

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

I bought 3 racks of $1 and 3 racks of $5 chips casino bremerton from atlaticoin before I knew any better for my first casino chip set. The chips arrived all mixed up in a bubble envelope....

Yep that's how mine came in yesterday. I was shocked lol.

You wrapped my UBs and Oaks up like you were shipping your grandmothers urn. Thanks for that!

 

[Trihonda]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the comment in bold.

I consider myself a active and positive member of the chipping community. I've done quite a bit to bring folks together and share in the hobby. But there is no reason to not sell for the market value of the chips. I've taken plenty of losses on my chip flips, I'm entitled to make some of that back.

If I were to ever sell my Grand Vics, do you expect I should sell for the original price? People that buy to flip risk their money to do so. In every other market why should ours be any different?

We all had the opportunity to buy-in at the presale. Now that tragedy has stricken, it's only natural that the prices reflect that.

This is a great debate!

I am not opposed to making a profit on chips sold at market value, but Jim still has some chips to sell, and he's not even shipped the entire pre-sale order yet. With the ink STILL wet on the pre-sale, I think it's poor form to then offer these up at a 100% markup to fellow chippers. Is there an official law or rule against it (no), but it shouldn't be considered kosher to do so. In the past, it's been seen as douchey, but with people seeing others doing it lately, it's almost like it's becoming acceptable now? At the very least, it generates bad karma. And trust me, to those that are doing this, many are taking notice.

I don't speak for everyone here, but I know I'm not alone in my opinion: That when people buy these in huge quantities expressly with the intent to immediately flip for a profit, it seems a bit douchey.. Now, granted, one of the reasons we buy chips is that they're not a bad investment. They often times increase in value. You buy a set, then see another set you like, then sell the first set to fund the second set. Rinse, repeat. I get that...

But when someone buys crazy quantities of a TCR sale, it denies many in the chip community the opportunity to get in on the deal, so that negates the argument that everyone had a chance to get the deal from TCR...

It's kinda like the Walmart argument... Walmart is buying in crazy quantities, which squeezes out the little guy just trying to get his small share of the market. Is it illegal? no, but it's not being a good contributing member of the chip community IMHO. You just have to ask yourself, is this a community that cares for each other, or preys on each other?

IMHO If sellers wait a respectable amount of time after The Chip Room sale, then you go get your dollar bro!!!

 

[MaxB]

This happens in other hobbies too..... like in pinball machines. People buy up machines at auctions, get them cheap on eBay , or find local deals for cheap, and then immediately try and flip for a huge markup. I've seen games sold on the newsgroup at a decent price, with multiple people wanting it, only to see it posted the next day for $2k more. Sucks, and they are frowned upon, but its part of collecting

 

[jbutler]

i'm not a huge believer in the free market. i'm more or less a socialist. but i'm a socialist when it comes to the important things: housing, clothing, transportation, pornography, etc. when it comes to poker chips, cry me a fucking river. buy it if you want it and if you don't like the price, pound sand.

do i think that people who do it repeatedly are basically shit? yeah. but the people who complain about it are even more annoying imo.

 

[Trihonda]

do i think that people who do it repeatedly are basically shit? yeah. but the people who complain about it are even more annoying imo.

Not sure even how to respond, lol..

So you're annoyed by people who speak out against behavior that you yourself feel is "basically shit"...?

OK, sounds logical.

 

[jbutler]

Not sure even how to respond, lol..

So you're annoyed by people who speak out against behavior that you yourself feel is "basically shit"...?

OK, sounds logical.

yeah perhaps that's putting it a bit more pointed than i intended. nothing personal against you trihonda or anyone who cares to speak their mind (obv i'm free to just not click on the thread if i don't want to see it).

but i do think it's logical. imo complaining about this sort of thing is more or less identical to complaining about gas prices. perhaps worse since many people can't simply not buy gas whereas we are all free to not buy chips if we don't like the price.

nothing will stop gas from going up. nothing will stop flipping by chippers who have different opinions on the ethics of flipping.

 

[Tommy]

This one time, at band chip camp...

 

[jbutler]

This one time, at band chip camp...

 

[Trihonda]

yeah perhaps that's putting it a bit more pointed than i intended. nothing personal against you trihonda or anyone who cares to speak their mind (obv i'm free to just not click on the thread if i don't want to see it).

but i do think it's logical. imo complaining about this sort of thing is more or less identical to complaining about gas prices. perhaps worse since many people can't simply not buy gas whereas we are all free to not buy chips if we don't like the price.

nothing will stop gas from going up. nothing will stop flipping by chippers who have different opinions on the ethics of flipping.

In total respect to your position (and I understand it), I also believe society has become complacent. I see parents failing to parent, then blaming society for their kid's behavior. I see scumbags victimizing people all the time, and society allows it to happen (people shrug their shoulders and says, "what can WE do about crime?". I don't think these are things we should stop working to improve. If we speak up and let people know it's not acceptable, then that's how change happens.

When I came to CT and PCF, there were threads about chip flippers, and there was discussion (involving vile distain) for those who did it. That's how I formed MY opinions on the matter... And I'm not talking about people who buy a few sets here and there, then later sell to fund other chips, etc... I'm talking about those who scoop up a lot of the inventory, then charge huge markups. These early discussions involved language like "banning", etc... Now, it's seems like people are becoming complacent, and people are openly supporting those who do this sort of thing, when it hurts all of us. This open support for that behavior will only lead to an increase...

So if I felt like it was pointless to speak up, then I'd keep my mouth shut. It's only pointless to speak up, if there's no chance of change. (some newer members might not understand what's deemed acceptable in this community, so speaking up might provide some level of education?). It's like the TV Show, What Would You Do, and I'm just speaking up. Of course, people have the right (and option) to not read my posts, or simply to disagree.

Cheers (and Chip On).

 

[BGinGA]

Actually, there is one very simple solution to the 'problem' of chip-flipping (assuming one considers it a problem). All chip sales always go to the highest bidder. That pretty much kills any profits in the secondary after-market, and by extension, kills any profit-motivated chip-flipping.

Jim@TCR has done some wonderful things for the chipping community in the past, in part by procuring and providing some awesome chips at incredibly low prices. He could have made much larger profits by setting his prices higher, but that's just not how he works. His generous approach has, however, created a secondary market for chip-flippers -- those people who buy at low prices with no intention of keeping/using the chips, instead planning to resell the chips at higher prices for a tidy profit with very little risk.

The downside of the situation is that many chippers who want three things (1-support TCR acquisition/sales efforts, 2-benefit from Jim's generosity to the chipping community, and 3-obtain/keep great chips) are prevented from doing so, because the supply of said chips is not limitless (if they were limitless, there would be no secondary re-sale market). This is where the resentment arises, from chippers who were denied chips because of the profit/greed motivation of others.

The solution is simple, although it may not be much better in terms of affordability. If TCR would sell each and every chip to the highest bidder, then several arguably positive things occur:
1. TCR makes maximum profit on their investment (labor, goods, transportation, and legal costs). I don't think anybody here would argue with this, certainly not me.
2. It kills the secondary chip market, at least in terms of inflated prices. The prices are already as high as anybody is willing to pay, since they were sold on a free market auction.
3. Chips generally end up in the hands of chippers who want them for play/collection, and rarely in the hands of chip flippers (who now have no financial incentive to buy low and sell high.

Personally, I'd rather the massive profits go to the source (TCR) than to the financial mercenaries who buy only to make a profit at the expense of the chipping community at large. The chips themselves will almost always end up where they "should", eventually. It's just a matter of who gets the money.

By extension, this can be emulated by chippers always selling chips at auction to the highest bidder, and forgoing the Buy-It-Now option and selling chips for pre-set prices. It probably won't help with the issue of high prices, but it pretty much takes the dedicated chip-flippers out of the equation.