Another HCL scandal? (2 Viewers)

JMC9389 said:
Who the hell plays in a game, let alone gets a whole table of players to be ok with someone bringing their own decks of cards to a game where millions of dollars are at stake?
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Yeah, that was the detail that got me wondering.

Someone asks to bring their own deck to my game, that’s not just a hard “no.” It’s a “disinvite permanently.”

I was listening to Berkey’s show for the first time in a while, to see what he’d say about this. The show is pretty annoying—mostly them laughing too hard at each other’s bad jokes. But he’s generally good on this topic, having a certain tech background and also a lot of private game experience.

Berkey said avoids 99% of high stakes L.A. and Vegas private games, because he says cheating is so rampant in them. He says this is usually organized by the hosts, including not just card mechanics or signaling, but undisclosed staking of several players in the game to inflate pots and gang up on the marks.

He added that even games he’d had recommended to him by friends he trusted usually turned out to be dirty. As a result, he apparently sticks mainly to casino settings, and a few rare home games with people he knows very, very well.

Interestingly, he said that strong professional players are often the main marks in these games. The whales are there to make the game look juicy. But he said the pros are paradoxically easy marks because their confidence in their ability to outplay weaker players makes them less likely to catch the cheating until it’s too late.

He also said that the simplest way that these hosts cheat their players is simply by not paying. If you lose, you have to pay up fast. If you win, they are going to drag it out, and often never pay up.
 
upNdown said:
But I feel like the more dirty people that are around your game, the less good I feel about your game.
If nothing else, it’s a good reminder that poker is filthy.
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This was another point Berkey made, that the quality of people getting into the HCL lineups has taken a major dip. He said that to him it looks like they are drawing heavily from the sketchiest L.A. private games, and doing no vetting.
 
TheTrout said:
I have never seen or heard of casino cards being marked during production, do casinos order cards like this?

These are sealed, unused, cards from an actual casino that shut down or rebranded. So the casino would have had to order them that way.

Not saying you’re not right but just looking for some evidence here
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I assume it is easy enough to open “sealed decks,” mark them, and find ways to re-seal them that 99.5% of people will never notice (if they even look closely).
 
Taghkanic said:
Yeah, that was the detail that got me wondering.

Someone asks to bring their own deck to my game, that’s not just a hard “no.” It’s a “disinvite permanently.”

I was listening to Berkey’s show for the first time in a while, to see what he’d say about this. The show is pretty annoying—mostly them laughing too hard at each other’s bad jokes. But he’s generally good on this topic, having a certain tech background and also a lot of private game experience.

Berkey said avoids 99% of high stakes L.A. and Vegas private games, because he says cheating is so rampant in them. He says this is usually organized by the hosts, including not just card mechanics or signaling, but undisclosed staking of several players in the game to inflate pots and gang up on the marks.

He added that even games he’d had recommended to him by friends he trusted usually turned out to be dirty. As a result, he apparently sticks mainly to casino settings, and a few rare home games with people he knows very, very well.

Interestingly, he said that strong professional players are often the main marks in these games. The whales are there to make the game look juicy. But he said the pros are paradoxically easy marks because their confidence in their ability to outplay weaker players makes them less likely to catch the cheating until it’s too late.

He also said that the simplest way that these hosts cheat their players is simply by not paying. If you lose, you have to pay up fast. If you win, they are going to drag it out, and often never pay up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the nice summary. This is a never ending vicious cycle where high stakes home games will probably slow down and unpopular for a bit while this scandal blows over and then new home games with new names will surface again. There's always a sucker.
 
Taghkanic said:
He also said that the simplest way that these hosts cheat their players is simply by not paying. If you lose, you have to pay up fast. If you win, they are going to drag it out, and often never pay up.
Click to expand...
And oh by the way, this is another reason why cash is king. All the young whippersnappers around here seem to love not bringing cash to games and paying electronically. Just another thing to think about, but I want nothing to do with a game that isn’t cash in, cash out.
 
upNdown said:
And oh by the way, this is another reason why cash is king. All the young whippersnappers around here seem to love not bringing cash to games and paying electronically. Just another thing to think about, but I want nothing to do with a game that isn’t cash in, cash out.
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You can roll in with $100k, watch every single person cash in, win money, and still not be paid out yeah?

Lol idk if you’ve run into a deadbeat person/situation before, but just because they have, or even you *know* they have the money, doesn’t mean you’re getting it.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
You can roll in with $100k, watch every single person cash in, win money, and still not be paid out yeah?
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Uh, yeah that’s possible. Do you think that’s what’s actually happening?
BarrieJ3 said:
Lol idk if you’ve run into a deadbeat person/situation before, but just because they have, or even you *know* they have the money, doesn’t mean you’re getting it.
Click to expand...
Yes. That’s exactly why a poker game should be cash in, cash out.

But please let me know how many times you’ve heard of somebody buying into a game with cash and being refused cash for their chips when they were done. I am definitely ignorant to the high stakes private game scene.
 
upNdown said:
Uh, yeah that’s possible. Do you think that’s what’s actually happening?

Yes. That’s exactly why a poker game should be cash in, cash out.

But please let me know how many times you’ve heard of somebody buying into a game with cash and being refused cash for their chips when they were done. I am definitely ignorant to the high stakes private game scene.
Click to expand...
As am I. I'm completely ignorant to almost all things poker.

I'm just guessing that at higher levels it isn't as easy as "everyone brought/bringing cash right?".

One of the only poker things I've ever actually consumed was that 2+2 hundreds of pages long thread about some dude recounting his poker stories. It seemed to be a large part of fiction mixed with some truth, but I think it was more than once where he had an occasion of having cash on hand at what he thought was a solid game and running into issues cashing out or obtaining what he was owed.

Maybe everything's just harder at those bigger games? Mo money mo problems!
 
upNdown said:
Uh, yeah that’s possible. Do you think that’s what’s actually happening?

Yes. That’s exactly why a poker game should be cash in, cash out.

But please let me know how many times you’ve heard of somebody buying into a game with cash and being refused cash for their chips when they were done. I am definitely ignorant to the high stakes private game scene.
Click to expand...

Berkey was saying something slightly different — that the losers are leaned on to pay up right away, but the winners get told they’ll get paid mañana…

It’s been a while since I watched Molly’s game, but my recollection was that at one point she was spending the day after the game going around collecting and making payouts. (That would have been pre-Venmo etc.).

I assume that part of the problem is that it’s a lot easier to get people to lay out 5-7 figures over the course of a night if it goes on a sheet rather having to be ponied up on the spot.
 
Taghkanic said:
Berkey was saying something slightly different — that the losers are leaned on to pay up right away, but the winners get told they’ll get paid mañana…

It’s been a while since I watched Molly’s game, but my recollection was that at one point she was spending the day after the game going around collecting and making payouts. (That would have been pre-Venmo etc.).

I assume that part of the problem is that it’s a lot easier to get people to lay out 5-7 figures over the course of a night if it goes on a sheet rather having to be ponied up on the spot.
Click to expand...
Plus securing a game where a few million is sitting there in cash would be tough.
 
I believe Krish said for his high stakes, the players would send crypto in advance. Seems like a better, faster and safer way to do it.
 
I was listening to Berkey and crew talk about this and they nonchalantly mentioned Krish leaving HCL for unspecified reasons. I did some digging and there was an ep where they were calling him a spot. I don’t know if that was why he stopped but even if he was the spot (I only know Krish from the forum), why would you say that during a game?

Also, it sounds like any game ran by Mars or his group was likely rigged. People not getting paid out, mechanics, etc. They also mentioned a game where Chauncey Billups was involved. Wild.
 

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