A rambling list of my questions (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter khp
- Start date
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
1. Definitely invite them back and learn from them
2. Play as usual but maybe don’t go for the final kill shot unnecessarily. Or I will give them some pointers on faults in their game on another day (not during or immediately after a game). I will also make them aware of their tells if serious/obvious.
3. If you want it to be a friendly inclusive game then Start off on the low side and then try increasing. No one will ever tell you the stakes are too high. They will just stop showing up. If you want a serious game then go to the high stakes and recruit new players based on the stakes. But I think one way or another you need to make a choice and then actively cultivate and manage the game you want otherwise it will fall apart.
FWIW we typically just play .25/.25 $40 (we all have good careers/businesses) but a lot of the guys will play 2/4 the next night or will drop a couple grand on blackjack on a random weeknight yet everyone still plays .25/.25 as respectable relatively serious poker.
4. I was recruited into a game where I knew no one but after about 8 years of playing we are all great friends. It is a friendly game but there is one clear looser “The ATM” and one clear winner we have. Since we play beer stakes money the guy who looses is happy to pay for the entertainment.
5. Leaving early when up. We did have a couple young guns with good job who still live at home with lots of money to burn for the first time in their life who were firing off donkey all-ins right off the bat all over the place and that took a little effort to reign in but we got there.
2. Play as usual but maybe don’t go for the final kill shot unnecessarily. Or I will give them some pointers on faults in their game on another day (not during or immediately after a game). I will also make them aware of their tells if serious/obvious.
3. If you want it to be a friendly inclusive game then Start off on the low side and then try increasing. No one will ever tell you the stakes are too high. They will just stop showing up. If you want a serious game then go to the high stakes and recruit new players based on the stakes. But I think one way or another you need to make a choice and then actively cultivate and manage the game you want otherwise it will fall apart.
FWIW we typically just play .25/.25 $40 (we all have good careers/businesses) but a lot of the guys will play 2/4 the next night or will drop a couple grand on blackjack on a random weeknight yet everyone still plays .25/.25 as respectable relatively serious poker.
4. I was recruited into a game where I knew no one but after about 8 years of playing we are all great friends. It is a friendly game but there is one clear looser “The ATM” and one clear winner we have. Since we play beer stakes money the guy who looses is happy to pay for the entertainment.
5. Leaving early when up. We did have a couple young guns with good job who still live at home with lots of money to burn for the first time in their life who were firing off donkey all-ins right off the bat all over the place and that took a little effort to reign in but we got there.
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Mr Winberg
Full House
- Yes. It would be pathetic not to.
- N/A lol
- You can't please everyone. Whichever decision you make there'll be someone who disapproves. With blinds I would tend to rather have them too low than too high
- Fiends and acquaintances, there are some clear winners and losers, but thanks to my decision regarding (3) everyone is ok with it.
- Squirrels (do a forum search including only the last 1 or two weeks). Also, players slowing down the game, thereby turning my great structured tournaments into turbos.
1 - Yes
2 - No
3 - Have a discussion with your regulars. What is more important, fun, the monetary aspect, or a mix of both? Is choosing higher blinds going to cripple the game in the long run?
4 - It has been a while since live poker and we have been doing online, but I do microstakes with my closest friends and higher with the other group. The enjoyment and competitive spirit is there with the former without the money becoming an issue and everyone is fine with it. Myself and one other almost always come out ahead and are a clear tier or two above the others, but the others seem to be fine with it due to the stakes.
5 - Two biggest pet peeves are (1) people not paying attention to blinds and (2) talking about hands they are not a part of. Both usually correlate with their degree of inebriation.
2 - No
3 - Have a discussion with your regulars. What is more important, fun, the monetary aspect, or a mix of both? Is choosing higher blinds going to cripple the game in the long run?
4 - It has been a while since live poker and we have been doing online, but I do microstakes with my closest friends and higher with the other group. The enjoyment and competitive spirit is there with the former without the money becoming an issue and everyone is fine with it. Myself and one other almost always come out ahead and are a clear tier or two above the others, but the others seem to be fine with it due to the stakes.
5 - Two biggest pet peeves are (1) people not paying attention to blinds and (2) talking about hands they are not a part of. Both usually correlate with their degree of inebriation.
grebe
Full House
1) sure. Get better if you don't want him to beat you.
2) Sandbagging isnt something I would normally do, but yes, I have done it. I got invited to play small stakes in a group that just didnt know poker very well. Ended up giving stacks to the host just so he would keep playing. Normally though, I would rather play another game than poker if I felt bad taking someone's money.
3) be flexible. Try something out...if it doesnt work change it.
4) There will be winners and losers...it's a game of skill. As host, it is not your job to police that. If someone doesnt like losing, they should get better. If they are ok donking off a buyin or two (or more) a week, why would you intervene in how they spend their play money?
5) Obnoxious people. Weird house rules that take away integrity of the game. Smoking. Huge rake.
2) Sandbagging isnt something I would normally do, but yes, I have done it. I got invited to play small stakes in a group that just didnt know poker very well. Ended up giving stacks to the host just so he would keep playing. Normally though, I would rather play another game than poker if I felt bad taking someone's money.
3) be flexible. Try something out...if it doesnt work change it.
4) There will be winners and losers...it's a game of skill. As host, it is not your job to police that. If someone doesnt like losing, they should get better. If they are ok donking off a buyin or two (or more) a week, why would you intervene in how they spend their play money?
5) Obnoxious people. Weird house rules that take away integrity of the game. Smoking. Huge rake.
Welcome! I'm in similar predicaments at times as I have a range of regulars in terms of what stakes they're comfortable playing at. To answer your questions:
1. I would absolutely keep inviting them. Regardless of skill level of the other players, a good player or two is good for the game. The players that may not be as skilled, as long as they're paying attention, will with time get better and adapt their own strategies with time as they get to feel out how other players play hands in different situations.
I've been playing with the same group of guys for the better part of the past 15 years. Early on it was a lot of preflop limping with only the occasional raise or bluff post flop. A lot of times, though, lots would play like passive calling stations waiting for their draw to hit in a NLHE game. It was like playing bingo. Over the past year and a half especially, the quality of play has improved dramatically. Lots more preflop action, deeper stacked and more skill based play, and a lot more raising, check raising, and bluffs post flop.
2. I absolutely do not. Just because I or another player may win a big hand from outplaying a weaker player, does not mean that they won't suck out on me later. I get my money in good when I have the cards to do so regardless of competition.
3. If you have a range of players in terms of what they're comfortable gambling, always go towards lower stakes when in doubt. I think you'll find that the players with bigger bankrolls will still come even at the microstakes even if they regularly are a 1/2 or 2/5 casino player if the company is good, but that you'll lose players and may not get them back if the action is too much for them. I'm of the belief that home games are primarily social and that one can go to the casino if they're going to play like a shark if the only intent is to make some money.
I would discuss stakes with your players directly and what everyone is comfortable with losing in a given night. If they're comfortable with losing less than 200 big blinds or two full buy ins in a cash game at the present stakes, then your stakes are too high.
4. Yes, my primary group of regulars and I have been playing against each other since high school. On any given night we have anywhere from 5 to 7 players out of a pool of about 9 or 10 regulars. Out of that, I'd say that there are only 2 that consistently win, but don't necessarily obliterate the competition. A player like me will either double or triple up or lose two buy ins in a given night, which is where most of the group falls, with only one or two of the remainder of players that are in the red more often than not. That being said, everyone comes back to play as the game is more our social time with poker mixed in.
5. I love one of my better friends to death that comes to play, but he talks...a lot. Sometimes that slows down the action and its a couple of minutes sometimes before he makes his action before he either realizes it's on him or before he finishes his story to move the game along. Winning a big pot and cashing out right away would rub me the wrong way but that does not happen in my game.
Others are annoyed by rabbit hunting and a couple of my players like to do it, but it doesn't bother me if they do. I love seeing them go on tilt if they see they would have hit their draw that they folded lol
1. I would absolutely keep inviting them. Regardless of skill level of the other players, a good player or two is good for the game. The players that may not be as skilled, as long as they're paying attention, will with time get better and adapt their own strategies with time as they get to feel out how other players play hands in different situations.
I've been playing with the same group of guys for the better part of the past 15 years. Early on it was a lot of preflop limping with only the occasional raise or bluff post flop. A lot of times, though, lots would play like passive calling stations waiting for their draw to hit in a NLHE game. It was like playing bingo. Over the past year and a half especially, the quality of play has improved dramatically. Lots more preflop action, deeper stacked and more skill based play, and a lot more raising, check raising, and bluffs post flop.
2. I absolutely do not. Just because I or another player may win a big hand from outplaying a weaker player, does not mean that they won't suck out on me later. I get my money in good when I have the cards to do so regardless of competition.
3. If you have a range of players in terms of what they're comfortable gambling, always go towards lower stakes when in doubt. I think you'll find that the players with bigger bankrolls will still come even at the microstakes even if they regularly are a 1/2 or 2/5 casino player if the company is good, but that you'll lose players and may not get them back if the action is too much for them. I'm of the belief that home games are primarily social and that one can go to the casino if they're going to play like a shark if the only intent is to make some money.
I would discuss stakes with your players directly and what everyone is comfortable with losing in a given night. If they're comfortable with losing less than 200 big blinds or two full buy ins in a cash game at the present stakes, then your stakes are too high.
4. Yes, my primary group of regulars and I have been playing against each other since high school. On any given night we have anywhere from 5 to 7 players out of a pool of about 9 or 10 regulars. Out of that, I'd say that there are only 2 that consistently win, but don't necessarily obliterate the competition. A player like me will either double or triple up or lose two buy ins in a given night, which is where most of the group falls, with only one or two of the remainder of players that are in the red more often than not. That being said, everyone comes back to play as the game is more our social time with poker mixed in.
5. I love one of my better friends to death that comes to play, but he talks...a lot. Sometimes that slows down the action and its a couple of minutes sometimes before he makes his action before he either realizes it's on him or before he finishes his story to move the game along. Winning a big pot and cashing out right away would rub me the wrong way but that does not happen in my game.
Others are annoyed by rabbit hunting and a couple of my players like to do it, but it doesn't bother me if they do. I love seeing them go on tilt if they see they would have hit their draw that they folded lol
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RudysNYC
Flush
1) Yes, absolutely. I play home poker primarily have fun; if it was about the money and not the fun, I’d go to any card room or casino
2) I’ve never sandbagged a game, but I have either checked or simply called last street to save my friends a few bucks. They’ve gotten infinitely better now that they’ve been watching lots of hands on PokerGO, but there are still a lot of finer points of poker that I’m better than most of my friends at. I think you’re an a$$hole if you tank a game, but I think sparing your friends carnage when theyre weaker players can be acceptable. Caveat though, since my friends play to get better and are open to suggestions, I’ll generally tell them after the hand is done what I would’ve done and what they could’ve done better.
3) in my experience the small stakes play big and the higher stakes play smaller. I usually play 25¢/50¢ with my guys (were all post-grads in our first real jobs) and it often plays somewhere between .50/1 and 1/3, but when we play 1/2, it’s a nitfest of epic proportions.
If anything, allow for deep stack small stakes.
4) Yes, I play in a routine home game with my close friends, and YES there are there clear winners and losers. Since we all started playing together, it’s generally been either me or the Wall St quant analysis guy winning fat. There’s one big fish who knows he’s a fish, and a couple other guys who are probably overall even. Everybody’s cool with it because a) we all know we are at different places in our poker journeys and b) were all friends and focused on getting better. My dad taught me how to play blackjack when I was 4 and I’ve been serious/meticulous about gambling since I got my first bookie in high school, while my finance friend is a fucking quant analyst at a huge Wall St institution—nobody’s surprised we’re the two best at poker. The rest of my guys didn’t know how to calculate pot odds until a few months ago. Our game is in good spirit and even better fun, zero hard feelings ever
5) There are three things that drive me up the wall. I hate it when people shuffle overhand and bend the shit out of the cards. I hate it when people don’t know how to check their hole cards without creasing the cards. I hate it MOST when people take the cards off the table to shuffle or to check their hole cards.
2) I’ve never sandbagged a game, but I have either checked or simply called last street to save my friends a few bucks. They’ve gotten infinitely better now that they’ve been watching lots of hands on PokerGO, but there are still a lot of finer points of poker that I’m better than most of my friends at. I think you’re an a$$hole if you tank a game, but I think sparing your friends carnage when theyre weaker players can be acceptable. Caveat though, since my friends play to get better and are open to suggestions, I’ll generally tell them after the hand is done what I would’ve done and what they could’ve done better.
3) in my experience the small stakes play big and the higher stakes play smaller. I usually play 25¢/50¢ with my guys (were all post-grads in our first real jobs) and it often plays somewhere between .50/1 and 1/3, but when we play 1/2, it’s a nitfest of epic proportions.
If anything, allow for deep stack small stakes.
4) Yes, I play in a routine home game with my close friends, and YES there are there clear winners and losers. Since we all started playing together, it’s generally been either me or the Wall St quant analysis guy winning fat. There’s one big fish who knows he’s a fish, and a couple other guys who are probably overall even. Everybody’s cool with it because a) we all know we are at different places in our poker journeys and b) were all friends and focused on getting better. My dad taught me how to play blackjack when I was 4 and I’ve been serious/meticulous about gambling since I got my first bookie in high school, while my finance friend is a fucking quant analyst at a huge Wall St institution—nobody’s surprised we’re the two best at poker. The rest of my guys didn’t know how to calculate pot odds until a few months ago. Our game is in good spirit and even better fun, zero hard feelings ever
5) There are three things that drive me up the wall. I hate it when people shuffle overhand and bend the shit out of the cards. I hate it when people don’t know how to check their hole cards without creasing the cards. I hate it MOST when people take the cards off the table to shuffle or to check their hole cards.
bigdonkey
Straight
1. Depends. If it is truly a friendly game, then absolutely yes. If you are running some high stakes game with the intent of making legit money, with an invite list that includes players well removed from just friends and family, then I could see not inviting him back. Table selection, basically. No different than going into a casino and choosing not to sit at a table with a dominant player.
2. Why would I feel bad about taking their money? That is the point of the game. However, I can understand being concerned about taking too much money too frequently and driving them away. I set the stakes low enough that losing a couple of buy-ins doesn't hurt. As @grebe said, maybe not put in extra raises against a noob who doesn't know better. But not for more than a night or two. At some point they have to feel the sting of playing poorly to realize the consequences of playing poorly.
3. After 3 years of strictly tournament play, I've been able to transition to a cash game. It's taken about 5 tournaments to figure out stakes/betting limits that work well enough for everyone. It's lower than I would prefer, but it's what gets me a full table. One or two of the old-guard would like to play higher, and a couple of the newer guy too. If I can recruit enough new players to get a higher-stakes game, then I would run a higher-stakes night and lower-stakes night. If my wife restricted me to only one night, then it would higher-stakes only. Nothing stopping someone else from hosting the lower-stakes night at their house, which I would gladly attend, and help run if needed.
4. Good friends only, definitely winners and losers. But they are new enough to the game that the losers might not realize it yet. But again, we play small enough that some have told me they come out expecting to lose, and they are okay with it to hang out for a night.
5. 1) Dudes that fold pre-flop, then sit and watch the rest of the hand. Then they get up to get a snack, use the bathroom, whatever, and expect us to wait for them to get back to their seat. You just sat on your ass and wasted 3 minutes. Learn to use your time efficiently. 2)Talking when its your action. I don't mind it nearly as badly now that we play cash. One of the biggest reasons I got away from hosting tournaments, actually. A great friend from high school would spend 90 seconds telling a story every time action got to him, then spend another 45 seconds tanking over whether he wanted to limp pre-flop with T2o on level I. Now he tanks over whether he wants to limp pre-flop with T2o for 10 cents, but at least there is no clock fucking up my game.
2. Why would I feel bad about taking their money? That is the point of the game. However, I can understand being concerned about taking too much money too frequently and driving them away. I set the stakes low enough that losing a couple of buy-ins doesn't hurt. As @grebe said, maybe not put in extra raises against a noob who doesn't know better. But not for more than a night or two. At some point they have to feel the sting of playing poorly to realize the consequences of playing poorly.
3. After 3 years of strictly tournament play, I've been able to transition to a cash game. It's taken about 5 tournaments to figure out stakes/betting limits that work well enough for everyone. It's lower than I would prefer, but it's what gets me a full table. One or two of the old-guard would like to play higher, and a couple of the newer guy too. If I can recruit enough new players to get a higher-stakes game, then I would run a higher-stakes night and lower-stakes night. If my wife restricted me to only one night, then it would higher-stakes only. Nothing stopping someone else from hosting the lower-stakes night at their house, which I would gladly attend, and help run if needed.
4. Good friends only, definitely winners and losers. But they are new enough to the game that the losers might not realize it yet. But again, we play small enough that some have told me they come out expecting to lose, and they are okay with it to hang out for a night.
5. 1) Dudes that fold pre-flop, then sit and watch the rest of the hand. Then they get up to get a snack, use the bathroom, whatever, and expect us to wait for them to get back to their seat. You just sat on your ass and wasted 3 minutes. Learn to use your time efficiently. 2)Talking when its your action. I don't mind it nearly as badly now that we play cash. One of the biggest reasons I got away from hosting tournaments, actually. A great friend from high school would spend 90 seconds telling a story every time action got to him, then spend another 45 seconds tanking over whether he wanted to limp pre-flop with T2o on level I. Now he tanks over whether he wants to limp pre-flop with T2o for 10 cents, but at least there is no clock fucking up my game.
MrCatPants
Full House
1) Depends - I don't go out of my way to recruit these players, that's for sure. New "crushers" tends to accelerate losses for weaker players and you'll have people as others have mentioned mysteriously stop responding/stop showing up when losses get too high and frequent.
2) Almost never, but I may sandbag against a newbie novice in their first game - as others have mentioned just not go for the kill shot.
3) Depends on your friends. I inherited a game that was .25/.25 with $20 buy-ins. People would freak out at a preflop 3-bet and complain, if someone put $10 in the middle on a later street they were considered 'wild'. I moved it to .25/.50 with $40 buyins and lost half those players in the first year. For serious money, go to a casino - don't try to turn a social home game into an casino or underground game.
4) Most of us have been playing together for a long time. They know who is generally winning and generally losing, but they have no idea the scale and scope (and this is why you'll hear most hosts tell people tracking/posting stats is a bad idea). Since we moved online and play more often, there's two players in my game who have cleared north of 20,000 big blinds over the last year. People know who those two are, but have no idea of the magnitude - a couple of my losing players were discussing one of the two players and hypothesized that that person must have won about 3,000-5,000 big blinds over the year. In the words of major league....just a bit outside. I didn't correct them.
5) Disrespecting the premises is #1 - you are a guest, act like it. Being a dick is #2 - it's a social game, and no one wants to deal with an asshole during their social time. #3 is not paying attention and regularly grinding the game to a crawling speed.
2) Almost never, but I may sandbag against a newbie novice in their first game - as others have mentioned just not go for the kill shot.
3) Depends on your friends. I inherited a game that was .25/.25 with $20 buy-ins. People would freak out at a preflop 3-bet and complain, if someone put $10 in the middle on a later street they were considered 'wild'. I moved it to .25/.50 with $40 buyins and lost half those players in the first year. For serious money, go to a casino - don't try to turn a social home game into an casino or underground game.
4) Most of us have been playing together for a long time. They know who is generally winning and generally losing, but they have no idea the scale and scope (and this is why you'll hear most hosts tell people tracking/posting stats is a bad idea). Since we moved online and play more often, there's two players in my game who have cleared north of 20,000 big blinds over the last year. People know who those two are, but have no idea of the magnitude - a couple of my losing players were discussing one of the two players and hypothesized that that person must have won about 3,000-5,000 big blinds over the year. In the words of major league....just a bit outside. I didn't correct them.
5) Disrespecting the premises is #1 - you are a guest, act like it. Being a dick is #2 - it's a social game, and no one wants to deal with an asshole during their social time. #3 is not paying attention and regularly grinding the game to a crawling speed.
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This is a great solution, but it will give an advantage to better players. I’d much rather play .25/.50 with 400bbs than 1/2 with 100 bbs
detroitdad
Royal Flush
1. Yes. The only way you don't get invited back is if your an asshole and I don't enjoy playing cards with you. When I host, my goal is to have fun!
2. No
3. If you can only host one game/one set of stakes then you have to find a balance that will bring the most people to the game. Otherwise rotate nights with different stakes.
4. Most of my group has known each other for a decade plus and we have a lot of hands vs each other. I don't think there are any clear winners in our group. Probably @mike32 . @Marc Hedrick is also a pretty damn good player.
5. Nothing egregious really happens at my games. I recently had a guy vaping in my basement after I asked him not to. I chatted with him the next day and we were good. Respect my shit, have fun, occasionally bring a bottle to donate to the game and we'll be good to go.
1. As a host you have a duty to protect the engines of your game. Every zoo (the game) needs 1 or 2 zoo keepers (tight good players), but it definitely needs zoo animals (action guys). Nobody comes to the zoo to see the zoo keepers! But u can’t have 8 zoo animals - I tried it, it’s a complete shit show. Playing in a home game is a privilege, not a right. So, good players that play in my game know they must give plenty of action over the course of the night, or else they will get relegated to the B or C list. Tight no action players (aka bed bugs) will not get an invite. Your duty to protect the zoo animals is paramount.
2. Never intentionally dump. Winning money is the point of poker. But you can do some things to help bad players. One thing we sometimes do for really bad/new players is allow them to go south over a certain amount. So if they happen to win a big pot, they can take a certain amount of money off the table to limit the ultimate loss. Another thing is to set up the line up so they can make mistakes over the course of the night and still get even or win. Go back to point one - protect the zoo animals.
3. The blinds should be set at the amount YOU are comfortable with. It’s your game. Once u set the blinds, people will come. I will say though once you go above micro stakes, you will face different issues .... like extending credit.
4. We have a decent size group that are all friends. In that group there are zoo keepers and zoo animals. We have a few guys who know they are going to lose but can afford it so they don’t mind. But they don’t want to feel out gunned. They deserve action. We have a few others that are ultra aggressive, that win big or lose big in any given week. Everyone seems okay with the game. Sometimes people voluntarily admit themselves into the poker hospital. Sometimes they are placed there involuntarily. It’s the circle of poker life.
5. Boy, I could write a book answering this question:
A. Take a dump at your own house, unless it’s an emergency.
b. Put ur trash in the trash can. Not on the floor, on the table, on the couch, etc.
c. Be on time to the game!
d. Don’t bend the cards or rip them. They cost money.
e. Don’t open a beverage, drink half and then open another one.
f. Don’t open a new bag of pretzels when there is already a bag opened.
g. Don’t stick your dirty hands in the snacks. Pour it in a cup.
h. Take a shower before u come over. Don’t come directly from working out or playing a sport. U will be in close contact with 8-10 other for a long period of time. Don’t be stinky!
i. Clean up ur cigarettes. Do not throw them or leave them in my yard.
j. Do not have conversations about anything on my front yard at 4 am after the game. My neighbors don’t give a shit about your bad beats.
I could go on forever ..... but you get the idea
Great discussion and enjoyed reading this thread.
To the OP's questions:
1. Absolutely invite that person back. You want the best competition at the table and other players eventually start getting better because of it. Well, ideally.
2. I like this question because you will have a wide range of experience levels at your game. If I’m in a hand with experienced players, like the group of my players I know spend time at the casinos, the gloves are off and I’ll make a wide variety of hyper-aggressive moves. Local KC PCFers @Grandmasturkey, @tdccarpenter and @Chester Copperpot have quickly become regs at my home game in recent months and I know we have no problem going after each other’s stacks at the table (side note: @Grandmasturkey felted me at the last home game. The North remembers!). @MIZ and I have played poker together for more than a decade and we go to war with each other in home games. It's a friendly home game table rivalry thing.
But with any novice players new to the game because I’ve had a few at my table over the years –– like I’m sure everyone else has –– I lean to playing them straight up and will pull punches during preflop and postflop action. That last part is especially true if I know I have them crushed on the river and can take their stack when I know they’ll call with just a pair despite a straight or flush on the board. While I am trying to win their money, I don’t want them feeling discouraged with no desire to learn when the game is over.
3. You’ll definitely want to talk it over with your group. Consider doing different blind levels and separate games for individual groups if your invitation pool is deep and that's what people want. I have a deep pool of players and run .25/.50, 1/2 and an occasional 2/5. Not everyone will play the latter game and some of the .25/.50 regs won’t play the 1/2 game. Gauge the comfort level of your group.
4. My game has a good mix of good friends, co-workers, colleagues and even friends from the casino. We have our share of clear winners and losers at each session, and everyone is OK with either scenario. We know losses, winnings and swings come with the game. As the true and tired statement goes whenever there’s a massive suckout: “That’s poker.”
5. No major pet peeve at my home game. Everyone who plays knows what to expect and anyone new to the game always receives a PDF via email of my detailed house rules, so there aren’t any surprises. I like to provide a welcoming environment and everyone respects the house and equipment, so I haven’t had any major issues.
To the OP's questions:
1. Absolutely invite that person back. You want the best competition at the table and other players eventually start getting better because of it. Well, ideally.
2. I like this question because you will have a wide range of experience levels at your game. If I’m in a hand with experienced players, like the group of my players I know spend time at the casinos, the gloves are off and I’ll make a wide variety of hyper-aggressive moves. Local KC PCFers @Grandmasturkey, @tdccarpenter and @Chester Copperpot have quickly become regs at my home game in recent months and I know we have no problem going after each other’s stacks at the table (side note: @Grandmasturkey felted me at the last home game. The North remembers!). @MIZ and I have played poker together for more than a decade and we go to war with each other in home games. It's a friendly home game table rivalry thing.
But with any novice players new to the game because I’ve had a few at my table over the years –– like I’m sure everyone else has –– I lean to playing them straight up and will pull punches during preflop and postflop action. That last part is especially true if I know I have them crushed on the river and can take their stack when I know they’ll call with just a pair despite a straight or flush on the board. While I am trying to win their money, I don’t want them feeling discouraged with no desire to learn when the game is over.
3. You’ll definitely want to talk it over with your group. Consider doing different blind levels and separate games for individual groups if your invitation pool is deep and that's what people want. I have a deep pool of players and run .25/.50, 1/2 and an occasional 2/5. Not everyone will play the latter game and some of the .25/.50 regs won’t play the 1/2 game. Gauge the comfort level of your group.
4. My game has a good mix of good friends, co-workers, colleagues and even friends from the casino. We have our share of clear winners and losers at each session, and everyone is OK with either scenario. We know losses, winnings and swings come with the game. As the true and tired statement goes whenever there’s a massive suckout: “That’s poker.”
5. No major pet peeve at my home game. Everyone who plays knows what to expect and anyone new to the game always receives a PDF via email of my detailed house rules, so there aren’t any surprises. I like to provide a welcoming environment and everyone respects the house and equipment, so I haven’t had any major issues.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Yes, but nobody I know is that good to warrant the issue, nor is anyone bad enough where they would every ask me to do that to someone.
No. And frankly, players that want to playing in games that others host should hope the host is at least somewhat competent at poker or the game won't last long term. I don't take it easy on hosts when I am the guest, but I know all of the hosts that have had long term games are at least decent players.
In NL you should set the buy in at a point where most players are willing to buy in 2-3 times. That's where you know your game will be healthy. This number is smaller than most people assume.
Since the income range is wide, is it possible to spread two games with different levels on different nights. If not, compromise and trial and error is the only answer here.
Everyone that plays in my home game consents to the risk, so I never worry too much about winners and losers. I could see having a conversation with someone I know to be over their head, but that hasn't come up.
Really etiquette and decorum are the entire list for me on pet peeves. Super long tanking frequently is the only thing I would worry about, but frankly I am probably more guilty than any other players on that on average
.
Mr Winberg
Full House
Regarding #5 and wasting time, I have an add-on to mine:
When people fake tank too long. Ffs people, this is not 2004, nobody is buying it anymore!! Like fake tanking for two minutes, sighing, then the inevitable "I guess I'm all in..." in a sad voice. If anyone is fooled by that (big if!), then a 20 second tank would have been enough!!
Same with people trying to disguise their bluffs:
Player A bluffs
Player B raises
Player A fake tanks for 3 minutes, speculating verbally on B's holdings, before the inevitable fold with a "Naaaahhh...I guess I'll have to give you this one...."
In my written house rules (and I'm not kidding) I actually literally have:
"Fake tanking is a part of poker and is allowed, but please don't fake tank too long, you are stealing time from everyone. And nobody believes you anyway."
When people fake tank too long. Ffs people, this is not 2004, nobody is buying it anymore!! Like fake tanking for two minutes, sighing, then the inevitable "I guess I'm all in..." in a sad voice. If anyone is fooled by that (big if!), then a 20 second tank would have been enough!!
Same with people trying to disguise their bluffs:
Player A bluffs
Player B raises
Player A fake tanks for 3 minutes, speculating verbally on B's holdings, before the inevitable fold with a "Naaaahhh...I guess I'll have to give you this one...."
In my written house rules (and I'm not kidding) I actually literally have:
"Fake tanking is a part of poker and is allowed, but please don't fake tank too long, you are stealing time from everyone. And nobody believes you anyway."
Ugh, I hate people that do this with the stone cold nuts.
Like, you have it, no need for the theatrics.
I call it the ESPN rule. I have this written in my house rules:
"When it is your turn to act, do so in a timely manner. We are not at the WSOP Main Event and there are no TV cameras, so you are not on-air to a televised ESPN audience. Please be considerate of others at the table. Any player can call for time after a reasonable amount of time has passed, which for my home game purposes is defined as up to two minutes."
Alex Lundstrum
Two Pair
If it's a social game, set buy-ins at a point that winning/losing multiple buy-ins isn't an issue. Then keep the crusher on the invite list. If you are just starting to grow a game, could consider excluding if you notice people are saying away from games with the crusher, but that should be a last resort.
Absolutely if it's a new game you are growing. When I first started my coworker game, it became very obvious I could play circles around them. Part of my challenge in that game was tuning my winrate to break even plus pay for snacks. If you are going to sandbag, make sure you do so equally for all players.
Not sure there is a "too small" especially if using chips and not actual change. Competitive people want to win regardless of absolute value.
I've done both. For the coworker game, there were a few clear winners, but no clear losers, which always kept the game good. Acquaintance games, there are both clear winners and losers. So long as the losers keep showing up, it means the entertainment is worth the loss.
Last second cancelling for "better plans." Many people don't realize that there are limited seats and that their cancellation means someone didn't get a seat that wanted one.
MIZ
Sitting Out
1) I would never disinvite someone to a game due to their success but if it starts to disrupt the game it’s worth a conversation. Had this conversation recently with someone: What do you do when you have a disconnect between people at your game who want to play poker vs people who want to play cards? If you have a fun home game and someone starts disrupting the atmosphere because they are too good or not good enough, a heart-to-heart about it isn’t out of line to me.
2) I’ve taken a dive on occasion. I’ve called someone I know rivered me because I had been dominating them and wanted to keep them in the game because we were having fun. I’ve pulled punches because I know I have someone beat and don’t want to take their stack. Of course on occasion it backfires. I made a small river bet with the nuts in a friendly game and told the guy to fold and he came over the top all in and I had to call.
3) I know this makes me a pariah with at least half the PCF community, but I love tournaments because it makes bankroll behind you largely irrelevant. I don’t know that blinds matter as much as the buy-in and the maximum rebuys. Setting a reasonable cap that everyone is comfortable with enhances strategic options.
4) Again, I think a fixed cap buy-in or a tournament format soothes the drama a bit. In my weekly home game, we’ve had someone win six tournaments in a row on a couple of occasions, and we’ve had players go months without cashing. Everyone is comfortable with the caps, and we stay friends. It’s when people get out of their comfort with losses that drama comes into play.
5) Clean up after yourself at the end of the game and don’t leave a mess. All I ask.
2) I’ve taken a dive on occasion. I’ve called someone I know rivered me because I had been dominating them and wanted to keep them in the game because we were having fun. I’ve pulled punches because I know I have someone beat and don’t want to take their stack. Of course on occasion it backfires. I made a small river bet with the nuts in a friendly game and told the guy to fold and he came over the top all in and I had to call.
3) I know this makes me a pariah with at least half the PCF community, but I love tournaments because it makes bankroll behind you largely irrelevant. I don’t know that blinds matter as much as the buy-in and the maximum rebuys. Setting a reasonable cap that everyone is comfortable with enhances strategic options.
4) Again, I think a fixed cap buy-in or a tournament format soothes the drama a bit. In my weekly home game, we’ve had someone win six tournaments in a row on a couple of occasions, and we’ve had players go months without cashing. Everyone is comfortable with the caps, and we stay friends. It’s when people get out of their comfort with losses that drama comes into play.
5) Clean up after yourself at the end of the game and don’t leave a mess. All I ask.
1. Definitely always invite him. He 's a teacher and possibly a pivotal person for further recruitment of players truly interested in the game.
2. You never soft-play anyone. It's dishonest to the rest of the players in a given hand.
My ideal proposal would be to invite the clueless friends for at least one tutorial evening - no game.
The sad reality is they won't be interested. I try to give away some "white meat" after the end of a hand, showing too many of my own hands, explaining why and how (this is meaningful only in the situation you described, where the crew is generally clueless and good friends of yours). I may give some 3-minute tutorial lecture before the game, too.
It's amazing how an un-talented player like me can be clearly superior to some of his good friends who haven't read any book about poker.
3. Eternal un-resolved problem. Find a balance between blinds with some bite (so unaffordable buy-ins) and meaningless blinds with affordable buy-ins. You 'll most probably have to split players into two groups.
4. If you 're interested in poker, it's just not possible to rely on friends. Friends love you, but they may just not be interested that much in the game, or have financial issues, or have young children, or, most importantly, wives (the Scourge of the Universe).
Healthy games are built around poker buddies (vetted acquaintances). Always Recruit is the motto.
5. Democracy should stop at the threshold of my home's door.
Invitees should be able to understand that they 're not a constituency and that they 're sitting on private property.
The fuckin' Demos (the People) should and indeed do make decisions on what happens outside that door.
Inside, I 'm the King or Tyrant - you name it. The rules are set by myself, and my rulings are final.
My 2 cents...and take some salt with it, as I don't have nearly half the experience as most people here as a host.
1. & 2.: I think these problems can be controlled by having the appropriate blinds, or try tournaments. The pro.s of tournaments include having a set amount of cost for the night, with a bonus of maybe winning some money back! But if people know what they are going to risk, they are able to come to terms with it.
3.: Related, but I think you have to target your smallest players. Tournaments may also help out here, in that, even if it's a small buy-in tourney, there is the glory. For example, say you have a crusher at your game. The buy-in is $15. Most are happy with that, but there are a few big fish who make $200k+ a year, who think it's not really worth playing for less than $100. Well, if it's a tournament, they pay their $15, and end up fighting for the glory, to make the money, to be #1! You won't really get that affect with cash games. You might just get people shoving on anything because they don't give a crap about the stakes, but in a tourney, they want to keep playing and will play smarter/tighter because of that.
4.: I'm trying to get a game established of all friends, or friends of friends. We play for the social aspect and for the game, not for the money.
5.: The "maybe"s. I think everyone on here already knows this, but when someone invites you to a poker night, or anything for that matter, GIVE THEM A STRAIGHT ANSWER IMMEDIATELY. "Yes I can make it! Pysched!" "No, I'm out of town that night, but please invite me next time, I would certainly play if available!" "Maybe, I have to check with the boss, I'll let you know first thing tomorrow morning." All of these show a genuine interest in wanting to attend.
The worst are the "maybe, I'm not sure yet" - WTF does that mean? Should I fill your seat and then you'll be mad about it later? No talk of WHEN you'll find out and let me know.
Also bad, the ghosters - official invite, followed by text messages probing for answers, followed by more probes, just nadda. What a dick! Don't want to come, that's fine, say no. If you come in with a 2 day before "yes" when I've been pinging you for a week and half with no response I'm really hoping the game is full so I can drop a "fuck you, we're full" message, LOL.
And probably the ABSOLUTE worst, people who RSVP yes, and no-show without a valid reason. Look, if you are bleeding, dying, throwing up, or have SARS-CoV-2, or a death in the family - I get it, PLEASE don't come. Let me know ASAP. But just no-show, no text, no excuse? How rude is that? I haven't had to deal with them yet, but that's grounds for automatic kicking to the F-list. The F-list isn't a thing, but it should be where they get invited to an event at a person's house who then doesn't hold the event...they show up ready to go, and no one answers the door - how do you like it? LOL.
Dugthefish
3 of a Kind
Good tipper: yes
Bad/no tipper: yes, but he may not be at the top of the invite list (depends on HOW fun he is while taking my money).
Never. My goal is to completely own my friends for future berating.
Find a happy medium, or alternate buy in sizes each week. I recommend the former, maybe set the limit around $30 in your 10-100 example. Small enough the small guys could cautiously play (perhaps less often), but hopefully big enough that the bigger guys don't get bored and lose respect for the stakes. $.25/.25 maybe.
The regulars all know who wins and who loses long term. No one ever feels bad winning, and no one holds grudges when losing. Several of us have been playing together for 15 years and are best friends, and nothing beats taking their money.
As a host:
Not using garbage cans
Canceling last minute
Not removing your chip to recheck cards
Leaving early
Not tipping when you have a huge night
Dugthefish
3 of a Kind
This is perfect
Thanks everyone for the replies! It seems there’s a consensus around most topics and that makes things easy.
I never knew tipping was a thing for home games! Personally, I would be offended if someone tipped me, but feel free to bring food/drink for the group!
Regarding tipping - I’m guessing this applies to raked games?
I never knew tipping was a thing for home games! Personally, I would be offended if someone tipped me, but feel free to bring food/drink for the group!
Regarding tipping - I’m guessing this applies to raked games?
Dugthefish
3 of a Kind
byline9
Pair
Most of the answers are already here! My thoughts:
1. Definitely invite him back. Everyone should try to watch what he's doing, learn, and get better - or go on losing if that's OK with them.
2. Maybe not sandbag but just take it a bit easy on them until they get better, don't be hyper aggressive and scare them off. "You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once." - Amarillo Slim
3. Start low and then gradually increase the stakes.
4. I'm not currently playing in a weekly game, but mine have always been with friends and coworkers for low stakes where we were just there for the fun (and the beer). If it's a bigger game with a variety of players, there will be regular winners and losers, and everyone needs to be OK with that - or stop coming.
5. Pet peeves: everything already mentioned especially (IMHO) talking about hands they are not a part of.
1. Definitely invite him back. Everyone should try to watch what he's doing, learn, and get better - or go on losing if that's OK with them.
2. Maybe not sandbag but just take it a bit easy on them until they get better, don't be hyper aggressive and scare them off. "You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once." - Amarillo Slim
3. Start low and then gradually increase the stakes.
4. I'm not currently playing in a weekly game, but mine have always been with friends and coworkers for low stakes where we were just there for the fun (and the beer). If it's a bigger game with a variety of players, there will be regular winners and losers, and everyone needs to be OK with that - or stop coming.
5. Pet peeves: everything already mentioned especially (IMHO) talking about hands they are not a part of.
Do you have a tip jar? I would have never known that it was an option if I were at your game.
Dugthefish
3 of a Kind
No. Some players will just round down at cash out, $248 to $240 or something and say keep the change. A couple throw a $20 when they sit down, some throw a $20 at the end of the night. And some players will dig in their pocket and give me a couple singles so they can cash out in even $20 increments.
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
1) always inviting fun nice people
2) fuck no I’m always giving it 100%
3) set blinds so that folks aren’t too uncomfortable
4) yes there are some clear losers in our game, I’m certainly ok with it, they must be also because they don’t seem to want to improve
5) only pet peeve is slowing the game way down by never paying attention
2) fuck no I’m always giving it 100%
3) set blinds so that folks aren’t too uncomfortable
4) yes there are some clear losers in our game, I’m certainly ok with it, they must be also because they don’t seem to want to improve
5) only pet peeve is slowing the game way down by never paying attention
Alex Lundstrum
Two Pair
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