Cash Game A different kind of AA hand question (1 Viewer)

What would you do?

  • Fold, grab the racks and leave before seeing outcome

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fold, stick around to either kick yourself or pat yourself on the back

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Call if 1 caller, fold if 2 callers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Call 1 and 2 callers

    Votes: 31 100.0%

  • Total voters
    31

dkersey

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Everyone knows that you are a big favorite preflop with AA, but would you put it all in in this situation?


Cash game, $1/$2 blinds. You've been playing for 5-6 hours straight and built up your stack from your $200 buyin to around $800. The game is playing deep, lots of big stacks on the table, a couple bigger than yours. You are getting tired, and about to call it a night with a nice profit, then this happens...

You get AA in middle position, you raise, but the big stack at the table comes over the top, and puts it all in. You are a 82% favorite. Would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

What if there another was another caller ahead of your with a similar stack? You could triple up but now your odds of winning go down to 67%. Again, would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?
 
That's the type of spot you play for. If your uncomfortable putting your stack at risk with aces you shouldn't be playing those stakes.
 
Everyone knows that you are a big favorite preflop with AA, but would you put it all in in this situation?


Cash game, $1/$2 blinds. You've been playing for 5-6 hours straight and built up your stack from your $200 buyin to around $800. The game is playing deep, lots of big stacks on the table, a couple bigger than yours. You are getting tired, and about to call it a night with a nice profit, then this happens...

You get AA in middle position, you raise, but the big stack at the table comes over the top, and puts it all in. You are a 82% favorite. Would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

What if there another was another caller ahead of your with a similar stack? You could triple up but now your odds of winning go down to 67%. Again, would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

.....So what did you do and what was the result...? Cooler? :cautious:
 
Everyone knows that you are a big favorite preflop with AA, but would you put it all in in this situation?

Yes.

Oh, wait, you didn't describe the situation yet...

Cash game, $1/$2 blinds. You've been playing for 5-6 hours straight and built up your stack from your $200 buyin to around $800.

Yes.

No, wait, the situation...

You get AA in middle position, you raise, but the big stack at the table comes over the top, and puts it all in. You are a 82% favorite. Would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

Yes. In a heartbeat.

And, it's not hard work, it's fun. If it's hard work, you're doing something wrong.

Also also, you're 82% against a random hand. You're under 77% against 87s... but you're 92% against AKo. Which is more likely? Against most of the likely big-raise hands, you're quite a bit better than 82%.


What if there another was another caller ahead of your with a similar stack? You could triple up but now your odds of winning go down to 67%. Again, would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

Yes.

You keep talking about your hard work... that's in the past. It doesn't matter to this hand. In this hand, you've got $800 and aces. That's all that matters.

Also, you're 73% against two random hands... but I'd still do it at your proposed 67%. I'd do it at 58%. (That's where you are if facing 76s and JTs, in different suits, neither suit matching one of your aces. That may be close to the worst case.)

For that matter, I'd do it at 50%. It's still a huge edge when getting 3:1.

I'd do it in any cash game I play.

Also, I don't play in a cash game I can't afford... so though I've bought in for $200, it's a $1/$2 game, I probably came with $600 or more to play ($800 or $1000 is possible), and can afford to lose $800. It would suck, but it wouldn't be nearly as glorious as tripping up.

Now, if I were already playing way too high for my comfort, and the absolute most I'm willing to lose was the $600 I brought with me, and I was actually way ahead - say, my stack was $1500... then I might lay it down and call it a night. You see, that $1500 is mine, so if I'm unwilling to lose more than $600, the all-in against my aces makes me fold, and I gotta stop playing with $1500 I'm unwilling to lose. That bet reminds me I'm now playing too deep for the stakes I can afford, and I can no longer play poker... I am handicapping my game and reducing my skill level. I gotta get out.

When you're thinking about laying down aces pre-flop because of the bet size, you're not actually thinking about poker any more. You're thinking about the fact that you're gambling with more money than you should be... at which point you should be getting up from the table.

Outside of this, if I'm playing at stakes I can afford... I always call.

The only time it can be strategically wrong to call this hand is in a tournament, but we're talking cash game.

FWIW, in a cash game, no matter how many people call, it's right to be in with aces. If all nine opponents call, you're getting 31% against random hands, while having a chance of going up ten times (decupling?) In a tourney, if you were short stack, they might be right to all call to maximize the 69% chance of knocking you out, but I'd happily risk losing 7 out of 10 times in return for the chance to win 10:1 the other 3 times!
 
You gotta shove, you can't get to be more of a favorite. It may have taken time and effort to get to that $800 stack, but if you're afraid of losing it as a favorite to anything, maybe you shouldn't be playing poker with it.
 
“Move down in stakes” has been said often but it’s 1/2, I’m assuming at a casino. That’s as low as it gets.

Before you go back figure out how much you’d be uncomfortable putting in the pot with AA preflop. Whenever you hit that number in the future, leave.
 
you obviously say...

Ugh... Show your aces then fold them to show the table how tight you are... then walk away?!?!?!?


I mean, Is this a serious question? this story probably ends with he has aces for the split. or some under pair and a huge suckout.
 
.....So what did you do and what was the result...? Cooler? :cautious:

Called, Lost, Left.

“Move down in stakes” has been said often but it’s 1/2, I’m assuming at a casino. That’s as low as it gets.

Before you go back figure out how much you’d be uncomfortable putting in the pot with AA preflop. Whenever you hit that number in the future, leave.

Ronoh gets it. Maybe you would call 800. But what if it was 1k, 2k, 5k. You should have a number.

A very wealthy man once told me...Bulls can make money, Bears can make money, but pigs get slaughtered.
 
Called, Lost, Left.



Ronoh gets it. Maybe you would call 800. But what if it was 1k, 2k, 5k. You should have a number.

A very wealthy man once told me...Bulls can make money, Bears can make money, but pigs get slaughtered.
That sucks, but you absolutely made the right call, what did you get raised with? Totally agree on the number, there's a point when the number becomes significant to you outside of the poker room. That's what I was trying to say.
 
You gotta do it. It is a good decision that has a better then 50% chance of becoming a great story.
 
Ronoh gets it. Maybe you would call 800. But what if it was 1k, 2k, 5k. You should have a number.
Fair enough. So you don’t HAVE to call. But if you’re not gonna call, you do have to rack up your chips and leave. And probably play lower stakes next time.
 
You get AA in middle position, you raise, but the big stack at the table comes over the top, and puts it all in. You are a 82% favorite. Would you call putting all your winnings and hard work for the night at risk?

Call.

I couldn't live with myself if I folded in that situation, pre-flop. Going forward I'd always wonder what would have been.
 
Called, Lost, Left.



Ronoh gets it. Maybe you would call 800. But what if it was 1k, 2k, 5k. You should have a number.

A very wealthy man once told me...Bulls can make money, Bears can make money, but pigs get slaughtered.


lost to what?


wait forget that
 
Thinking about getting beaten by a hand like JJ+ is results-oriented thinking and that type of thinking has no logical place at a poker table.

The loss does suck, and I know that sting, but it’s still a fist-pump shove every time.
 
I once layed down Kings, and I've been 100% sure that my opponent, on whom I had a read from playing with him like 30 hrs over the past 3 days, had pocket rockets. I showed my kings, he was decent and showed his aces. This was the one and only time I will ever lay down Kings. With aces I'm a strong favorite against any hand. What to think about? Fate? Mathematically a no-brainer. You've done the right thing, had bad luck, that's part of the game.
 
If you fold AA preflop for any amount of money then you need to quit the game all together. Should not matter how much you are up or down.
 
Yes, we all do have an amount of money which is too much. For me that number is driven by my income tax exposure and the certainty the game is fair.

So let's say I could bet $100,000 on aces and win $300,000 two times in three and lose the $100,000 the other time and I assume the game is fair. I would owe ~30% taxes on the $300,000 but couldn't write off much of the $100,000 in losses because I don't have $100,000 in gambling winning to off-set. So the proposition isn't as good - after taxes the reward for the risk is "only" +$40,000, not the +$200,000 it would be pretax.

My pain threshold if I were certain the game was fair is something like $100,000 to $250,000. But certainty for fairness is hard to achieve. I don't ever play with more than $4,000 into a game. So any circumstances where huge money was in play, by definition things would be "strange".

Say somehow I get convinced to put $25,000 in play and lo . . . someone wants to bet all-in and I look down to see aces. My little voice is whispering, what are the odds this is on the level? I am not feeling good about this. If I regularly played in games where this sort of things happen, then it is a snap call. But with strangers in a curious game, I think even $25,000 is too much.

In a game with my buddies for $2,000 it is an easy fist pump all-in.

TLDR - the issue is the honesty of the game and income tax exposure more than the natural risk of aces getting cracked

DrStrange
 
“Move down in stakes” has been said often but it’s 1/2, I’m assuming at a casino. That’s as low as it gets.

Before you go back figure out how much you’d be uncomfortable putting in the pot with AA preflop. Whenever you hit that number in the future, leave.

I know I am in the "you have to call" camp, but this is the argument against that makes sense. In NL you can run well and get a significant percentage of your bankroll in front of you. It's worth thinking about.

But if you can't put it in with AA you shouldn't be in the game. I agree with the idea of if there's a number for that, quit there.
 

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