2/5/10 PLO play double suited Kings with me

Hornet

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If you think there is a good chance villain would call with lower flushes or a straight, I’d shove here. Given your description of villain, I think that is the right play.

If you check, I doubt villain would bluff missed diamonds, even assuming that’s what he had.
 

mipevi

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If the pot was HU villain would be more likely to bluff, I think just get it in and hope for a crying call.
 

colter ripton

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also, since I'm not an advanced plo player by any stretch of the imagination, I'd like to hear a little discussion on the pre flop action.

Did you consider raising, and if not, Why not? Is double suited kings with connectors not good enough for a raise?

Its a genuine question from someone who enjoys plo, but never really played it at a high level. (or much at all really)

Colter
 

Anthony Martino

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also, since I'm not an advanced plo player by any stretch of the imagination, I'd like to hear a little discussion on the pre flop action.

Did you consider raising, and if not, Why not? Is double suited kings with connectors not good enough for a raise?

Its a genuine question from someone who enjoys plo, but never really played it at a high level. (or much at all really)

Colter

The problem is that we are deep-stacked vs multiple opponents also deep-stacked that REALLY like to gamble

If we repop preflop we are in the SB so EVERY player has position on us in a bloated flop with plenty of chips left

I mean, if we KNEW what the flop was going to be, yeah I'd smash that repop button

But generally my approach is to try and keep pot sizes manageable and see flops multiway. Increases the chances someone makes a 2nd best hand and will pay off

Unless I can get it in preflop with an edge or create such a low SPR that my flop decision is automatic, I really don't like bloating the pot OOP
 

colter ripton

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The problem is that we are deep-stacked vs multiple opponents also deep-stacked that REALLY like to gamble

If we repop preflop we are in the SB so EVERY player has position on us in a bloated flop with plenty of chips left

I mean, if we KNEW what the flop was going to be, yeah I'd smash that repop button

But generally my approach is to try and keep pot sizes manageable and see flops multiway. Increases the chances someone makes a 2nd best hand and will pay off

Unless I can get it in preflop with an edge or create such a low SPR that my flop decision is automatic, I really don't like bloating the pot OOP

Makes complete sense to me. I play holdem at a high level. That is the exact thing I would do deep stacked, against multiple opponents out of position with a marginal hand.

With a premium hand however, I would usually pound it preflop, oop, against that many opponents.

I guess my question would be this. Is this not considered a premium hand in omaha, or is it just because you don't think you will be able to sufficiently thin the field to make it profitable to raise?
 

Anthony Martino

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Makes complete sense to me. I play holdem at a high level. That is the exact thing I would do deep stacked, against multiple opponents out of position with a marginal hand.

With a premium hand however, I would usually pound it preflop, oop, against that many opponents.

I guess my question would be this. Is this not considered a premium hand in omaha, or is it just because you don't think you will be able to sufficiently thin the field to make it profitable to raise?

The problem is that in PLO hand strengths preflop run closer together generally than in Hold Em. So you really want to see a flop to determine if you're going to continue with a hand.

Now there are plenty of pros out there who would raise this hand and try to thin the field. My approach is to rarely raise AT ALL. I'm a puller. I want multi-way pots with most of the hands I play. This is because:

1. Fish want to play hands, it makes them happy. So I try to keep pots small preflop and let them in, the fish should want to stick around

2. Multi-way pots in PLO are much harder to bluff at. So it makes it more difficult for stronger or more aggressive opponents to push me off my equity/draws if they're facing a huge field of opponents

3. The more players in the pot, the greater likelihood that someone will make a 2nd best hand and pay me off when I hit my holding

The majority of my sessions, one or two key hands are going to make or break you. So I'm looking for the knockout blows, the big hits for entire stacks, rather than the small jabs the more aggressive players make where they take down smaller pots with aggression, but usually give it all back and then some in the bigger pots.

As far as my KK65 double suited hand. It's good, but not amazing. King-high flushes can cause you a lot of trouble in this game since so many players are in there with suited Aces and PLO is fairly nutty. In addition, while the 56 are coordinated with one another, aside from their suits they don't work with my Kings. I'd much rather go to war with KKJT where all four cards work in conjunction.

I will even just call with AAxx (I did that this past session with AATJ one suit) because I was OOP and since I rarely raise I don't want to telegraph my hand. When I hit it's much harder for them to put me on the Aces because I didn't raise, and a lot of players just apply their own style of play to everyone they are up against (i.e. so and so did x, and if I did x it would mean y, so therefore they cannot have z)
 

colter ripton

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The problem is that in PLO hand strengths preflop run closer together generally than in Hold Em. So you really want to see a flop to determine if you're going to continue with a hand.

Now there are plenty of pros out there who would raise this hand and try to thin the field. My approach is to rarely raise AT ALL. I'm a puller. I want multi-way pots with most of the hands I play. This is because:

1. Fish want to play hands, it makes them happy. So I try to keep pots small preflop and let them in, the fish should want to stick around

2. Multi-way pots in PLO are much harder to bluff at. So it makes it more difficult for stronger or more aggressive opponents to push me off my equity/draws if they're facing a huge field of opponents

3. The more players in the pot, the greater likelihood that someone will make a 2nd best hand and pay me off when I hit my holding

The majority of my sessions, one or two key hands are going to make or break you. So I'm looking for the knockout blows, the big hits for entire stacks, rather than the small jabs the more aggressive players make where they take down smaller pots with aggression, but usually give it all back and then some in the bigger pots.

As far as my KK65 double suited hand. It's good, but not amazing. King-high flushes can cause you a lot of trouble in this game since so many players are in there with suited Aces and PLO is fairly nutty. In addition, while the 56 are coordinated with one another, aside from their suits they don't work with my Kings. I'd much rather go to war with KKJT where all four cards work in conjunction.

I will even just call with AAxx (I did that this past session with AATJ one suit) because I was OOP and since I rarely raise I don't want to telegraph my hand. When I hit it's much harder for them to put me on the Aces because I didn't raise, and a lot of players just apply their own style of play to everyone they are up against (i.e. so and so did x, and if I did x it would mean y, so therefore they cannot have z)

Thanks for the breakdown man. appreciated
 

JMC9389

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The problem is that in PLO hand strengths preflop run closer together generally than in Hold Em. So you really want to see a flop to determine if you're going to continue with a hand.

Now there are plenty of pros out there who would raise this hand and try to thin the field. My approach is to rarely raise AT ALL. I'm a puller. I want multi-way pots with most of the hands I play. This is because:

1. Fish want to play hands, it makes them happy. So I try to keep pots small preflop and let them in, the fish should want to stick around

2. Multi-way pots in PLO are much harder to bluff at. So it makes it more difficult for stronger or more aggressive opponents to push me off my equity/draws if they're facing a huge field of opponents

3. The more players in the pot, the greater likelihood that someone will make a 2nd best hand and pay me off when I hit my holding

The majority of my sessions, one or two key hands are going to make or break you. So I'm looking for the knockout blows, the big hits for entire stacks, rather than the small jabs the more aggressive players make where they take down smaller pots with aggression, but usually give it all back and then some in the bigger pots.

As far as my KK65 double suited hand. It's good, but not amazing. King-high flushes can cause you a lot of trouble in this game since so many players are in there with suited Aces and PLO is fairly nutty. In addition, while the 56 are coordinated with one another, aside from their suits they don't work with my Kings. I'd much rather go to war with KKJT where all four cards work in conjunction.

I will even just call with AAxx (I did that this past session with AATJ one suit) because I was OOP and since I rarely raise I don't want to telegraph my hand. When I hit it's much harder for them to put me on the Aces because I didn't raise, and a lot of players just apply their own style of play to everyone they are up against (i.e. so and so did x, and if I did x it would mean y, so therefore they cannot have z)
That tends to be me when I play PLO. I tend to hit second nuts and get cleaned out by someone that hits first nuts.
 

Anthony Martino

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Hero pots again, which was somewhere in the 1300-1400 range. If this fucker wants to chase a diamond draw, he's paying the max for it!

Villain CALLS Heros pot bet, leaving himself roughly 1k behind and now there is a side pot larger than the main pot

River :2h: Hero is first to act....?

Hero pots all-in, villain folds, Heros 2nd nuts good against all-in player

In retrospect I should check the river and give villain an opportunity to bluff off his last 1k into the approx 3k side pot I think
 

Rhodeman77

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I definitely bet the river. Villain is getting a very good price to call with a wide range of hands as a crying call that he would be more than happy to take his showdown value with.
 

Anthony Martino

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I definitely bet the river. Villain is getting a very good price to call with a wide range of hands as a crying call that he would be more than happy to take his showdown value with.

The problem is...what showdown value? I flopped top set and the straight draw

His most likely hand is the diamond draw that whiffed. I block too many of the value hands given my cards and the board texture

If I check he might think he can push me off a set since the straight and a flush came in
 

Hornet

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I definitely bet the river. Villain is getting a very good price to call with a wide range of hands as a crying call that he would be more than happy to take his showdown value with.
I agree. The only hand he’s likely to bluff with is missed diamonds and it’s a hard bluff to pull off given that you potted the flop and turn.
 
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