2/5/10 PLO play double suited Kings with me

Anthony Martino

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hero moved to this table after previous table broke

Within the past dealer Hero won a big hand where he limp repotted :ad::ac::jc::th: and got it in on a :qd::9d::3h: flop three ways. Ran twice, hero made sets on BOTH boards, plus nut straight on one of them to stack up

This hand Hero is SB with :kh::ks::5h::6s:

Hero has around 3500-3700 or so. BB is the rock. Bunch of callers, Button raises to 70.

Game has a good collection of stations and over aggressive fish, with stack sizes in the high 1k's to mid 2k's

Button is over-aggressive and was in the hand where Hero won with the AAJT

Hero calls, bunch of other callers, $350 in the pot as we go 7-handed to the flop

:kd::4d::3h:

Hero first to act, Hero....?
 

Perthmike

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I'm not good at plo, but the way you've characterised the villain, I'd be wanting to check raise and yell pot motherfucker, rather than pot myself.

But I'm also aware that @Hornet and @Rhodeman77 will probably tell me off and say I should always bet my made hands. So I'm going to say pot and hope for a couple of calls, so that you can pump a tonne more in on any non diamond turn

So I'm interested to hear the consensus.
 

mipevi

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I guess it depends a bit on how many of the callers pre are in the over-aggro camp and not just stations. If the BTN is pretty much the only over-aggro, just lead pot. If there are other over-aggros, especially with stations to act after them, then go for the check/raise.
 

Rhodeman77

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I’m betting pot here. Hero has straight draw to go with his top set. There are wraps and FD that will give action


I hate counting on someone else to bet here, plus I would also bet here with the nut flush + straight draw so it balances your betting range.
 
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Hornet

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I most likely check, but a lot depends on the aggression of the table. How many times are flops checked through in this situation. If rarely, I’ll check. But I don’t want to give a free card if people tend to be more passive with draws or weak made hands.
 

Perthmike

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Legend5555

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We have the nuts, and the nut straight draw. So the only thing we are worried about are diamonds. I'd take whatever line with these clowns allows us to shovel as much money into the pot now as possible. So if one of them will bet, then check/pot. Otherwise just pot and hope for a repot. If we have to go to the turn with significant money behind, then just pray it isn't a diamond.

In the absolute worst scenarios we are up against something like :ad::ah::6h::5d: (we are 51% to scoop), or :ah::ad::2h::7d: (we are 60% to win).
 

Rhodeman77

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3456 is a gutshot now people?

oops, I just woke up. Fixed. Still betting pot. Hero straight draw is still blockers to a wrap draw. Nothing sucks more than pairing the 5 or 6 and a wrap now has the straight. So I still look at OESD as blockers for wraps.
 

JustinInMN

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Villian dependent here, I think I would check and plan to raise pot.

Villian is aggressive by description and hero is going to have other hands where he would like to check call. Putting in check raises with hands like this prevents villian from assuming hero's checks are safe.
 

Rhodeman77

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So for those saying check raise, what hands (if any) are you leading here with or is only because you expect a bet from Villain?

what about getting tricky with a small bet to induce a bluff? Say bet $100 to make it look like a flush or straight draw trying to set his own price to draw? An aggressive player will often look at this small bet as weak and raise Hero.
 

Anthony Martino

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hero moved to this table after previous table broke

Within the past dealer Hero won a big hand where he limp repotted :ad::ac::jc::th: and got it in on a :qd::9d::3h: flop three ways. Ran twice, hero made sets on BOTH boards, plus nut straight on one of them to stack up

This hand Hero is SB with :kh::ks::5h::6s:

Hero has around 3500-3700 or so. BB is the rock. Bunch of callers, Button raises to 70.

Game has a good collection of stations and over aggressive fish, with stack sizes in the high 1k's to mid 2k's

Button is over-aggressive and was in the hand where Hero won with the AAJT

Hero calls, bunch of other callers, $350 in the pot as we go 7-handed to the flop

:kd::4d::3h:

Hero first to act, Hero....?

Hero opts to bet right out. Yes, there are merits for checkraises too, but Villain who raised is aggressive in juicing pots preflop, but Hero would hate to have this get checked around and give someone with a shitty flush draw a free card

UTG calls and has a starting stack around 2700, UTG +1 is all-in for less. UTG is a sticky/station type who is also willing to make bluffs

Turn :qh:

Action on Hero?
 

Rhodeman77

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That is a great card for Hero. He still has the nuts and picked up the back door heart draw. Which is useful if someone has a wrap it kills a few more of their outs.

I’m betting 3/4 pot. I want to keep the diamond draw in the hand, but I don’t want to give him the right price to call.
 

JMC9389

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So for those saying check raise, what hands (if any) are you leading here with or is only because you expect a bet from Villain?

what about getting tricky with a small bet to induce a bluff? Say bet $100 to make it look like a flush or straight draw trying to set his own price to draw? An aggressive player will often look at this small bet as weak and raise Hero.
This is what I would do. If hero pots or check raises here and a diamond comes up, they're up the creek.
 

JustinInMN

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those saying check raise, what hands (if any) are you leading here with or is only because you expect a bet from Villain?

Honestly, OOP to this particular villian, I may check 100% of hands. If villian starts to show willingness to forgo c-bets, I might have to reform the strategy. I think I just like a checking strategy out of position in general, particularly against aggressive villians. So yes it is about some deception here, but also exploiting a predicable villian.
 

JustinInMN

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Well after taking initiative on the flop and the remaining villian being a station, I think hero just has to fire again. If hero checks and villian is a bluffer we probably will have to call again anyway, but villian may also take a free pull with big draws. Bet seems clear to make sure we collect value where we can.
 

Frogzilla

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So for those saying check raise, what hands (if any) are you leading here with or is only because you expect a bet from Villain?

what about getting tricky with a small bet to induce a bluff? Say bet $100 to make it look like a flush or straight draw trying to set his own price to draw? An aggressive player will often look at this small bet as weak and raise Hero.
I am not leading any hands
 

redwine

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oop plo at this stack depth is just so tough. you flop the nuts, turn a great card, and theres a good chance you're a sitting duck on the river. it's not as bad here because we picked up the bdfd, but still.

i don't think preflop was a part of this PAHWM but I think this is a mandatory 3b preflop, so that you know you can GII by the turn and you will always have equity at that point.
 

Anthony Martino

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Hero opts to bet right out. Yes, there are merits for checkraises too, but Villain who raised is aggressive in juicing pots preflop, but Hero would hate to have this get checked around and give someone with a shitty flush draw a free card

UTG calls and has a starting stack around 2700, UTG +1 is all-in for less. UTG is a sticky/station type who is also willing to make bluffs

Turn :qh:

Action on Hero?

Hero pots again, which was somewhere in the 1300-1400 range. If this fucker wants to chase a diamond draw, he's paying the max for it!

Villain CALLS Heros pot bet, leaving himself roughly 1k behind and now there is a side pot larger than the main pot

River :2h: Hero is first to act....?
 

JustinInMN

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River :2h: Hero is first to act....?

Clear check and call spot. Villian is never folding the nuts, and may bluff/shove much wider after a check. The only risk to the check I see is if hero has a lesser flush and would be smart enough to check it behind.

Otherwise, against a bluffy villian, I think I prefer throwing the rope, especially if he will turn missed diamonds into a bluff.

If you run into the nuts, nothing to be done either way. If the villain is bluffy you need a soul read to fold the second nuts to the possible nuts that only came in backdoor.
 
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