10K Tourney set: How do I use thee? Let me count the ways. (2 Viewers)

[yeahfkyeah]

I just picked up a T25 base T10k set, and I'm a bit unsure how to use it...
It looks to have:

120x T25
120x T100
60x T500
90x T1000
10x T10k



My friends have been playing games a long time with an old dice chips set. We have typically played in a T5 format with 5, 10, 25 100, and 500 chips. Now I'm trying to convince everyone to move to a T25 format, and it seems like people are unsure about things (myself included). We tried with 10k stacks, but it was WAY too slow for my group. I've tried doing some research on the different tournament structures, but it seems like most people are talking about 10K starting stacks (400bb). Is this not super deep stacked? I don't fully understand if I should be affecting the speed of a tourney by smaller starting stacks or just faster blind raises.

Ideally, we would like a tourney style sit-and-go to last 2-3 hours (or less potentially), and then we will play a cash game until people tap out. I'm trying to understand the multiple ways I could use a set like this.

Can anyone help me understand what my limitations will be with this set? What type of starting stacks should I be doing for a quick tourney, normal, deep stack, etc. Is a faster game typically achieved by the blind raise structure and not the starting stack size?

I'm having a hard time doing all this math...Will this set be good for the following setups?
10 people deep stack with no rebuys?
10 people regular stacks with x rebuys?
20 people regular stacks with no rebuys?
20 people faster game?

Sorry for the rambling, but I have too many variables in my equations, and I don't know how to solve this...

 

[allforcharity]

I think you'll see lots of suggestions in the Tournament thread with full breakdowns and structures.

The short form is to use 12/12/5/6 starting stacks, 200BB. If you only want a 2-3 hour game you can pare all the way back to T5K if you want (100BB) by removing some of the 1k chips.

 

[Highli99]

All tournaments tyoically end when the BB is 5% of total chips in play.

Use T10k stacks made up of 12/12/5/6

Start blinds at 25/50 and time levels to end whenever you want using the 5% rules. A lot of people prefer gradual increases over big increases and I'm in that camp, but to each their own

 

[harrysallout]

Check the new member thread under chip breakdown tournament version

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/new-members-start-here.85303/

Direct link
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...p-lots-of-little-questions.67298/post-1350844

 

[yeahfkyeah]

Check the new member thread under chip breakdown tournament version

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/new-members-start-here.85303/

Direct link
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...p-lots-of-little-questions.67298/post-1350844

Thank you for linking me this info. I tried searching but there is such a glut of info I've had a hard time really understanding the nuances of the blind timer vs stack size.

The 5% rule makes a ton of sense. I should be able to take any given tournament structure and calculate the blind timer based on the overall end time I would like. What I DON'T fully understand is the differences between 2.5k, 5k, 10k, 20k, etc. starting stacks, given the same overall tournament time.

I was always under the impression that "deep stacks" meant a longer game, but it's apparent from this calculous that would only be true given the same blind timer. What's the difference between adjusting a game time with the starting stacks vs the blind timer? Is it simply a matter of preference for how long of levels people are comfortable with, i.e. 9 min blinds at 10k stacks vs 13 min blinds at 2.5k stacks to achieve a similar overall time?
(actual times were estimated here so please don't flame me for bad math)

 

[yeahfkyeah]

All tournaments tyoically end when the BB is 5% of total chips in play.

Use T10k stacks made up of 12/12/5/6

Start blinds at 25/50 and time levels to end whenever you want using the 5% rules. A lot of people prefer gradual increases over big increases and I'm in that camp, but to each their own

I find that my group gets annoyed if blinds raise before a full round about the table...They also have a habbit of playing slowly, so I guess less frequent blind raises are better for them.

 

[Highli99]

Starting stacks are irrelevant by themselves. It's all about stacks relative to blinds.

T10k tournaments usually start with 25/50 blinds, aka 200 bbs

T2k tournaments usually start with 5/10 blinds, aka 200 bbs

Notice they are the same starting stacks in big blinds?

Deep stack is just a reference to how many bbs you start with. So, a T4k tournament with starting blinds of 5/10 is deep while a T100k with starting blinds of 500/1k is actually shallow.

 

[BGinGA]

If looking for a 2-3 hour event using a T25-base set, you will likely want to retain blind level lengths of 15-20 minutes and cut the starting stack size to 75-100 big blinds.

For example, a 12/12/6/3 T7500 starting stack with 50/100 opening blinds is 75BB. 10 players means 75k in total chips, so the the event will likely end somewhere between the 1500/3000 and 2000/4000 blind levels.

If using the blind structure below with 15-minute levels, that means the event typically ends somewhere in the 2:45 to 3:00 range. Add an extra hour (12 levels x 5 minutes) if using 20-minute blind levels. I do not recommend blind levels shorter than 15 minutes

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 100/200
L4 150/300
remove T25 chips
L5 200/400
L6 300/600
L7 400/800
L8 600/1200
L9 800/1600
L10 1100/2200
remove T100 chips
L11 1500/3000
L12 2000/4000

The above T7500 stack event with 15-minute levels and 50/100 opening blinds (75BB) is about as quick an event one can run without it feeling like a super-rushed turbo. For a faster event, ramp up the blind increase amounts:

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 125/250
remove T25 chips
L4 200/400
L5 300/600
L6 500/1000
L7 800/1600
L8 1200/2400
remove T100 chips
L9 2000/4000

With longer 20-minute blind levels, it runs the same 2:45-3:00 as the previous structure, but with 15-minute levels, the overall time is reduced to about 2:00 to 2:15 plus breaks.

 

[yeahfkyeah]

If looking for a 2-3 hour event using a T25-base set, you will likely want to retain blind level lengths of 15-20 minutes and cut the starting stack size to 75-100 big blinds.

For example, a 12/12/6/3 T7500 starting stack with 50/100 opening blinds is 75BB. 10 players means 75k in total chips, so the the event will likely end somewhere between the 1500/3000 and 2000/4000 blind levels.

If using the blind structure below with 15-minute levels, that means the event typically ends somewhere in the 2:45 to 3:00 range. Add an extra hour (12 levels x 5 minutes) if using 20-minute blind levels. I do not recommend blind levels shorter than 15 minutes

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 100/200
L4 150/300
remove T25 chips
L5 200/400
L6 300/600
L7 400/800
L8 600/1200
L9 800/1600
L10 1100/2200
remove T100 chips
L11 1500/3000
L12 2000/4000

The above T7500 stack event with 15-minute levels and 50/100 opening blinds (75BB) is about as quick an event one can run without it feeling like a super-rushed turbo. For a faster event, ramp up the blind increase amounts:

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 125/250
remove T25 chips
L4 200/400
L5 300/600
L6 500/1000
L7 800/1600
L8 1200/2400
remove T100 chips
L9 2000/4000

With longer 20-minute blind levels, it runs the same 2:45-3:00 as the previous structure, but with 15-minute levels, the overall time is reduced to about 2:00 to 2:15 plus breaks.

Thank you for the detailed reply! This is very helpful. I find it intriguing that you thought to cut the starting stack size AND remove a blind level to achieve this faster model. I figured you would always keep the base at 25/50 but reduce the stacks to match. I guess cutting blind levels off the front end is a great way to decidedly cut off an extra 15-20 min and start out more heavily invested at the same time.


Does this blind structuring give me the ability to achieve a similar tournament for 10 people with 10k stacks as with 20 people with 5k stacks?
For example, to match your above tournament structure could I have 20 people with 5k stacks each and simply start at 25/50?

 

[BGinGA]

Does this blind structuring give me the ability to achieve a similar tournament for 10 people with 10k stacks as with 20 people with 5k stacks?
For example, to match your above tournament structure could I have 20 people with 5k stacks each and simply start at 25/50?

Pretty much. Both situations put 100k total chips in play, meaning both will typically end by the 2500/5000 blind level (and how one gets to that point is quite variable).

But the event will be/seem deeper and less rushed for the 10-player version than the 20-player version (assuming identical blind structures), since the 10k stacks contain twice as many starting big blinds as do the 5k stacks..... but then cutting the starting blinds in half for the 5k stack event essentially doubles the number of starting blinds (and equal to that of the 10k event) -- making them seem similar in relative size and play.

 

[philhut]

This is a great single table set, unfortunately you should have at least 160x25 & 100value chips in this format for more than one table to be very playable for the making of change.

 

[yeahfkyeah]

This is a great single table set, unfortunately you should have at least 160x25 & 100value chips in this format for more than one table to be very playable for the making of change.

That makes sense. It seems like I have enough overall chip value to pull off a larger game, in a pinch, but I could see making change becoming a constant annoyance.

 

[Machine]

If looking for a 2-3 hour event using a T25-base set, you will likely want to retain blind level lengths of 15-20 minutes and cut the starting stack size to 75-100 big blinds.

When should one use a T5 structure, or a T100, what are the pros and cons of each?

 

[yeahfkyeah]

When should one use a T5 structure, or a T100, what are the pros and cons of each?

This is a whole separate variable which I've never really explored much personally. I've had the advantage here of this always being dictated by my chip set. I used to have chips of denoms 5, 10, 25, 100, 500 and so my friends and I have played a T5 base as long as I can recall. Now that I've gotten a set of T25 chips, I'm going to explore that style of tournament. I've only played T25 a handful of times, but I much prefer it to the T5 structure. I feel like there are less strange sized bets and it's much easier to judge how much is in a pot or in someone's stack (I'd rather see bets in multiples of 25 than multiples of 5)

I would have likely gone with a T100 set, except the set I purchased was a fantastic deal I couldn't pass up (Thanks @TheChipRoom !)

 

[philhut]

How does one use the 10k chips in this set without any 5ks? curious about your ideas on that? as I am confused myself.

 

[yeahfkyeah]

How does one use the 10k chips in this set without any 5ks? curious about your ideas on that? as I am confused myself.

Honestly, I don't see us really using them except to color up. I imagine whoever gets one would rather horde it and bet 10x 1k chips anyway, unless they find themselves needing to make change.

 

[philhut]

If looking for a 2-3 hour event using a T25-base set, you will likely want to retain blind level lengths of 15-20 minutes and cut the starting stack size to 75-100 big blinds.

For example, a 12/12/6/3 T7500 starting stack with 50/100 opening blinds is 75BB. 10 players means 75k in total chips, so the the event will likely end somewhere between the 1500/3000 and 2000/4000 blind levels.

If using the blind structure below with 15-minute levels, that means the event typically ends somewhere in the 2:45 to 3:00 range. Add an extra hour (12 levels x 5 minutes) if using 20-minute blind levels. I do not recommend blind levels shorter than 15 minutes

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 100/200
L4 150/300
remove T25 chips
L5 200/400
L6 300/600
L7 400/800
L8 600/1200
L9 800/1600
L10 1100/2200
remove T100 chips
L11 1500/3000
L12 2000/4000

The above T7500 stack event with 15-minute levels and 50/100 opening blinds (75BB) is about as quick an event one can run without it feeling like a super-rushed turbo. For a faster event, ramp up the blind increase amounts:

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 125/250
remove T25 chips
L4 200/400
L5 300/600
L6 500/1000
L7 800/1600
L8 1200/2400
remove T100 chips
L9 2000/4000

With longer 20-minute blind levels, it runs the same 2:45-3:00 as the previous structure, but with 15-minute levels, the overall time is reduced to about 2:00 to 2:15 plus breaks.

I like to run this criteria a 5k starting stack 12/12/5/1 unlimited rebuys until T25s coloured up when 1x5k addon is allowed. I like 20min blinds. If the game is 1 table it ends around 2-4k blinds, if 4 tables 4-8k or even 5-10k were typical ending blinds for heads up.