Tourney T5 vs T25 base what did I do? (1 Viewer)

[Grimalkin]

Hey all, let me prefice this with the fact I’ve been using my old 500pc poker set for probably the better part of 20 years or so. Did a bunch of research on what denominations I should go with 20 years ago, decided on a T5 base with a T1500 starting stack. Always with 5/25/100/500 chips in 20/16/5/1 quantities (I like generous chips on the table)

Well I thought I had researched all I needed to as I’ve been playing the same game setup for 20 years, and went ahead and bought a bunch of royals, which is a major upgrade for me and my home games.

Bought 775 chips to accommodate 15 players at my normal starting stacks (with room for rebuys using T500 and T1000 chips if I need to):
300 red T5
250 green T25
150 black T100
50 (relabeled) blue T500
25 yellow T1000 (just cause I wanted them).

Well now after the fact as I usually do I’ve been back into the research and found this forum which has a ton of great knowledge. Not only have I been rethinking my starting stack (doing a T2000 tourney with 15/13/11/1), but now thinking I made a mistake and should have gone with a T25 base with T10000 tourney built it from there as apparently the blinds flow better with T25?

Am I totally just over reacting to my over researching, is T25 THAT much better than a T5 base? How much are royals worth used typically if I decide to unload my 300 red (oiled) $5 chips? I have a good start on my chip purchase to convert my chips to a T25 base but I’ve been running T5 base so long I feel like I’ll be real uncomfortable with a T25 base blinds…plus I’d have to unload brand new 300 oiled $5 chips at a loss.

 

[Huskerchipper]

Imo...you are overreacting. I have also ran a T5 based tourney for 25 years and don't plan on changing. I also have other sets that are T1 based tournament sets and T25 based tournament sets. It's more important how you have your blind levels set appropriately for consistent raises and the time between your blind levels raising so your ending your tournament when you need to. This discussion can get dissected and beaten to death. There is nothing wrong with your setup. Yes there are different approaches for different reasons but changing to T25 is not going to be a monumental change. I have dissected this to death. BG will likely be in soon to give you great advice. He can probably explain the small advantages of one tournament set over another better but I wouldn't sell anything. If it really bothers u buy moar chips!! LMAO

 

[Grimalkin]

I appreciate your reply, I’ve already priced out adding more chips to be able to run a T25
With T10000 to T20000 stack, my extreme OCD is getting the better of me, so I may just end up having way more chips than I’ll ever need!

I have a monthly game in a couple weeks with my new chips, so I’ll run it with some new chip counts (15/13/11/1 T2000), and see how the guys like it, I’m also tweaking my blinds a bit after browsing the forum here.

 

[BGinGA]

Obvious answer is obv: buy the extra chips you need to run T25-base events, and keep the T5s so that you can also run those events when desired.

But I suspect that after seeing first-hand the advantages of using T25-base, you won't be going back to using T5s.

(And eventually you'll probably add even more chips, so that you can run both T100-base and T500-base tournaments.)

 

[TexRex]

I agree with BG. Buy the chips for a T25. I've used a T25 as the base in almost all my tournaments, and T100 for a few. I'd consider buying for 2 full tables, and I'd buy for much larger chip stacks. At first I used to do T25 with T10,000 starting because the WSOP used that. Then I played in a game where they did T15,000 starting. I liked the way it played much better. I went from T15,000 to T25K to T40K. I got way better at developing blind structures that get the tournaments to last the amount of time I wanted.

Funny thing about players. They like more in starting value. When I went from T25K (500 BB) to T40K (400 BB), players LOVED the extra chips. Of course, with the blind structure, they actually had less in chips. You wouldn't believe how many comments I got about how much they liked the extra 15K in chips. A small percentage of players realized they had relatively less in chips.

I also suggest getting at least a few of the chip valued one level larger than you think you will need. You might not use them much, but eventually you will and be glad you have them.

 

[Grimalkin]

I do agree with what you all have said, ordered the extra chips needed last night to run the T25 base. For now I’ll be going with 25/100/500/1000 in 16/11/9/4 for a T10000. room to add $5000 chips on the end to make it T15000 or T20000 if needed.

after reviewing the blinds schedule of some players on here I can see the flow will probably be better. For now I’m getting enough for 15 guys plus colour ups and 7 rebuys. but my goal is enough for 20 in the future. (Never had more than 9 show up for a game).

Anyone ever had issues just using 5K chips for rebuys and they can get change on the table?

 

[TexRex]

I see no issues with using 5K chips for rebuys. There should be plenty of chips available for them to get change. PM me with your email address and I'll send you a spreadsheet I use to help develop blind schedules. BG has good info on that as well.

 

[Grimalkin]

Okay well after doing some math I can add a few more barrels to make my chips accommodate 20 players with looser stacks (12/12/7/6) and 30 players with tighter stacks (8/8/6/6).

Using mainly the 5K chip for colour ups, and rebuy. Will have some extra 500 and 1K chips at 20 players but the 5K will do the rebuy and colour up work I am hoping.

Falling down the rabbit hole real quick here. Hoping I don’t all the sudden decide to buy more to accommodate T100 base!

 

[Grimalkin]

Had a typo there, can do 30 players at 8/8/4/2/1 T10000 but that is a small stack to start with, if I start getting that many players I’d likely buy more chips.

 

[TexRex]

The 12/12 for T25 and T100 works very well. It's plenty of chips on the table. Though I've played and my sets are equipped for T100, I rarely use it. Maybe 10% of the time, if that. T25 starting is very flexible, and I've even had T25 with T150,000 (for a 6 hour tournament with aggressive blind stacks). Players love the large stacks. 12/12 works with anything from T6,000 and up.

When I first started, I went 12/7 because that was what the WSOP was doing. But I found 12/12 works quite well, and is much better than 12/7 or 8/8. Play a few T25s before going to T100.

 

[Grimalkin]

Thanks Tex, I’m likely to stop while I’m ahead and play the T25 base for awhile before moving to anything else. It will be new for my regulars and myself, I’m thinking we will like the change and will stick with it for awhile. Again I appreciate all the input from everyone. I’d be lying if I wasn’t excited to try the new base with T25 T10000 vs the T5 T1500 I’ve been doing for decades. Change is good!

 

[BGinGA]

For T25-base, 12/12/5/6 works better for T10k single-table stacks (although 8/8/4/7 stacks can work for multiple tables).

You will never need more than 4-5x T500 chips per player (in a 100-500-1000 progression set) because only ONE T500 chip will ever be needed to construct ANY bet.

But you will need many more T1000 chips (7-to-10+ per player) once it becomes the workhorse chip in play, since as many as FOUR chips may be required to construct a bet.

For this reason, coloring-up T25 and T100 chips with T1000s is often desired, and sometimes almost required. Using all T5000 chips for re-buys and color-ups often results in a shortage of the needed T1000s being in play.

 

[Grimalkin]

Can’t the T500 chips pick up the slack of some T1000 chips if needed? I ended up going with:

250 $25
250 $100
150 $500
150 $1000
75 $5000

If I have some 5k chips in play, if needed players that hold them might need to give change to others to spread the chips around if needed. I plan to fill the table with all T500 and T1000 chips until I run out from colour ups and rebuys then I’ll be forced to use the 5k

 

[Budha]

my extreme OCD is getting the better of me, so I may just end up having way more chips than I’ll ever need!

 

[BGinGA]

Can’t the T500 chips pick up the slack of some T1000 chips if needed?

Yes, to a degree. But a larger number of T500 chips (along with fewer T1000s and no T5000s) will not be very efficient in tems of game play.

You don't need very many T500 to create bets, but you need lots of T1000 in play (once it becomes the workhorse chip)... and you also need a sufficient number of T5000 chips in play (so that large bets >5000 aren't constructed solely by using all T1000s and T500s).

 

[allforcharity]

It does also come down to what's available to buy (and cost). If you're ordering custom then it matters less, because each chip costs roughly the same.

Case in point: for my MTT CDI98 set, there are way more $500 chips out there than $1k. The $5k don't exist so I had to make my own using an appropriate chip, which adds additional time and expense. Not everybody has boatloads of either.

 

[JustinInMN]

Am I totally just over reacting to my over researching, is T25 THAT much better than a T5 base? How much are royals worth used typically if I decide to unload my 300 red (oiled) $5 chips? I have a good start on my chip purchase to convert my chips to a T25 base but I’ve been running T5 base so long I feel like I’ll be real uncomfortable with a T25 base blinds…plus I’d have to unload brand new 300 oiled $5 chips at a loss.

I don't know if it's THAT much better, but as others have said you can probably just add what you need to experiment with T25.

Had a typo there, can do 30 players at 8/8/4/2/1 T10000 but that is a small stack to start with, if I start getting that many players I’d likely buy more chips.

You definitely do not want to do this. You really need to be at 8/8/4/7. If you are only putting 2*T1000 in starting stacks, there will not be enough T1000s on the table to make change when players need to break T5000 chips.

If you put 7*T1000 in each starting stack and only use T5000 for rebuys/color ups, then there will be sufficient T1000 chips on the table for change making.

In other words, buy the yellows you need to get to 240 if you are planning to support 30 players. The neat thing about building that way is that you can also have 12/12/5/6 stacks when it's only 20 players.

 

[Grimalkin]

I agree my chips are not sufficient for 30 players. My games are currently only 10 but I’m trying to grow it, I can do 20 players comfortably with the chips I bought, so once I reach those higher amt of players I’ll have to buy more chips, just another excuse to get new stuff

 

[JustinInMN]

I agree my chips are not sufficient for 30 players. My games are currently only 10 but I’m trying to grow it, I can do 20 players comfortably with the chips I bought, so once I reach those higher amt of players I’ll have to buy more chips, just another excuse to get new stuff

That's the spirit!

 

[Grimalkin]

Well the sickness has completely taken over my soul.

I am now designing a custom 44mm A mold set... WTH. Its like I can't stop myself from buying more chips, not just that, but I am craving the expensive variety. please tell me this stops at some point? I am also pricing in sending the chips to Gear to murder, so that I can use a 1" inlay instead of the 7/8" the 44mm A mold comes with.

in any case, I see the massive benefit of a T100 base now that I am designing my own expensive set. I can save money NOT getting any T25 chips, and instead put that money to better use on better looking edge spot designs. Starting with 100-100, 100-200, 200-300, 200-400 blinds, it is basically a T25 base starting at 50-100.

I am many many many months away from even ordering (and saving up), as I want to sit on the designs for some time, but just wanted to thank this forum for completely ruining me, and my satisfaction in the chips that I already have.

 

[Huskerchipper]

There will most likely be a VERY long wait for the 44mm CPC A-molds. I discussed that possibility with Dave a few months back and he told me it would be roughly 18 months. Don't take my words as fact but I would contact him yourself and ask. Just want to give you a heads up. I am also confused on sending them to Gear. You are looking at buying custom CPC to send them to be murdered for an extra 1/8" larger inlay???

 

[Grimalkin]

There will most likely be a VERY long wait for the 44mm CPC A-molds. I discussed that possibility with Dave and he told me it would be roughly 18 months. Don't take my words as fact but I would contact him yourself and ask. Just want to give you a heads up. I am also confused on sending them to Gear. You are looking at buying custom CPC to send them to be murdered for an extra 1/8" larger inlay???

Ya I had heard about the 18 month, so I guess that gives me plenty of time, but it also gives me a deadline... heh

I really dislike the 7/8" inlay, it looks too small and I know I would never be fully happy with them. With that said, you do bring up a good point, I should order the chips with the 7/8" inlay and play with them for awhile and see if I can be happy with them. I can always decide later to goto gear and upsize the inlay for extra cost. if I am going custom I want to be happy with every aspect. It does help that I am within driving distance from Gear and can drop them off and pick them up.

I want a larger 43-44mm tourney set, and from the paulsons Ive seen recently go up for sale they are reaching $9.50/chip used for a high end tourny set.. custom seems to make sense.

 

[Huskerchipper]

Happy to hear you are aware. For some it's a deal breaker so just wanted to let you know. I understand what you mean on the inlay size but I think you might find it acceptable after you get them. Everyone, myself included, overthink this stuff but all the options is what makes this hobby so much fun! The 43-44 is definitely an intriguing thought...its why I'm considering going in on one of the Tina Group Buys.

 

[SavageLizard]

Ya I had heard about the 18 month, so I guess that gives me plenty of time, but it also gives me a deadline... heh

I really dislike the 7/8" inlay, it looks too small and I know I would never be fully happy with them. With that said, you do bring up a good point, I should order the chips with the 7/8" inlay and play with them for awhile and see if I can be happy with them. I can always decide later to goto gear and upsize the inlay for extra cost. if I am going custom I want to be happy with every aspect. It does help that I am within driving distance from Gear and can drop them off and pick them up.

I want a larger 43-44mm tourney set, and from the paulsons Ive seen recently go up for sale they are reaching $9.50/chip used for a high end tourny set.. custom seems to make sense.

Unless you're set on clay, why not just do ceramics? You'll have a larger area for your design without having to modify chips, they will cost a lot less, and you can get them much quicker. And if you ever need to add more, all of those things will come into play again.

 

[Wils]

Okay well after doing some math I can add a few more barrels to make my chips accommodate 20 players with looser stacks (12/12/7/6) and 30 players with tighter stacks (8/8/6/6).

Using mainly the 5K chip for colour ups, and rebuy. Will have some extra 500 and 1K chips at 20 players but the 5K will do the rebuy and colour up work I am hoping.

Falling down the rabbit hole real quick here. Hoping I don’t all the sudden decide to buy more to accommodate T100 base!

T100 is the way to go!

 

[Natskule]

Unless you're set on clay, why not just do ceramics? You'll have a larger area for your design without having to modify chips, they will cost a lot less, and you can get them much quicker. And if you ever need to add more, all of those things will come into play again.

Great advice. Ceramics are perfect for chips that need a big inlay, as the whole chip can be used. I'd rather see a ceramic than a giant inlay clay chip anyway. Why go clay if the inlay covers up the whole chip?

 

[Grimalkin]

T100 is the way to go!

Welp, didn't take me long, as much as I love having those green chips on the table, I am moving to a T50K starting stack with 500BB at the start and T100 base. I can choose to do blinds (first 4 lvls):

50-100
75-150
125-250
200-400

or I can just do

100-100
100-200
200-300
200-400

Seems pretty obvious that I am forcing the green T25s onto the felt, if I just stick to T100 base I can skip the colour up of the green T25. Kind of sucks because its only been a few months after I ponied up for the T25 set, now I am likely to not play them, unless I get many more players coming out, which I would then need to start using them again to get more needed chips on the table.

 

[Huskerchipper]

Your going to have color ups irregardless of what tournament you run. If you run your blinds levels efficiently they all run smooth. I change it up every month, i run a T.25 T1 T5 T25 T100 T1,000 my players don't mind the changes. I always use 100BB starting stacks so it keeps the Ratios similar irregardless. Good luck and enjoy!!

 

[Huskerchipper]

Welp, didn't take me long, as much as I love having those green chips on the table, I am moving to a T50K starting stack with 500BB at the start and T100 base. I can choose to do blinds:

50-100
75-150
125-250
200-400

or I can just do

100-100
100-200
200-300
200-400

Seems pretty obvious that I am forcing the green T25s onto the felt, if I just stick to T100 base I can skip the colour up of the green T25. Kind of sucks because its only been a few months after I ponied up for the T25 set, now I am likely to not play them, unless I get many more players coming out, which I would then need to start using them again to get more needed chips on the table.

Wait, hold on...I think I understand what your saying now. You were starting with 50k starting stacks and playing with 25's...then yeah that makes sense. Common sense told me you were running your T25 base structure with 5,000-20,000 starting stacks. You have enough chips to run a T25 OR a T100 base but your starting stacks should be entirely different dependant on what your lowest chip value is. Generally the smallest recommend starting stack is 100BB to say 500BB...you were using 1,000BB which I've never heard of.

 

[Grimalkin]

Wait, hold on...you are starting with 50k starting stacks and you only plan on your blinds going to 200-400?? What am I missing? That makes no sense. Might as well play a cash game.

That’s just the start… I was pointing out the fact I can lose the T25 and adjust first 3 lvl