T5/T25/T100 Tournament Set Advice Needed (1 Viewer)

[digirati]

Hello everyone! I could really use your help.

I've spent several days reading numerous posts and I'm a bit overwhelmed. Primarily because I've never hosted my own tournaments, not owned my own set. I figured it's best to ask those who've been at this longer than me. This will be my first set, and I'd rather have more chips, than be economical.

I'd like a set that can handle three types of single table tournaments of 10 players: T5/T25/T100 (200BB), plus a one time rebuy per player and one time add-on per player. Assume rebuys and add-ons would match the initial buy-in cost/stack. I don't know if I'll use regular antes or BBA, so assume whichever one requires more chips (that will protect me from coming up short on my set).

It would be easier for me had I only picked one format, but I like the idea of allowing for all three (T5/T25/T100) and just buying all of my chips at the same time.

Suggested starting stacks would be greatly appreciated too. I'd like my tournaments to be more casual and not rushed.

I really appreciate the help!

 

[MrRossKeys]

I only host T25 and T100 tournaments, so I can't really help with T5...

For T25 my setup is typically:

Per Player:
8x T25
8x T100
6x T500
?x T1000 depending on starting chip stack (1x for T5000, 6x for T10000, etc)

All rebuys and add-ons would be handled with the largest denominations possible. If 5k is the rebuy, and/or add-on, I give the player a 5k chip. All small denominations are already on the table, and players can make change from what is on the table. These get colored up later in the tournament anyway.

For a 1 table tournament with T10,000, starting stack, that is 8/8/6/6 per player for a total bank of T100,000 in chip value. If all 10 players rebought and added on (probably not possible, but let's solve for overkill) then the total bank value needs to cover T30,000 per player, or T300,000 in chip value.

In this case 60x T5000 chips and/or 300x T1000 chips (or combination of the two) will cover the entire value of the tournament. With this in mind, here's how many chips of each denom I would buy for a T25 tourney:

100x T25
100x T100
80x T500
160x T1000
60x T5000

Total: 500 chips (I would additionally buy 10-20 extra per denom to cover missing, damaged, or gifted chips, etc).

As soon as I consider more than 1 table these numbers are recalculated using the same formula from above.

---
In a T100 tournament the 100's stay in play longer, but the idea is the same.

Per Player: (T20,000 tourney)
10x T100
8x T500
5x T1000
2x T5000

Total chip value is 200,000, and with overkill coverage in mind the max value is 600,000. This would be my breakdown:

100x T100
80x T500
200x T1000
120x T5000

Total: 500 chips.

---
As you can see, you can cover a lot of starting stack tournaments with just 500 chips. Of course this is all based on starting stacks per player of 8/8/6/6 or 10/8/5/2. Many hosts here on PCF will tell you that they prefer larger starting stacks (illusion of more chips = more betting, more fun, more splashed pots, etc at the cost of a slightly slower game, longer to rake in pots, count chips, etc)... My experience playing tournaments in Vegas is that players usually start with a woefully small number of actual chips, and the dealers color up chips very quickly, so I am used to smaller stacks with higher denoms from the beginning.

In summary, you can always buy as many chips as you want... exceed these recommendations... the more the merrier... But, from my experience the T25 and T500 chips are only important in the first and in-between levels, so having a ton extra of these chips doesn't make sense... until you start hosting multi-table tournaments.

Cheers!

 

[Defarse]

I only host 9 player single table tourneys. I started with T5, then went to T25 and now settled on T100 just because I wanted to mimic what the majority of the casinos use for their tournaments (I started with T5 because I was playing online and wanted the 10/20 blinds........then I went to a casino and they were T25 with 25/50 blinds and then all the casinos changed to a big blind ante and T100 starting stacks). So, I don't see the need to do all three..........I've gotten rid of all my 5 and 25 chips. I get sets of 100 chips each of 100, 500, 1000, and 5000 and keep them in a Nanuk 910.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Unless you have a very specific reason to want all three formats, I'd make things easier on you and your players and just pick one. I personally have moved from T25 to T100 because we do a BBA now.

25k Stacks
100 x 15
500 x 5
1000 x 11
5000 x 2

 

[Defarse]

T100, I do 10/8/10/2 25,000 starting stacks:
10x100
8x500
10x1000
2x500

Rebuys with 5x5000

 

[GetUrShineBox]

Unless you have a very specific reason to want all three formats, I'd make things easier on you and your players and just pick one. I personally have moved from T25 to T100 because we do a BBA now.

25k Stacks
100 x 15
500 x 5
1000 x 11
5000 x 2

This is exactly what I suggest. I love the 100 x 15, more chips, less change making.
- It mimics casino tournaments so if you and your players decide to start dabbling in those it will make it more comfortable for you. This is my main reason for liking the T100 format.
- If you like watching tournaments on YouTube there will probably be none that are T5 or T25. To me it nice relating to stack sizes on TV (well at least Day 1 of the televised tourneys)
- If you would like options maybe try a "high roller" set that starts T500 with $100k start stacks to switch things up.

To each their own, there is no wrong or right but T5 just seems really really old school. Also I play cash games with $5's why would I want to play tournaments with them. It's nice to bet amounts and have stacks you would have in a cash game. Just my 2 cents.

Good Luck!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Only reason to do a T5 tourney set is if your trying to have your set be flexible for cash and tourney imho

 

[PARADOX]

Hello everyone! I could really use your help.

I've spent several days reading numerous posts and I'm a bit overwhelmed. Primarily because I've never hosted my own tournaments, not owned my own set. I figured it's best to ask those who've been at this longer than me. This will be my first set, and I'd rather have more chips, than be economical.

I'd like a set that can handle three types of single table tournaments of 10 players: T5/T25/T100 (200BB), plus a one time rebuy per player and one time add-on per player. Assume rebuys and add-ons would match the initial buy-in cost/stack. I don't know if I'll use regular antes or BBA, so assume whichever one requires more chips (that will protect me from coming up short on my set).

It would be easier for me had I only picked one format, but I like the idea of allowing for all three (T5/T25/T100) and just buying all of my chips at the same time.

Suggested starting stacks would be greatly appreciated too. I'd like my tournaments to be more casual and not rushed.

I really appreciate the help!

I do a t100 structure starting with big blind ante right away. 20k starting stack with 2000 on time bonus and 500 exact change bonus. One rebuy.

10x100
5x500
9x1000
2x5000

Use 5000 chips for rebuys and chip up.

10 Player Breakdown:
100x100
100x500
180x1000
60x5000 (Exact is 52)

You can trim this further if you assume half the field will rebuy and use 5000 chips to buy smaller denoms from big stack in case more rebuy.

 

[digirati]

I only host T25 and T100 tournaments, so I can't really help with T5...

For T25 my setup is typically:

Per Player:
8x T25
8x T100
6x T500
?x T1000 depending on starting chip stack (1x for T5000, 6x for T10000, etc)

All rebuys and add-ons would be handled with the largest denominations possible. If 5k is the rebuy, and/or add-on, I give the player a 5k chip. All small denominations are already on the table, and players can make change from what is on the table. These get colored up later in the tournament anyway.

For a 1 table tournament with T10,000, starting stack, that is 8/8/6/6 per player for a total bank of T100,000 in chip value. If all 10 players rebought and added on (probably not possible, but let's solve for overkill) then the total bank value needs to cover T30,000 per player, or T300,000 in chip value.

In this case 60x T5000 chips and/or 300x T1000 chips (or combination of the two) will cover the entire value of the tournament. With this in mind, here's how many chips of each denom I would buy for a T25 tourney:

100x T25
100x T100
80x T500
160x T1000
60x T5000

Total: 500 chips (I would additionally buy 10-20 extra per denom to cover missing, damaged, or gifted chips, etc).

As soon as I consider more than 1 table these numbers are recalculated using the same formula from above.

---
In a T100 tournament the 100's stay in play longer, but the idea is the same.

Per Player: (T20,000 tourney)
10x T100
8x T500
5x T1000
2x T5000

Total chip value is 200,000, and with overkill coverage in mind the max value is 600,000. This would be my breakdown:

100x T100
80x T500
200x T1000
120x T5000

Total: 500 chips.

---
As you can see, you can cover a lot of starting stack tournaments with just 500 chips. Of course this is all based on starting stacks per player of 8/8/6/6 or 10/8/5/2. Many hosts here on PCF will tell you that they prefer larger starting stacks (illusion of more chips = more betting, more fun, more splashed pots, etc at the cost of a slightly slower game, longer to rake in pots, count chips, etc)... My experience playing tournaments in Vegas is that players usually start with a woefully small number of actual chips, and the dealers color up chips very quickly, so I am used to smaller stacks with higher denoms from the beginning.

In summary, you can always buy as many chips as you want... exceed these recommendations... the more the merrier... But, from my experience the T25 and T500 chips are only important in the first and in-between levels, so having a ton extra of these chips doesn't make sense... until you start hosting multi-table tournaments.

Cheers!

Thank you for taking the time to provide all of this information. Very helpful.

 

[digirati]

I only host 9 player single table tourneys. I started with T5, then went to T25 and now settled on T100 just because I wanted to mimic what the majority of the casinos use for their tournaments (I started with T5 because I was playing online and wanted the 10/20 blinds........then I went to a casino and they were T25 with 25/50 blinds and then all the casinos changed to a big blind ante and T100 starting stacks). So, I don't see the need to do all three..........I've gotten rid of all my 5 and 25 chips. I get sets of 100 chips each of 100, 500, 1000, and 5000 and keep them in a Nanuk 910.

I appreciate the feedback!

 

[digirati]

Unless you have a very specific reason to want all three formats, I'd make things easier on you and your players and just pick one. I personally have moved from T25 to T100 because we do a BBA now.

25k Stacks
100 x 15
500 x 5
1000 x 11
5000 x 2

I saw another PCF member who hosts a lot of tournaments for newbies (just like my friends) and stated the T5 allowed for an hour of play and that limping wouldn't cost them a significant portion of their stack. The idea being, if a first time tournament player has a good experience they would more likely play again in the future. If I'm reading/understanding the point correctly. Someone also mentioned T5 seems more similar to real dollar amounts in the beginning of the tournament, which could benefit new/inexperienced players.

 

[digirati]

This is exactly what I suggest. I love the 100 x 15, more chips, less change making.
- It mimics casino tournaments so if you and your players decide to start dabbling in those it will make it more comfortable for you. This is my main reason for liking the T100 format.
- If you like watching tournaments on YouTube there will probably be none that are T5 or T25. To me it nice relating to stack sizes on TV (well at least Day 1 of the televised tourneys)
- If you would like options maybe try a "high roller" set that starts T500 with $100k start stacks to switch things up.

To each their own, there is no wrong or right but T5 just seems really really old school. Also I play cash games with $5's why would I want to play tournaments with them. It's nice to bet amounts and have stacks you would have in a cash game. Just my 2 cents.

Good Luck!

I definitely like the idea of T100 and mimicking casino tournaments. That would be my preferred game. I read however for newbies the T5 would benefit them more. Basically, I want to get my crew of friends to play and feel comfortable.

 

[digirati]

Only reason to do a T5 tourney set is if your trying to have your set be flexible for cash and tourney imho

I appreciate the feedback. I plan to have a separate set for cash games.

 

[Defarse]

I definitely like the idea of T100 and mimicking casino tournaments. That would be my preferred game. I read however for newbies the T5 would benefit them more. Basically, I want to get my crew of friends to play and feel comfortable.

I would argue that you should start newbies on T100..........because if they start on T5 and then go to the casino, their heads might be spinning a bit.

 

[PARADOX]

I definitely like the idea of T100 and mimicking casino tournaments. That would be my preferred game. I read however for newbies the T5 would benefit them more. Basically, I want to get my crew of friends to play and feel comfortable.

My game is a mix of casual/never played in casino and experienced players. Typically host 12 to 15 players.

My goal is friendship and fellowship while following a structure that you would find at a casino as well as following rules you would find a casino. Idea being I want my players to be confident that they could play in a casino tournament and not be blindsided, or intimidated, by the structure or rules.

I would recommend not playing a t5 base. I've never seen one. I moved to t100 BBA because that seems to be the norm now.

 

[digirati]

I only host T25 and T100 tournaments, so I can't really help with T5...

For T25 my setup is typically:

Per Player:
8x T25
8x T100
6x T500
?x T1000 depending on starting chip stack (1x for T5000, 6x for T10000, etc)

All rebuys and add-ons would be handled with the largest denominations possible. If 5k is the rebuy, and/or add-on, I give the player a 5k chip. All small denominations are already on the table, and players can make change from what is on the table. These get colored up later in the tournament anyway.

For a 1 table tournament with T10,000, starting stack, that is 8/8/6/6 per player for a total bank of T100,000 in chip value. If all 10 players rebought and added on (probably not possible, but let's solve for overkill) then the total bank value needs to cover T30,000 per player, or T300,000 in chip value.

In this case 60x T5000 chips and/or 300x T1000 chips (or combination of the two) will cover the entire value of the tournament. With this in mind, here's how many chips of each denom I would buy for a T25 tourney:

100x T25
100x T100
80x T500
160x T1000
60x T5000

Total: 500 chips (I would additionally buy 10-20 extra per denom to cover missing, damaged, or gifted chips, etc).

As soon as I consider more than 1 table these numbers are recalculated using the same formula from above.

---
In a T100 tournament the 100's stay in play longer, but the idea is the same.

Per Player: (T20,000 tourney)
10x T100
8x T500
5x T1000
2x T5000

Total chip value is 200,000, and with overkill coverage in mind the max value is 600,000. This would be my breakdown:

100x T100
80x T500
200x T1000
120x T5000

Total: 500 chips.

---
As you can see, you can cover a lot of starting stack tournaments with just 500 chips. Of course this is all based on starting stacks per player of 8/8/6/6 or 10/8/5/2. Many hosts here on PCF will tell you that they prefer larger starting stacks (illusion of more chips = more betting, more fun, more splashed pots, etc at the cost of a slightly slower game, longer to rake in pots, count chips, etc)... My experience playing tournaments in Vegas is that players usually start with a woefully small number of actual chips, and the dealers color up chips very quickly, so I am used to smaller stacks with higher denoms from the beginning.

In summary, you can always buy as many chips as you want... exceed these recommendations... the more the merrier... But, from my experience the T25 and T500 chips are only important in the first and in-between levels, so having a ton extra of these chips doesn't make sense... until you start hosting multi-table tournaments.

Cheers!

I've received some feedback that I should just settle on one format, like T100, instead of three possible formats. I'm starting to questions my initial thoughts. Can I ask why you host both T25 and T100?

 

[digirati]

My goal is friendship and fellowship

That's exactly what I am going for! Since you do the T100, can you please tell me your blind levels, if not too much trouble?

 

[Defarse]

Here are my blind levels for T100 25,000:

100/200
200/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
1000/1500
Break/Color-up 100 and 500
1000/2000
2000/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000

 

[digirati]

Here are my blind levels for T100 25,000:

100/200
200/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
1000/1500
Break/Color-up 100 and 500
1000/2000
2000/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000

Thank you, and have a great day!

 

[GetUrShineBox]

I would argue that you should start newbies on T100..........because if they start on T5 and then go to the casino, their heads might be spinning a bit.

I was about to write this same exact thing.
Newbies will learn whatever you teach them. Neither of the options will be "easier" for them therefore going with what casinos use most I would think would be best for everyone, newbie or not.

 

[allforcharity]

Reasons to consider a T25 base:

$25 chips are the red-headed step-child of all denominations. The T100 base tourney operators don't use them. The cash hosts would rather have three mountains worth of $5 on the table before getting a single $25 chip into play.

This means that $25 chips tend to be plentiful and inexpensive compared to other denoms, and you can fill in your tourney (and cash) sets fairly painlessly.

 

[digirati]

Reasons to consider a T25 base:

$25 chips are the red-headed step-child of all denominations. The T100 base tourney operators don't use them. The cash hosts would rather have three mountains worth of $5 on the table before getting a single $25 chip into play.

This means that $25 chips tend to be plentiful and inexpensive compared to other denoms, and you can fill in your tourney (and cash) sets fairly painlessly.

I plan on buying a new CPC set so I won't be trying to find used chips, but I appreciate the input.

 

[GreekRedEye]

Reasons to consider a T25 base:

$25 chips are the red-headed step-child of all denominations. The T100 base tourney operators don't use them. The cash hosts would rather have three mountains worth of $5 on the table before getting a single $25 chip into play.

This means that $25 chips tend to be plentiful and inexpensive compared to other denoms, and you can fill in your tourney (and cash) sets fairly painlessly.

I see all the hate for a base T5 set, but it seems to me the math would be really convenient for a big tournament. But I'd love to hear from someone with actual experience running lots of tables at once. @allforcharity, you run some pretty big tournaments, right?

Here's my thinking:
200 BBs for T5 is 2000. That breaks down to 10/10/7/2 starting. For each table of 10 players that makes 3 tidy racks: 1 rack of T5s, 1 rack of T25s, 1 rack with 70 T100s and 30 T500s. Those 10 extra 500s are for color ups but, you could use the 10 extra slots for on-time bonus chips or bounty chips for exactly 10 players. Speaking of color ups, a table of 10 players would need exactly one T500 chip to color up the 5s and five T500 chips to color up 25s. A 600 chip versa cage would hold the exact chips needed for 2 tables. So, if you are running 6 tables, grab 3 bird cages. Walk to table 1, open 1 birdcage and pull out 3 racks and build the stacks. Walk the birdcage over to table 2 and build those stacks. New bird cage to table 3. Etc. You'd need a separate case to hold more high value chips for add-ons, re-buys, and color-ups, but you'd want those centralized anyway, I think.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

I see all the hate for a base T5 set, but it seems to me the math would be really convenient for a big tournament. But I'd love to hear from someone with actual experience running lots of tables at once. @allforcharity, you run some pretty big tournaments, right?

Here's my thinking:
200 BBs for T5 is 2000. That breaks down to 10/10/7/2 starting. For each table of 10 players that makes 3 tidy racks: 1 rack of T5s, 1 rack of T25s, 1 rack with 70 T100s and 30 T500s. Those 10 extra 500s are for color ups but, you could use the 10 extra slots for on-time bonus chips or bounty chips for exactly 10 players. Speaking of color ups, a table of 10 players would need exactly one T500 chip to color up the 5s and five T500 chips to color up 25s. A 600 chip versa cage would hold the exact chips needed for 2 tables. So, if you are running 6 tables, grab 3 bird cages. Walk to table 1, open 1 birdcage and pull out 3 racks and build the stacks. Walk the birdcage over to table 2 and build those stacks. New bird cage to table 3. Etc. You'd need a separate case to hold more high value chips for add-ons, re-buys, and color-ups, but you'd want those centralized anyway, I think.

The math you are using is fine if your OCD makes you cringe at the thought of having 160 of one chip which will not fill two full racks. But the reality is before your players get there you would want them reorganized in starting stacks per player and then the math of it as they fit in even racks goes out the window. Hope that makes sense, lol.

 

[allforcharity]

@allforcharity, you run some pretty big tournaments, right?

Nope, not yet, but I aspire to. I have enough chip denom diversity to run all the way from T0.25 base to T25000 base. My T25 base set can do 100 players.

 

[GreekRedEye]

Nope, not yet, but I aspire to. I have enough chip denom diversity to run all the way from T0.25 base to T25000 base. My T25 base set can do 100 players.

Wait...a tourney set with base T0.25?

 

[PARADOX]

That's exactly what I am going for! Since you do the T100, can you please tell me your blind levels, if not too much trouble?

 

[GreekRedEye]

The math you are using is fine if your OCD makes you cringe at the thought of having 160 of one chip which will not fill two full racks. But the reality is before your players get there you would want them reorganized in starting stacks per player and then the math of it as they fit in even racks goes out the window. Hope that makes sense, lol.

Less OCD and more that I am afraid I will mess something up horribly when I try to scale beyond 2 tables! Personally, I am partial to base T25.

Speaking of cool math...
My suggestion for those building a home game tourney set: get 240 of T25 and 240 of T100. Even if you expect to run just one table, you may want to expand in the future. Those numbers allow you to run 2 tables with 12/12/3/7 or 3 tables with 8/8/4/7. Unfortunately, I did not figure this out until after I ordered my own custom set.

 

[MrRossKeys]

I've received some feedback that I should just settle on one format, like T100, instead of three possible formats. I'm starting to questions my initial thoughts. Can I ask why you host both T25 and T100?

Sure.

When I host tournaments for fun/casual/friends etc. I typically run the following game:

• $40, $50, or $60 buy-in
• 7500 starting chips
• 25/50 starting blinds
• Unlimited rebuys until the end of level 4
• Optional add-on between level 4 and level 5 (typically $40 for 5000 chips)
• Prize pool pays out top 3 for 1 table or top 5 for 2 tables.

The goal of this tourney is just to have fun, play for a long time, and ultimately award a winner. Usually lasts 3-5 hours with 15 minute blinds or 4-6 hours with 20 minute blinds.

Lately I've been hosting a satellite series for the WSOP Main Event. We play 8 matches over the course of 5 months, and the first place prize is $10K + travel expenses for the winner to play in the Main Event. We also play tournaments leading up to our satellite series. This tournament structure is more strict:

• $100 or $150 buy-in
• 20,000 starting chips
• 100/100 starting blinds
• BB ante starting on level 3
• Freeze-out (no rebuys)
• No add-ons
• Maximum 20 players (2 tables of 10 players)
• Prize pool pays out top 2 players or is used for them to enter our satellite series of 8 matches (typically a $725 buy-in)

During our entry tournaments we run this structure with 15 minute levels (2-4 hours), and during our satellite series we run 30 minute levels just like WSOP (6-8 hours).

Hope this helps!

 

[digirati]

Sure.

When I host tournaments for fun/casual/friends etc. I typically run the following game:

• $40, $50, or $60 buy-in
• 7500 starting chips
• 25/50 starting blinds
• Unlimited rebuys until the end of level 4
• Optional add-on between level 4 and level 5 (typically $40 for 5000 chips)
• Prize pool pays out top 3 for 1 table or top 5 for 2 tables.

The goal of this tourney is just to have fun, play for a long time, and ultimately award a winner. Usually lasts 3-5 hours with 15 minute blinds or 4-6 hours with 20 minute blinds.

Lately I've been hosting a satellite series for the WSOP Main Event. We play 8 matches over the course of 5 months, and the first place prize is $10K + travel expenses for the winner to play in the Main Event. We also play tournaments leading up to our satellite series. This tournament structure is more strict:

• $100 or $150 buy-in
• 20,000 starting chips
• 100/100 starting blinds
• BB ante starting on level 3
• Freeze-out (no rebuys)
• No add-ons
• Maximum 20 players (2 tables of 10 players)
• Prize pool pays out top 2 players or is used for them to enter our satellite series of 8 matches (typically a $725 buy-in)

During our entry tournaments we run this structure with 15 minute levels (2-4 hours), and during our satellite series we run 30 minute levels just like WSOP (6-8 hours).

Hope this helps!

Wow, I really like this! I decided to drop the T5 based upon the helpful comments from everyone above, and I like your T25 and T100 structures. Having two options provides more flexibility.

Additionally, @BGinGA mentioned in a different thread that if designing a new CPC set from scratch it would be the following:

200 x T25
200 x T100
100 x T500
200 x T1000
200 x T5000
100 x T25000
‐‐-----------
1000 chips

Allows T25-, T100-, and T500-base events.

So, I'm almost ready to pull the trigger. I like your T25/T100 structures and I think I'm going to follow @BGinGA and buy the dream set of 1,000 chips above. What I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out (without my head exploding) is can that set also handle this:

T100-base ($40k stacks = 200bb, 100/200)
Up to 20 players
15/5/11/5 (I read 15 x T100 makes for easier BBA, less making change)
1 Rebuy per person, $40k chips (error on high side)
1 Add-on per person $20k chips (assume everyone does an add-on)
2 T1000 chips for arriving on time (idea from another PCF member)
1 T500 chip for having exact change (idea from another PCF member)

That's a lot to unpack, especially for me. I'm hopeful, the set above can handle that.

If not, what additional chips would I need?

I sincerely appreciate everyone's comments and help so far. This is such a great forum. Lots of people, generous with their advice and time.