Tourney Help With Structure (1 Viewer)

[warewulf]

I'm having a tournament Saturday:

$100 buy in big stack with 30 minute rounds. Looking like 16 players. I'm thinking 15 - 20K starting stacks.

I plugged it into Poker soup and came up with:

I would do 150/300 instead of 125/250 and 175/350...

1. [+0:00] -- 25 / 50

2. [+0:30] -- 50 / 100

3. [+1:00] -- 75 / 150

4. [+1:30] -- 100 / 200

5. [+2:00] -- 125 / 250

6. [+2:30] -- 175 / 350

7. [+3:00] -- 300 / 600

8. [+3:30] -- 400 / 800

9. [+4:00] -- 500 / 1000

10. [+4:30] -- 800 / 1600

11. [+5:00] -- 1000 / 2000

12. [+5:30] -- 1500 / 3000

13. [+6:00] -- 3000 / 6000

14. [+6:30] -- 4000 / 8000

15. [+7:00] -- 5000 / 10000

16. [+7:30] -- 8000 / 16000

17. [+8:00] -- 10000 / 20000

18. [+8:30] -- 15000 / 30000

19. [+9:00] -- 30000 / 60000

20. [+9:30] -- 40000 / 80000

 

[warewulf]

 

[Mojo1312]

Freeze-out or Re-buys?

8 hours is the preferred duration?

 

[warewulf]

I'll allow rebuys the first 2 hours, but don't expect many unless I have a bad night...

Around 8 hours.

 

[JustinInMN]

That looks timed about right for 8 hours with T15K stacks, no breaks and assuming a 50% rebuys rate.

Youu could throw a 25-75 in between 25-50 and 50-100 to avoid that early double.

 

[Beakertwang]

You have a 100% increase between L12 and L13, and also between L18 and L19, although the latter may not come into play. At any rate, I'd try to smooth those out a bit.

 

[JustinInMN]

It's simplistic, but I am just a fan of doing multiples of 2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 for each chip in play. Optional 1-1, 1-2, 2-3 at the very start to make things even deeper.

No program looks better than this to me.

 

[Frogzilla]

I’d throw a 200/400 level between 150/300 and 300/600 and a 2000/4000 between 1500/3000 and 3000/6000

 

[Lancew09]

Here's my setup I used from anywhere from 15 to 30 seat tournament. We start with 10K and have re-buys until the first break. We play for +/- 6 hours w/ roughly 50 minutes worth of breaks, dinner being a big break.

I would assume with your larger starting stacks, you could use the same structure and it would last longer, 30 minutes levels vs my 20 minutes would help make it longer. I'd suggest a shorter tournament and then play cash once you're down to 1 table, all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Try to avoid 100% jumps, the game will run smoother and not make players feel like they have to jam - then your playing bingo!

Level 1 - 25/50 – 5:30
Level 2 - 50/100 – 5:50
Level 3 - 75/150 – 6:10
Level 4 - 100/200 – 6:30
Level 5 - 150/300 – 6:50
BREAK – 7:10 (30 min.) BREAK / EAT & Color Up ** 25’s **/100’s & 500’s
**RE-BUY or SURRENDERD STACK CUT OFF**
Level 6 - 200/400 – 7:40
Level 7 - 300/600 – 8:00
Level 8 - 400/800 – 8:20
Level 9 - 600/1200 – 8:40
Level 10 - 800/1600 – 9:00
BREAK – 9:20 (10 min.) Color Up ** 100’s** /500’s & 1000’s
Level 11 - 1000/2000 – 9:30
Level 12 - 1500/3000 – 9:50
Level 13 - 2000/4000 – 10:10
Level 14 - 3000/6000 -10:30
BREAK – 10:50 (10 min.) Color Up. ** 500’s **/ All 5k
Level 15 - 5000/10000 – 11:00
Level 16 - 8000/16000 – 11:20
Level 17 - 10000/20000 – 11:40
Level 18 - 15000/30000 – 12:00

 

[BGinGA]

I plugged it into Poker soup

You have a 100% increase between L12 and L13, and also between L18 and L19,

Plus another 100% jump between L1 and L2. Pour that nasty soup down the garbage disposal.


Here's a 30-minute 300BB deep-stack event that typically runs 8 hours for 16 players:

T15000 stacks, 30-minute blinds
lvl sb bb
L1 25 50
L2 25 75
L3 50 100
L4 75 150
L5 100 200
L6 150 300
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1100 2200
L13 1500 3000
remove T100/T500 chips
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 6000 12000 ** EOT
L18 8000 16000
L19 10000 20000

All increases range between 33%-50%, averaging 41%. Should finish no later than L17, and likely a couple of levels sooner.

 

[1A25R]

the tool proposed 175 / 350 ?


this is the structure that I use on my games, we play 10K with re-buy
for your example 16p x 20k the tournament will end at LVL 20 at worse certainly at lvl 15/16
7h game guarantee, 10h maximum


S.B. B.B.
25 50
50 100
100 200
150 300
-pause & chip up -
200 400
300 600
400 800
500 1000
-pause-
600 1200
800 1600
1000 2000
1200 2400
-pause-
1500 3000
2000 4000
2500 5000
3000 6000
-pause-
4000 8000
5000 10000
6000 12000
8000 16000
-pause-
10000 20000
15000 30000
20000 40000
25000 50000
30000 60000

 

[warewulf]

Ok, thanks all for the help. I'll use one of these. Don't want any weird blind levels or strange jumps.

 

[warewulf]

Plus another 100% jump between L1 and L2. Pour that nasty soup down the garbage disposal.


Here's a 30-minute 300BB deep-stack event that typically runs 8 hours for 16 players:

T15000 stacks, 30-minute blinds
lvl sb bb
L1 25 50
L2 25 75
L3 50 100
L4 75 150
L5 100 200
L6 150 300
remove T25 chips
L7 200 400
L8 300 600
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200
L11 800 1600
L12 1100 2200
L13 1500 3000
remove T100/T500 chips
L14 2000 4000
L15 3000 6000
L16 4000 8000
L17 6000 12000 ** EOT
L18 8000 16000
L19 10000 20000

All increases range between 33%-50%, averaging 41%. Should finish no later than L17, and likely a couple of levels sooner.

So now up to 16 players with some strong maybes. Going to cap at 20. Figure I'll use the above and add antes, remove 25/75. You think start antes at 150/300? Figure I'll do a BB ante.

It will be 20K in chips, rebuys first 2 hours, no add on.

 

[Pinball]

blindvalet.fr is always a good help for NL Holdem structur

 

[Trihonda]

Antes suck... self dealt game? They’ll just slow down the action. Use a good structure, and antes aren’t needed.

 

[BGinGA]

So now up to 16 players with some strong maybes. Going to cap at 20. Figure I'll use the above and add antes, remove 25/75. You think start antes at 150/300? Figure I'll do a BB ante.

It will be 20K in chips, rebuys first 2 hours, no add on.

That's gonna run a lot longer than 8 hours.

Antes suck... self dealt game? They’ll just slow down the action. Use a good structure, and antes aren’t needed.

Totally agree, I'd ditch the antes idea.

If running 20k stacks, just start at L3 50/100 and you'll be fine.

 

[warewulf]

So apparently you guys don't know my players.

I asked 5 of the players if they prefer an ante or not. All 5 want an ante and don't understand why I wouldn't. Go figure.

So starting with something like this and will modify for BB ante and get rid of 'weird' levels like 125 / 250 and make it 150 / 300.

Maybe add 800 / 1600 after 600 / 1200

 

[Lancew09]

So apparently you guys don't know my players.

I asked 5 of the players if they prefer an ante or not. All 5 want an ante and don't understand why I wouldn't. Go figure.

So starting with something like this and will modify for BB ante and get rid of 'weird' levels like 125 / 250 and make it 150 / 300.

Maybe add 800 / 1600 after 600 / 1200

View attachment 304299

If you “Have” to have an ante, do a Big Blind ante so the pace of your game is not to slow. You will waste time making sure everyone antes every hand, slowing the game down tremendously. I’d rather not have an ante and see more hands per blind level.

 

[warewulf]

If you “Have” to have an ante, do a Big Blind ante so the pace of your game is not to slow. You will waste time making sure everyone antes every hand, slowing the game down tremendously. I’d rather not have an ante and see more hands per blind level.

Yes, definitely a BB ante. The group is apparently used to this because many play in a WSOP league that does the same.

 

[Frogzilla]

Yes, definitely a BB ante. The group is apparently used to this because many play in a WSOP league that does the same.

100% agree with going the ante route. It’s a different game without them, based just on the odds to the enter the pot changing opening ranges, and the corresponding changes to postflop play.

Every casino tournament I’ve ever participated in used antes which is probably 30-40 at this point.

 

[JustinInMN]

If you are doing BBA, the events I played it have started

SB-BB-BBA
100-100
100-200
100-200-200
200-300-300
200-400-400
etc...

I still like using 25s so maybe you do this equivalency
50-100
75-150
75-150-150
100-200-200
150-300-300
(Color T25)
200-400-400
300-600-600
400-800-800
600-1200-1200
800-1600-1600
1200-2400-2400
1600-3200-3200
(Color T100 & T500)
2K-4K-4K
3K-6K-6K
4K-8K-8K
6K-12K-12K (Expected EOT for T15K)
8K-16K-16K (Expected EOT for T20K)
(Color TK)
10K-20K
15K-30K
20K-40K
30K-60K
40K-80K

So I am figuring Total Estimated chips / 40 (without BBA, our rule of thumb is total est chips / 20 = last BB).

With that caclulation you are probably looking at 15 or 16 levels plus breaks. That seems doable in 9 hours. If you need to make sure you are within 8, do 25 min levels instead.

 

[Mr Winberg]

An FYI, in post 17 you've forgotten to tick "Rebuys".

If there's a ~25% rebuy rate, 20 players, and 20k stacks, that means around 500k in play. With antes the tournament will probably end with about 30 big blinds in play, but probably a bit earlier since it's a long tournament. But counting on 30 BBs, that means it will end around level 8k/16k. I would not start too deep, I would rather have a smooth progression throughout the tournament. 200 big blinds is sufficient IMO, especially if you don't double between levels 1 and 2. This is of course a question of preference.

Example:
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
Color up T25, end of rebuys.
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
Color up T100
1000/2000
1500/3000
Color up T500
2k/4k
3k/6k
4k/8k
6k/12k
8k/16k (ends around here)

After level 8k/16k your progression should depend on how hard the deadline is. Continue a smooth progression if you can, otherwise force an end with a steeper progression (and perhaps shorter levels)

If you can consider having 25 minute levels instead, you can smoothen it out further with 3 more levels, for example 250/500, 500/1000, and 1200/2400.

Note: This example is based on 8h of poker, not counting breaks.

You think start antes at 150/300? Figure I'll do a BB ante.

If doing a BB ante, you might as well have it from the start IMO.

 

[Frogzilla]

If doing a BB ante, you might as well have it from the start IMO.

Agreed it’s a better game that way, but it isn’t how WSOP does it

 

[BGinGA]

Fuck wsop, they are clueless -- they even have shitty chips.

 

[warewulf]

Current head count for tonight is 18, capping at 20. This is what I'm going with:

 

[Mr Winberg]

You are doubling the blinds between levels 13 and 14. I would change level 14 to 3000/6000 to avoid that.

An FYI, all experts on this forum are against doubling the blinds, and I agree with them. Some give leniency for the jump to level 2, but some even avoid that jump at all cost.

If you want to be consistent, change level 16 to 7k/14k so it mirrors level 10. I think it looks a bit weird that the BB increase to level 16 is 6k, but to level 17 only 4k. The other way around makes more sense, IMO.

Either way, I hope you have a blast and take it down!

 

[BGinGA]

He really didn't want any help.

 

[warewulf]

You are doubling the blinds between levels 13 and 14. I would change level 13 to 3000/6000 to avoid that.

An FYI, all experts on this forum are against doubling the blinds, and I agree with them. Some give leniency for the jump to level 2, but some even avoid that jump at all cost.

If you want to be consistent, change level 16 to 7k/14k so it mirrors level 10. I think it looks a bit weird that the BB increase to level 16 is 6k, but to level 17 only 4k. The other way around makes more sense, IMO.

Either way, I hope you have a blast and take it down!

Makes sense, changed it.

He really didn't want any help.

No I do. Just don't want shitty advice like 'no antes' lol.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Makes sense, changed it

Actually, I think a better idea is to have 2k/4k, 3k/6k, 4k/8k, 5k/10k, mirroring levels 6, 7, 8, and 9. This means one extra level, so compensate by removing the first level, i.e., 25/50. That's just a warmup anyway with 400 BBs, it won't be missed. Also, you won't have any blinds doubling ever

Edit: I see now in your screenshot that that's what you did, sorry! Be aware that the tournament will now last a level longer.

Edit nr 2: IMO you don't need level 18 (8k/16), I would remove it. My proposed 7k/14k was supposed to replace 8k/16k.

 

[warewulf]

Actually, I think a better idea is to have 2k/4k, 3k/6k, 4k/8k, 5k/10k, mirroring levels 6, 7, 8, and 9. This means one extra level, so compensate by removing the first level, i.e., 25/50. That's just a warmup anyway with 400 BBs, it won't be missed. Also, you won't have any blinds doubling ever

Edit: I see now in your screenshot that that's what you did, sorry! Be aware that the tournament will now last a level longer.

Edit nr 2: IMO you don't need level 18 (8k/16), I would remove it. My proposed 7k/14k was supposed to replace 8k/16k.

I was talking with my co-host and he thought we should have 2 100/200 levels. One without the BB ante and one with. So we added that round and dropped 25/50.

**Note: The software (DD Poker) does not support a BB ante. So started it at level 4.

With 18 players and 2 rebuys, breaks, etc, the game was heads up at 7:30PM (started at noon) and ended in a chop. I really like the final structure and so did the players.

Thanks to those that made suggestions.

Final Structure: