When did this community become so ??? (2 Viewers)

[superchromix]

Just because you regret your purchase does not mean the items you purchased lost value. Put them up for auction... I guarantee they will sell at or above your purchase price.

@pltrgyst @Shaggy

I’m not necessarily talking about me and my chips. My point is that the boat chips undoubtedly had an impact on the market (because every change in supply does, to a degree), and regardless of what the magnitude of that change was in the end, all of the GB members effectively risked the value of other people’s chips. During the GB, people made investment decisions (partly based on misleading statements from some GB members), that they would not otherwise have made if they knew the truth.

 

[hdgeno]

I’ve always bought chips I like, and then sold to buy chips that I like more. Apparently I’m doing this chipping thing all wrong, and should be focused more on “investing”. But then it feels like work and not a hobby....

 

[Anthony Martino]

@gopherblue and I have never been fans of one another and probably never will be. That being said, I agree with him here, this is just getting ridiculous.

When the fracture in the community occurred I was very upset by all the drama and hurt and division that was caused, and was pretty vocal about threads being locked and people shut down.

But, on the other side of the coin, I completely understand the need for secrecy to pull of what amounts to the Oceans 11 of the chipping world. The cat couldn't be let out of the bag because too much was at stake. People were risking thousands and tens of thousands of dollars with the possibility of that money vanishing.

If you want to be upset about people profiting off the chips, well, NO ONE is owed ANY chips. No one is FORCED to purchase chips, let alone pay inflated prices. If someone chooses to pay a ridiculous sum of money for chips, hey, its their money to spend how they see fit.

I love the chips, especially the Empress Star. But I wouldn't pony up $5+ per chip, kudos to you if you've got the scratch and want to spend it like that. It's your money and your choice. If no one ponies up the cash then the seller either has to lower their price or not sell the chips.

 

[Anthony Martino]

And to add, to complain about losing out on your "investment" in chips by having their value drop after the group buy chips showed up, cry me a river. Your "investment"??? So you were looking to buy the chips cheap and flip them for a profit? Sounds like you're being pretty hypocritical to me.

 

[Lemonzest]

And to add, to complain about losing out on your "investment" in chips by having their value drop after the group buy chips showed up, cry me a river. Your "investment"??? So you were looking to buy the chips cheap and flip them for a profit? Sounds like you're being pretty hypocritical to me.

This is an uncharitable representation of what he said. Being bothered the value of my house decreased doesnt mean I bought with the intention of profiting.

 

[Anthony Martino]

This is an uncharitable representation of what he said. Being bothered the value of my house decreased doesnt mean I bought with the intention of profiting.

If you're not selling the chips and bought them with the intention to enjoy them and use them in your game, then how does their value affect that? You have the chips you coveted and can utilize them. The boat chips don't change that.

 

[Lemonzest]

If you're not selling the chips and bought them with the intention to enjoy them and use them in your game, then how does their value affect that? You have the chips you coveted and can utilize them. The boat chips don't change that.

I have no plans to sell my house. I would still be bothered if something happened in the market which decreased my property value. No one wants their assets to decrease in value. IF the premise is true that the boat chips reduced the value of other sets then one is justified in being bothered by that.

 

[BGinGA]

IF the premise is true that the boat chips reduced the value of other sets then one is justified in being bothered by that.

Yeah, and that's the falsehood of his assertion. Total bunk.

 

[Perthmike]

Yeah, and that's the falsehood of his assertion. Total bunk.

I’d agree that the market hasn’t been affected, apart from maybe an extremely short term blip. For the most part chip prices are at an all time high. Random racks of rhc chips that will require relabelling are selling for $200+ in the current market. That’s kind of mental.

It certainly caused some friction, but in the long term it had an immaterial affect on the market.

 

[MacGrad]

I’d agree that the market hasn’t been affected, apart from maybe an extremely short term blip. For the most part chip prices are at an all time high. Random racks of rhc chips that will require relabelling are selling for $200+ in the current market. That’s kind of mental.

It certainly caused some friction, but in the long term it had an immaterial affect on the market.

Using your logic, those people who sold during the "blip" were affected by the Boat Chips; it doesn't matter what the long-term impact is if you sold during that time. And you can't say they should have held on to their chips to ride it through -- there was no guarantee prices would rebound, and some people might not have had the luxury of waiting.

In the long-term: the Great Depression, the Great Recession, and the DotCom Bubble had no impact on the current market levels. In the short term, the impact was significant.

 

[Highli99]

Random racks of rhc chips that will require relabelling are selling for $200+ in the current market. That’s kind of mental.

Hey don't tap the glass. Newbies like me have to start somewhere. We understand THCs are better but they command higher prices and there aren't as many of them readily available.

Doesn't make us mental or even naive. Value is subjective and when you are new to a market you are probably going to overpay for awhile until you learn value better. Or you're not going to buy anything because you won't recognize deals. It's more fun to pay $30 or $40 too much and get chips.

The price of precious metals fluxtuates and silver doesn't always move in tandem with gold. More people can afford to stack silver. I'd rather stack clay, even if its CPC or RHC at $200+ a rack.

One day ill have my THC. And I'll probably overpay way more then too

 

[Perthmike]

Using your logic, those people who sold during the "blip" were affected by the Boat Chips; it doesn't matter what the long-term impact is if you sold during that time. And you can't say they should have held on to their chips to ride it through -- there was no guarantee prices would rebound, and some people might not have had the luxury of waiting.

In the long-term: the Great Depression, the Great Recession, and the DotCom Bubble had no impact on the current market levels. In the short term, the impact was significant.

In the interest of full disclosure, I sold several sets during the blip, just after the boat sets became public, in order to purchase a set of boat chips.

Given the sets I sold and the timing, I was affected by the boat sets as much as anyone. In addition, I have to sell from Australia, so have to factor extra shipping into my selling prices.

In spite of this, I don’t really think the price of my sets were particularly affected by the discovery of the existence of the boat sets.

I think people need to change their mind sets around chips and investments. It’s the same with luxury watches. I don’t buy them as an investment, I buy them because I like them. If they maintain value, or even gain some, that’s a bonus.

Plus, if you really enjoy chips, you should celebrate a short or long term drop in prices.

I’m just really sick of all the arguing. I’m not inserting myself into either side, I’m just making the point about prices continuing to rise, in spite of the boat sets.

 

[Perthmike]

Hey don't tap the glass. Newbies like me have to start somewhere. We understand THCs are better but they command higher prices and there aren't as many of them readily available.

Doesn't make us mental or even naive. Value is subjective and when you are new to a market you are probably going to overpay for awhile until you learn value better. Or you're not going to buy anything because you won't recognize deals. It's more fun to pay $30 or $40 too much and get chips.

The price of precious metals fluxtuates and silver doesn't always move in tandem with gold. More people can afford to stack silver. I'd rather stack clay, even if its CPC or RHC at $200+ a rack.

One day ill have my THC. And I'll probably overpay way more then too

I’m sorry if you though that comment was meant to be offensive, i didn’t intend it that way. I wasn’t aiming that as a dig at rhc, my point is that historically random rhc chips that aren’t part of a set are typically priced lower.

Rhc chips are far more available than thc, because many more casinos use them. That makes the price of rhc chips lower.

I’ve owned many rhc sets and enjoy them. I just don’t like paying $200+ for any rack of chips. It’s mental regardless of the mold. Unfortunately that’s the state of chipping right now.

 

[Highli99]

I’m sorry if you though that comment was meant to be offensive, i didn’t intend it that way. I wasn’t aiming that as a dig at rhc, my point is that historically random rhc chips that aren’t part of a set are typically priced lower.

Rhc chips are far more available than thc, because many more casinos use them. That makes the price of rhc chips lower.

I’ve owned many rhc sets and enjoy them. I just don’t like paying $200+ for any rack of chips. It’s mental regardless of the mold. Unfortunately that’s the state of chipping right now.

No offence taken. Your point is valid I was just illustrating my own logic for paying the prices you correctly point out are high. And I am not only new person here doing this. It benits long time chippers.

 

[Perthmike]

No offence taken. Your point is valid I was just illustrating my own logic for paying the prices you correctly point out are high. And I am not only new person here doing this. It benits long time chippers.

You and me both. I’ve overpaid many times.

 

[glom]

You know, I have to disagree with these arguments. And again, I was not an original GB participant.

IMO, since the GB, less than 20% -- way less -- of those GB chips have been sold to non-GB participants. Many, if not most of the transactions have been between GB buyers, as they sorted out their holdings, and balanced their holdings among earlier and later GB buys.

As to the loss of value of non-GB chips, I will make the claim here that it's pretty likely that no one has spent more money than I have on non-GB chips in the past five years, and I don't perceive any loss in the value of my holdings.

If you've been buying a ton of heavily used chips from places that are not historic gambling centers, say suburban Washington or Ohio casinos, then it's inevitable that those chips are going to lose value as more chips surface from newly closed or re-branded casinos in locations with more historic connections. If you've been buying newer chips from anywhere, the market has overall been climbing steadily. Those Ohio casino large denom chips are looking pretty good right now at $20 apiece. :

If 20% of the chips are selling for 5x what they’ve cost (and I’ve seen them sell for much higher) than it’s possible many buyers could have bought more than they needed and then flipped 20% to get a huge free set at the expense of the community.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it, but I do see how some might be irritated.

 

[SixSpeedFury]

Man, look at all the feces flying around

 

[superchromix]

And to add, to complain about losing out on your "investment" in chips by having their value drop after the group buy chips showed up, cry me a river. Your "investment"??? So you were looking to buy the chips cheap and flip them for a profit? Sounds like you're being pretty hypocritical to me.

No, I don’t look at chips as an investment to make a profit from in any way. I’m using that term only to make a point about why so many people were offended to learn what GB members hid from the rest of the community for so long.

 

[superchromix]

Total bunk.

“Bunk”, says one of the people who publicly stated to a new member that it was “impossible” to buy new chips from GPI, while he was secretly buying new chips from GPI . Your public comments affected other people’s decisions, like it or not.

We also had a public discussion thread about starting a Paulson group buy, in which GB members posted implying that it wasn’t possible.

That, in a nutshell, is the point. I’ve got nothing against you and I understand the need for secrecy of the GB etc., but comments such as the ones referred to above did affect people outside of the GB, by providing misleading information.

 

[Anthony Martino]

If 20% of the chips are selling for 5x what they’ve cost (and I’ve seen them sell for much higher) than it’s possible many buyers could have bought more than they needed and then flipped 20% to get a huge free set at the expense of the community.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it, but I do see how some might be irritated.

I'm missing the part where the community is being forced to purchase the boat chips at all and/or pay the inflated prices

Everyone has a choice on how to spend their money

 

[BGinGA]

“Bunk”, says one of the people who publicly stated to a new member that it was “impossible” to buy new chips from GPI, while he was secretly buying new chips from GPI . Your public comments affected other people’s decisions, like it or not.

We also had a public discussion thread about starting a Paulson group buy, in which GB members posted implying that it wasn’t possible.

That, in a nutshell, is the point. I’ve got nothing against you and I understand the need for secrecy of the GB etc., but comments such as the ones referred to above did affect people outside of the GB, by providing misleading information.

Affect them and their decisions how, exactly? And if you plan to bring up the 'lowered value of other sets' BS again, either provide examples or don't bother.

The truth is, and has long been, that GPI doesn't sell to the general public, and a group buy for Paulson chips simply isn't possible. There was nothing misleading about it. If you think that they will, or that a group buy will work, then go for it and prove me wrong.

 

[BGinGA]

it’s possible many buyers could have bought more than they needed and then flipped 20% to get a huge free set at the expense of the community.

That's actually true for a LOT of different chips and chip sets in today's market. Very few of TCR's offerings were originally made available at anywhere near today's market prices, and most of the 'found' sets (at estate sales, garage sales, craigslist, letgo, even eBay occasionally) -- both older and more recent finds -- are typically resold with huge profit margins ...... and in all cases, to willing buyers who are happy to pay those prices.

In fact, ending up with nice chips 'for free' (or at the expense of others, as you put it) is often the primary goal or driver of people who buy chips purely for their resale value, and it happens a lot. Some folks villainize those chippers for that approach, others do not, but instead welcome the addition of more chips into the hands of chip enthusiasts.

Like it or not, ALL chips will eventually trade at prices that the buyers feel they are worth. It's just how the market works.

 

[Dr Newnham]

I'm missing the part where the community is being forced to purchase the boat chips at all and/or pay the inflated prices

Everyone has a choice on how to spend their money

Of course everyone would be forced to purchase the boat chips at inflated prices. For example, if multiple brand new desirable houses were build in your area and are now for sale, the current market price will automatically be imposed on these new houses straight away. The buyers dont exactly have a choice. The seller are able to set prices above the average easily due to how well designed and desirable those chips are. These chips may not have affected the price significantly, but contributes to the slowing of the chipping economy. This doesnt bother me, just stating what i observed.

 

[Dr Newnham]

Affect them and their decisions how, exactly? And if you plan to bring up the 'lowered value of other sets' BS again, either provide examples or don't bother.

The truth is, and has long been, that GPI doesn't sell to the general public, and a group buy for Paulson chips simply isn't possible. There was nothing misleading about it. If you think that they will, or that a group buy will work, then go for it and prove me wrong.

I believe the more correct term is causing the market to become more stagnant rather than much reduction in value. However this was initially due to the massive influx of the horseshoe chip sale and chipvault sales. But the boat chips definitely caused further slowing of the market. E.g. Palais chips was sold for $5-7 per chips, after all these sales was reduced to around $3.5, the PCAs was highly sought after and was rising steadily over the past 2 years. eg. PCA $5 went from $3 to $4 each, however due to the massive influx, value remained at $4 each still. I believe without the extra chips into the market the PCA would've fetch $4.5 to $5 each by now. So to say that it has no effect is quite unfair.

 

[pltrgyst]

If 20% of the chips are selling for 5x what they’ve cost (and I’ve seen them sell for much higher)....

You have? In quantity? Chips that cost between $1.25 and $3 apiece selling for "much higher" than $6.25 to $18 apiece?

Wow -- I've missed that.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You have? In quantity? Chips that cost between $1.25 and $3 apiece selling for "much higher" than $6.25 to $18 apiece?

Wow -- I've missed that.

I think he was talking face value. ES $1s run $5 a chip (5x the cost they would be on the boat) and fracs are selling for much more than the 5x face value. :coffee:

 

[pltrgyst]

I think he was talking face value. ES $1s run $5 a chip (5x the cost they would be on the boat) and fracs are selling for much more than the 5x face value. :coffee:

But that's not a useful metric -- I was paying $2-3 apiece for Greektown quarters five+ years ago.

 

[glom]

You have? In quantity? Chips that cost between $1.25 and $3 apiece selling for "much higher" than $6.25 to $18 apiece?

Wow -- I've missed that.

I know how much paulson chips cost, and they do not cost $3 each. I have seen an invoice from a recent purchase from a friend that runs a card room. I have seen chips go for $8-$12 each in rack quantities, and $5 in set quantities. These are over 5x the price of paulsons from paulson. I think a better range for a new paulson chip is .95 - 1.60.

 

[pltrgyst]

I know how much paulson chips cost, and they do not cost $3 each...

FYI, not all of the boat chips are Paulsons.

 

[glom]

FYI, not all of the boat chips are Paulsons.

The paulsons are the only ones I've seen sell for high prices.