When did this community become so ??? (1 Viewer)

stocky

stocky

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When I went on a sabbatical from this community it was actually upsetting. This community used to be so committed to the hobby and each other. We had each other’s backs. We shared each other’s highs and lows. We cared about the hobby and all the people in it.

Yes we had disagreements. We had arguments. But at the end of the day we had the same passion.

I left for my own reasons. I needed to refocus some things in life. But I always felt like this was a home I could always return too. But now I feel like a stranger looking in. Maybe I’ve changed, but this no longer feels like a home. It feels like a primary school, filled with playground bickering and arguments.

Who now gets to decide what is right or ethical? Practice what you preach. Why is one action condoned or ignored for some but for others condemned and vilified. Why do we attack someone for selling chips how they see fit? What happened to members selling what they want to who they want for any amount they want. Why is someone called out for being unethical for selling to a pm? When did the “dibs” become some golden phrase that gave you any right to a purchase. When did someone ending an auction at the time they stated become a reason for pitchforks?

Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’ve outgrown this community. But it never seemed this bad.

I feel sorry for anyone new to the hobby reading the crap that goes on now days. How are they supposed to feel welcome here? How can the feel confident about buying something without backlash. Or make their first sale without fear of being called out for not pleasing someone.

Or yeah, maybe it’s just me.
 
I agree with what you're saying, @stocky ... I know a lot of people might point to the Boat Chips purchase and the subsequent split of the community/creation of CD, but it was becoming noticeable during the last couple of Chip Room sales.

I mean, let's face it: when the community's behavior all but drives a vendor from here to eBay, it's a clear sign there's something going on.
 
I don't see the current chipping community or environment as much different than it ever has been.

There has always been chip drama; there will always be chip drama. Can't have this large of a group of diverse (and often outspoken) individuals without it. We may share a common interest, but we aren't all mindless sheep following a common shepherd. :)

Lots of new faces over recent years, which is a very good thing overall imo. But it does change the group dynamics to some degree, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. There is still a large sense of community spirit here -- and I think one gets out of it what one puts into it.
 
There are some negative aspects, and I think mostly that’s a byproduct of the crazy prices chips sell for these days.

Despite that, I love it here and regularly have fantastic interactions with many people.
In addition many people have gone out of their way to help me out.

Just as an example
@detroitdad received and shipped my cpcs for me, plus is just a great guy in general.
@MatB drove and picked up some craigslist chips for me and shipped them and refused to take any of them for himself. Crazy generous guy.
@mike32 went out of his way to pick up a bottle of bourbon for me so that I could give it to bill.
@liftapint gave me some free trk samples, helped me get my boat chips and has generally helped me out with great advice and tips a tonne of times.
@Seeking Alpha Social Club chucked in a free dealer button when I bought a set from him
@Tommy chucked in some extra freebies when I bought some samples recently.
@Nex was super helpful with my cpc design and let me bounce some ideas off him.
@p5woody put up with my shit when I bugged him incessantly with my inlay and felt design and smashed it with his designs.

I also got heaps of input from this forum on my custom design, which made my set so much better.

People are currently helping me out with suggestions for my Vegas trip as well.

I’ve had various other excellent interactions, so apologies if I missed anyone else that helped me out.

Don’t sweat the annoying stuff, there’s plenty of reasons to be on this place.
 
I have realized the same as OP, even though I'm not yet here for too long. Subjectively it does indeed feel like there's more fights, a harsher tone, more scamming (or close to it) now vs. when I registered.
Sure, maybe I have merely been oblivious to that in my first months/year or so, but I'd estimate the chances for that are somewhat low.

That being said, I have seen much worse already. The average age at the places I am referring to was probably lower, but since biological age != mental age, that doesn't (fully) explain it.
 
I do not think that this community is any different than it ever has been. There are many new members Which means there are many more personalities that come together in one place. As I have said before This forum, nor any other forum does not define the community. This community, and what you get out of it, is defined by each Individual person.

One person may think that member X is upstanding community member. While another member may find that member X is a total asshat. I think this community in any other community is a mirror of today’s society. What happened to the time when people could disagree on certain subjects and still remain friends. This is not the case on the Internet or In every day life.

I personally have found that there are many great people in this form and in this community. I have received calls, letters, PMs and have been honored by the generosity of numerous members of this community, too many to list in this thread. Much of this came during one of the darkest periods of my life. I’m a pretty strong person, but these people help me through this time in my life. For that I will always remember those individuals and will be there for them just the same if ever needed from me.

I don’t think that one event or any individual has caused a change in our community. I think just as in the world today that we live in there are many opinions and views that do not match. This is not something that one person or forum or the Internet will change. I think it is each of our responsibility to contribute and get out what you want from this community.

In closing, it is each of our responsibility to make this place, this world, a better place. If we keep talking bad about certain subjects I think we only add to the madness.

I have so much more to say on this discussion but I am traveling and will gather more thoughts and possibly share more later

God bless and keep on chipping.
David O
 
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David O said:
I do not think that this community is any different than it ever has been. There are many new members Which means there are many more personalities that come together in one place. As I have said before This forum, nor any other forum does not define the community. This community, and what you get out of it, is defined by each Individual person.

One person may think that member ex is upstanding community member. While another member may find that member X is a total asshat. I think this community in any other community is a mirror of today’s society. What happened to the time when people could disagree on certain subjects and still remain friends. This is not the case on the Internet or In every day life.

I personally have found that there are many great people in this form and in this community. I have received calls, letters, PMs and have been honored by the generosity of numerous members of this community, too many to list in this thread. Much of this came during one of the darkest periods of my life. I’m a pretty strong person, but these people help me through this time in my life. For that I will always remember those individuals and will be there for them just the same if ever needed from me.

I don’t think that one event or any individual has caused a change in our community. I think just as in the world today that we live in there are many opinions and views that do not match. This is not something that one person or forum or the Internet will change. I think it is each of our responsibility to contribute and get out what you want from this community.

In closing, it is each of our responsibility to make this place, this world, a better place. If we keep talking bad about certain subjects I think we only add to the madness.

I have so much more to say on this discussion but I am traveling and will gather more thoughts and possibly share more later

God bless and keep on chipping.
David O
Click to expand...

Well said sir. As always, you seem to have a wise way of looking at things and I appreciate that in your posts.

It seems we as a society in general have forgotten the golden rule (which also shows up on forums eventually). How different could our world be if we just followed that one basic rule?
 
@stocky, I'll back you up 100%. This doesn't feel like the same place at all anymore. I've only posted once a month recently. I'll grant that there are specific things that dampen the enthusiasm in my case (having all the sets I really want, being priced out of the current chip market, the increased difficulty of hosting live games, Sal's passing putting an end to my design collaboration), but the general feel and attitude around here isn't what it was.

I don't put any fault on specific people or groups, but "when" things changed is pretty clear to me: the fallout of the Star chips situation. Long time members with very bad blood between them, a new forum starting up out of protest, and just a general undercurrent of mistrust.

There are still plenty of great members here, but the idea that the feel of the community (through online interaction) is the same doesn't ring true for me at all.

I hope your refocusing has gone well so far. You were and are one of the great positive contributors here.
 
stocky said:
Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’ve outgrown this community.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's either. I don't know how it is in your part of the world, but here there is a new found fire in social media, and this is just part of that. I see it daily here, on Facebook, Reddit, what ever. Someone posts something and everyone jumps in with very passionate (and often times wrong) fired up comments. It's what happened in the recent threads I imagine you are referring to - and shit, you even see it quite blatantly in our politics. Meh - just don't feed the trolls. Like @k9dr said - the meet ups are amazing, I look forward to my 2 a year more than Christmas.
 
atomiktoaster said:
@stocky This doesn't feel like the same place at all anymore. I've only posted once a month recently.
Click to expand...

To me, this is the crux of the issue. You get out of a community what you put into it. Only posting once a month it is difficult to expect that you would get much out of the community. You need to interact and develop relationships.

Many people choose to just read and not post which is OK, but that becomes an issue if everyone does it.
 
I have 2 great players from that play regularly in my home game now. I met both on PCF first, and in real life later.

One of them recently had a great trip to Vegas set up, thanks to another member. Pics of the trip were posted here. It was mind-blowing.

I talk with Detroit Dad, 300+ miles away via text messages so often Mrs Zombie jokes about him being "someone on the side".

I can't think of a single person I've met at a meet-up that wasn't awesome. Two of them gave me a room for the night when I was in their town. I'll be travelling again soon to yet another PCFer's place. I've had a couple of PCFers stay in my house for the night when in my town.

This community is great.

Unfortunately the world recently came out of a terrible financial crisis. Following a financial crisis, people look for a scapegoat. Opinions become polarized. Politicians become populist. The people become divided. This kind of division led to Hitler in the 1940s, blaming minority groups leading to murder/genocide. Luckily, we aren't to that point, but the Brits took up Brexit, the Americans elected Trump. Italians fielded non-politicians. I'm sure other countries have seen similar waves of dissent.

That dissent carries over into other aspects of our lives. It's like the world has gone on collective tilt. Social media continues to fuel that tilt to the pint we can hardly escape it. We have shorter fuses now than we used to, and go off much quicker. PCF is not immune.

Give it time. Like BG points out, there was always drama. ChipTalk was loaded with it. ChipDonkeys had carryover drama from the boat crisis. The vast majority of each site was still civil, helpful and friendly.

Heck, even look at what many will point to: the Boat Chips. One person managed to get custom, mint - not minty, mint chips from Paulson, and he let a handful of others get some as well. That's not a reason for argument, it's a cause for celebration. People entrusted hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone they never met, and pulled off the greatest chip buy in the history of the hobby! It's just unfortunate that it caused a rift between those that scored chips and those that wished they could have scored chips. With shorter fuses, everyone was on tilt within minutes. Sides were picked in a battle that should have been seen for what it was - a coup for mint chips, that could only be surpassed with a time machine and access to the TRK factory.

...and mark my words, if you had a time machine and access to 100,000 custom mint TRKs, someone here would be angry that they didn't get a chance to buy some too.
 
In my humble opinion, there is certainly an ebb and flow to PCF, but it is a function of the demographics and personalities of the members who comprise this hobby.

Demographically speaking, chip collecting requires discretionary income, even more so than many other hobbies, and it naturally attracts certain types of people. Though not necessarily applicable to the entire population here, we’ve learned in the past that we have a lot of high earners - plenty of educated individuals who are doctors, lawyers, business leaders/owners, etc. These type of folks are not used to being told what to think or feel and do not silence themselves when something occurs that is contrary to their beliefs or values.

A few examples of demographics affecting involvement:
  • “If I can afford it…” - Unplanned medical/house/family/car expenses cause these chippers to sell the most liquid, non-essential items they have. In this case, it is chips. Maybe they will hang around and maybe they won’t. Maybe they will piss people off and maybe they don’t. Either way, they typically return at some point.
  • Profiteers - These folks aren’t really about the community, rather the acquisition and sale of chips. 90% of their posts will be in the classifieds. When the market is hot, you will see them, but they are generally silent otherwise. They are not bad members, often with high trade ratings and great feedback, but their contribution towards building community is minimal.
From a personality perspective, levels of engagement can be strongly impacted. Some examples are:
  • “Fuck this shit…” - Chippers who are disgruntled for one reason or another. The primary reason changes from year to year, but they are usually driven away for a while. Eventually, they will return because of their love of chips. However, in some cases, they are too hurt to resume full participation, and this is a loss to the community
  • “I’m a liberal/conservative/whatever and you’re an idiot” - These folks let politics add division to the community. This is a periodic issue mainly surrounding presidential elections and major social issues. When seas are calm, we are all a happy family, but when they are on their kick, things get contentious. This was the primary driver of a private politics sub-forum.
And then there are the fixtures of the community (here’s a handful of the many types):
  • Contrarian - Doesn’t matter what you say, they will refute it anyway
  • Grump - Old men yelling at clouds. Things were so much better 15 years ago when chips were cheap, Paulson was selling to the home market, and TRK was still around.
  • Quiet experts - They have 50 posts across 15 years of chipping, but it is always quality. Only very seasoned members know these folks.
  • Outspoken experts - They know everything and let you know on an hourly basis
  • Respected chippers - They may take breaks, but they are generally present and most of what they say is wise and relevant
  • Nice guys - Kind and generous to a fault. Almost makes you think they are hiding some deep dark shit.
  • “Wait, you own chips?” - You’ve never actually seen them buy anything, but they do contribute
  • “Can’t let it go” - They hold grudges and always seem to bring it up to stir the pot
  • Vain chippers - Nope, I wasn’t referring specifically to you in the bullets above. Move on.
  • @detroitdad - Requires his own grouping.

    TL;DR - Chippers are weird people and pop in and out for various reasons. This is cyclical and no reason to be alarmed IMO
 
Maybe I just have a false sense of what it was once like.

Obviously I haven’t/don’t post anywhere near what I used too. Mostly because like I said to me this place feels different, almost like people are on edge just to snap at someone.

Of course there are really great people here. I could spend all night listing them. But that’s not exactly my point. As a few have posted also they have similar feelings to mine.

Yeah, I can see where the pressure builds up massively, after 3+ years of membership and all of 15 previous posts. All that accumulated wisdom from sitting alone on a mountaintop in Sydney, shuffling dice chips -- it was bound to get to you. Maybe you should take a break.
Click to expand...

From a longtime respected member. Just one example of someone posting an opinion and getting blasted. Since when has there been a minimum post requirement to have an opinion? This was one of the first posts I saw when lurking back into the community. And more like it since. But this one still sticks in my mind especially with a lot of the latest comments towards people.

Like I said. Maybe it is me. Maybe I see the bad more than the good.
 
I’m new here so don’t have any history to compare. The boat chip thing sounds like a cool story I look forward to learning more about it over a beer at a meetup sometime.

I’m a also a member of a firearms related forum and the funny thing is these same conversations about “it’s not how it used to be” seen to crop up from time to time.

All any of us can do is control how we act and interact. It only takes one to start a virtuous cycle. Be the forum you want and that’s what you’ll have.

From what I’ve experienced, this is a great place and I’m enjoying the site very much. Everyone I’ve interacted with has been awesome. It’s fun interacting with others that share a passion for collecting awesome chips and hosting well run home poker games with good friends.

The poker world would be a lot crappier without folks like us keeping games running with quality chips, cards, tables, and blind structures.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
There are lots of great people here helping each other and supporting many great causes. There will be fights, it happens in every family!

Here is an example of some of the great stuff that happens here. @detroitdad got the ball rolling and it just growing.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/charity-auction.32388/
Click to expand...

I’m not denying there are good people doing good things for each other here.

It just feels like the negativity it’s starting to catch up to the positive.
 
Poker Zombie said:
One person managed to get custom, mint - not minty, mint chips from Paulson, and he let a handful of others get some as well. That's not a reason for argument, it's a cause for celebration. People entrusted hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone they never met, and pulled off the greatest chip buy in the history of the hobby!
Click to expand...

This is not the point. New members were blatantly lied to during the whole time the boat chip group buy was going on. People who spent fortunes on used chips lost money because of those lies, while some people inside the group buy made fortunes reselling chips.

It wasn't a matter of jealousy. It was a matter of broken trust. Group buy members are often blind to that point.
 
David O said:
I I think this community is a mirror of today’s society. What happened to the time when people could disagree on certain subjects and still remain friends. This is not the case on the Internet or In every day life.
David O
Click to expand...

People do seem to be on edge. One wrong move and someone will come out of the woodwork to burn you at the stake. This is a mirroring of what we see in the media. Every week there is a new story about someone who said or did something wrong and that person is to be crucified. There is no longer any discussion or compassion. Why bother hearing both sides of the story? Let's just stone them and move on to the next victim.

No doubt there is nice and generous people but there are also people looking for any opportunity to call someone else out so they get a little boost to their ego. " I am not a bad person like Mr x over there"...

I don't believe in karma in a cosmic sense but ultimately I agree with DavidO. All we can do is our part to be nice, reasonable, and generous.

PS. I also want to add that I think disagreements are a good thing. There will always be disagreements. The alternative to fighting is pretending like everything is fine and whitewashing every situation. Encouraging a false veneer of "everything is fine" doesn't help anyone (except probably make the mods life easier).
 
superchromix said:
This is not the point. New members were blatantly lied to during the whole time the boat chip group buy was going on. People who spent fortunes on used chips lost money because of those lies, while some people inside the group buy made fortunes reselling chips.

It wasn't a matter of jealousy. It was a matter of broken trust. Group buy members are often blind to that point.
Click to expand...
Here we go again. Nobody lied, and nobody lost a fortune on used chips due to anything. Utter bullshit.
 
BGinGA said:
Here we go again. Nobody lied, and nobody lost a fortune on used chips due to anything. Utter bullshit.
Click to expand...

keeping with the spirit of what OP is talking about...the boat chips did create a rift in the community and a break of trust. Regardless of what side of the argument one is on this is just a fact of what happened.

I do think that the effects of that are still felt to this day with some people being less nice and a bit more selfish/toxic. I am not taking sides but just observing what I see as the fallout from that situation.
 

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