PAHWM - AK oop (1 Viewer)

[Eriks]

Here’s another one also from yesterday’s homegame. Earlier in the evening and we’re 8-handed.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Lots of loose play. Pots are usually opened, sometimes 3-bet. Straddles are banned but blind raises to 20-30 are not uncommon.

Villain in this hand is UTG+1. The most experienced player at the table. Plays a lot of live games and goes to Vegas 2-3 weeks twice a year (pre-covid). Plays solid overall. Is having a bad night tonight though and can’t get nothing going. The few bigger hands he has played, he lost. Getting increasingly grumpy

Effective stacks are around 2k

Hero is UTG with



and opens to 20, villain calls and 2 more calls behind. Blinds fold.

Pot 90

Flop

Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Lead out for 30 to 40% pot

 

[Coyote]

Having been traumatised by online suckouts, I 'd say bet the pot, at least.
End that shit right now.
"Better to have 5 coins in hand than 10 coins promised"
"Who is after the many, loses even the few he has"
"The hunter who hunts two hares misses both"
(Free Greek proverbs)

 

[DrStrange]

Standard sized C-bet. This flop is dry It favors Hero's range. Multi-way, poor position and deep stacked doesn't favor Hero's "one pair" hand.

 

[Legend5555]

Lead out for 30 to 40% pot

Yep. Multiway... Super dry board... No need to make a large bet as any bet into 4 people is going to look like you have exactly what you have. But you can't just check and risk allowing 2-8 outers to just get there for nothing when you are going to be forced to call/bet down most run-outs.

 

[Eriks]

I won’t linger long on this street as I think the decision to bet is fairly trivial. I agree with most that betting on the smaller side on this dry board makes the most sense. Perhaps I could bet even smaller than I did?

Continuing:

Here’s another one also from yesterday’s homegame. Earlier in the evening and we’re 8-handed.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Lots of loose play. Pots are usually opened, sometimes 3-bet. Straddles are banned but blind raises to 20-30 are not uncommon.

Villain in this hand is UTG+1. The most experienced player at the table. Plays a lot of live games and goes to Vegas 2-3 weeks twice a year (pre-covid). Plays solid overall. Is having a bad night tonight though and can’t get nothing going. The few bigger hands he has played, he lost. Getting increasingly grumpy

Effective stacks are around 2k

Hero is UTG with



and opens to 20, villain calls and 2 more calls behind. Blinds fold.

Pot 90

Flop

Hero bets 40

Villain makes it 200 and it folds back to hero.

Hero?

 

[Legend5555]

I won’t linger long on this street as I think the decision to bet is fairly trivial. I agree with most that betting on the smaller side on this dry board makes the most sense. Perhaps I could bet even smaller than I did?

Continuing:

Here’s another one also from yesterday’s homegame. Earlier in the evening and we’re 8-handed.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Lots of loose play. Pots are usually opened, sometimes 3-bet. Straddles are banned but blind raises to 20-30 are not uncommon.

Villain in this hand is UTG+1. The most experienced player at the table. Plays a lot of live games and goes to Vegas 2-3 weeks twice a year (pre-covid). Plays solid overall. Is having a bad night tonight though and can’t get nothing going. The few bigger hands he has played, he lost. Getting increasingly grumpy

Effective stacks are around 2k

Hero is UTG with



and opens to 20, villain calls and 2 more calls behind. Blinds fold.

Pot 90

Flop

Hero bets 40

Villain makes it 200 and it folds back to hero.

Hero?

Can't fold. A good villain really shouldn't be raising too many hands here. The obvious raises are 33, 44, 56s. He shouldn't be raising any Kx as your bet was big enough that he doesn't need to. Some other bluffs could be A2 and A5 of spades, clubs, or diamonds. No matter what, going to be a gross spot. But as long as villain is capable of bluffing, we are going to be calling flop and most turns.

 

[JMC9389]

I see where this is going. I call and see what develops.

 

[Eriks]

Can't fold. A good villain really shouldn't be raising too many hands here. The obvious raises are 33, 44, 56s. He shouldn't be raising any Kx as your bet was big enough that he doesn't need to. Some other bluffs could be A2 and A5 of spades, clubs, or diamonds. No matter what, going to be a gross spot. But as long as villain is capable of bluffing, we are going to be calling flop and most turns.

I agree, and I was surprised by the raise.

 

[Frogzilla]

Don’t see any other option but call…this could get tough

Maybe even randomize at this stack depth…75% call 25% fold, you don’t have good suits.

 

[Eriks]

Don’t see any other option but call…this could get tough

Maybe even randomize at this stack depth…75% call 25% fold, you don’t have good suits.

Tbh I’m not completely sure about the suits. I remember being off suit and that the flop was rainbow

 

[Coyote]

Tbh I’m not completely sure about the suits. I remember being off suit and that the flop was rainbow

That's an ill omen

 

[DrStrange]

This situation is very villain dependent. So, this guy is "grumpy"? Does that mean he gets wild and crazy? Does he trend towards fit / fold? Is he impatient? Can villain be betting "once and done" or is this the start of a rain of bets each street?

Let's consider Hero's plan for the hand. As noted, hero's hand range is pretty limited on this flop. Top pair / under-pair / rare top set and air. Is Hero stacking off 400bb on top pair / top kicker? If not, how many bets will Hero call before bailing on the hand?

I note villain's raise happens with two extra villains et to act. Make of that what you will.

This is a way ahead / way behind situation. If hero needs outs, he doesn't have many. God help us if villain has a set.

I lean fold. Yes, it is exploitable. ( though not so easily as Hero could have been c-betting on ace high or pocket tens just as well as top pair / top kicker) And a villain read could make all the difference.

Call me chicken, Cluck - cluck -=- DrStrange

 

[Eriks]

I was tempted to fold as per the good doctor’s argument. It is a weird raise (whatever he holds) but it is a raise into an UTG opener’s cbet with two more people behind left to act. I haven’t played with him enough to say whether ”grumpy” means that he will start swinging to make stuff happen, but show me a player that is immune to tilting…

I did however feel like I can’t fold just yet, but definitely proceeding with caution. I have one of the better hands I’ll have in this spot.

Continuing:


Here’s another one also from yesterday’s homegame. Earlier in the evening and we’re 8-handed.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Lots of loose play. Pots are usually opened, sometimes 3-bet. Straddles are banned but blind raises to 20-30 are not uncommon.

Villain in this hand is UTG+1. The most experienced player at the table. Plays a lot of live games and goes to Vegas 2-3 weeks twice a year (pre-covid). Plays solid overall. Is having a bad night tonight though and can’t get nothing going. The few bigger hands he has played, he lost. Getting increasingly grumpy

Effective stacks are around 2k

Hero is UTG with



and opens to 20, villain calls and 2 more calls behind. Blinds fold.

Pot 90

Flop

Hero bets 40

Villain makes it 200 and it folds back to hero.

Hero calls the 200.

Pot 490

Board

Hero?

 

[Legend5555]

Check in flow.

Depending on bet size, call or make a tight fold. Even though the Q doesn't really change anything, it does give villain 2 pair in some weird circumstances where he decided to raise KQ on the flop. Though that should be very rare. But anything half pot or under, maybe even 66%, we are pretty much going to have to call. We can't just go folding AK in this spot too often to decent players.

 

[Eriks]

Continuing:

Here’s another one also from yesterday’s homegame. Earlier in the evening and we’re 8-handed.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Lots of loose play. Pots are usually opened, sometimes 3-bet. Straddles are banned but blind raises to 20-30 are not uncommon.

Villain in this hand is UTG+1. The most experienced player at the table. Plays a lot of live games and goes to Vegas 2-3 weeks twice a year (pre-covid). Plays solid overall. Is having a bad night tonight though and can’t get nothing going. The few bigger hands he has played, he lost. Getting increasingly grumpy

Effective stacks are around 2k

Hero is UTG with



and opens to 20, villain calls and 2 more calls behind. Blinds fold.

Pot 90

Flop

Hero bets 40

Villain makes it 200 and it folds back to hero.

Hero calls the 200.

Pot 490

Board

Hero checks and villain surprisingly checks behind.

Pot 490

Board

Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Check call. Way behind or way ahead here like the good doctor said.

 

[warma]

gets there, but would Villain make that flop bet? Or was that 200 bet trying to get any other to fold. So then what gives them enough to make a 200 bet yet check behind on the turn?

?
?

How are you feeling?

Lead and rep ?
Check/fold?
Check/pray?

 

[Legend5555]

After the check back on turn, I just can't see folding to most bet sizes. If he has the gutter ball draws that got there, so be it. But any real value hands like a set or the unlikely KQ just aren't going to be checking back turn this deep. Betting has little value though unless you think there are a lot of Kx in his range, which a decent player shouldn't really have much of.

Check/call unless he mega bombs it. I can't see folding to anything up to 1.5x pot.

 

[MrCatPants]

Imagining we're seeing 65 of diamonds or clubs here. Not much else makes a ton of sense.

Way ahead or way behind as others have mentioned. Keep their bluffs in and check. Calling everything reasonable.

 

[Eriks]

Unfortunately, the conclusion is a bit boring. I thought for a bit about betting but ended up checking with the intention of calling most bets. He snap checked behind which obviously meant I was good. Didn’t get to see his hand.

I wanted to see if anyone saw any value in a riverbet because I felt kinda nitty at the time. But perhaps there just wasn’t that much to get value from. He shouldn’t have Kx with the flop raise and the straight draws either got there or made a small pair.

 

[upNdown]

Unfortunately, the conclusion is a bit boring. I thought for a bit about betting but ended up checking with the intention of calling most bets. He snap checked behind which obviously meant I was good. Didn’t get to see his hand.

I wanted to see if anyone saw any value in a riverbet because I felt kinda nitty at the time. But perhaps there just wasn’t that much to get value from. He shouldn’t have Kx with the flop raise and the straight draws either got there or made a small pair.

Yes. I think the fact that he checked back on the turn suggests you’re ahead and you should be value betting? But:
1. I would have checked the river too, and
2. He would have folded anyway, so shrug?

 

[Legend5555]

I would need some really good read to want to value bet here. The flop raise by him polarizes him really hard given the small amount of thick value he can have. I imagine you are supposed to just hang in and call down in theory given this fact.

But if this was the kind of player that "raises top pair to see where they are at," then a thin river value bet makes sense.

 

[upNdown]

Can't fold. A good villain really shouldn't be raising too many hands here. The obvious raises are 33, 44, 56s. He shouldn't be raising any Kx as your bet was big enough that he doesn't need to. Some other bluffs could be A2 and A5 of spades, clubs, or diamonds. No matter what, going to be a gross spot. But as long as villain is capable of bluffing, we are going to be calling flop and most turns.

Maybe we’re just playing at different levels of poker, but at the low stakes I play, I don’t ever see people (not even multi-way) flopping a set and then re-raising 5x which is a 1.5 over bet to the pot.

 

[Legend5555]

Maybe we’re just playing at different levels of poker, but at the low stakes I play, I don’t ever see people (not even multi-way) flopping a set and then re-raising 5x which is a 1.5 over bet to the pot.

It's actually not even a pot sized raise. 90 + 40 + (40+160). Pot is 90+80, 170, 160 to call.

But regardless, I'm not sure I follow what your are saying. I'm saying even good players shouldn't be raising here very often because they have too narrow a value and bluffing range on this board. Raising a set here is bad because the flop is so dry that the hero's value range is pretty capped (AA, KK, AK, KQ, KJ, KT) AND hero can't have any draws that are going to continue to a raise. Because there are no draws a raiser can have here.

 

[Kentucky]

My first thought was bet 150-200 for thin value, but was persuaded out of it by the PFC hive mind.
My thinking was V calling into the flop could be a set mine play, but the 200 re-raise isn’t trying to mine with 33+, it’s trying to knock you off the pot on a dry board, perhaps with 88+, or some weaker broadway.

What does Villain put us on here? Do we play play pretty tight from UTG? TT+ and some suited broadway? Once we call the 200 we’re on KK+, Kx broadway and he’s done.

 

[Legend5555]

My first thought was bet 150-200 for thin value, but was persuaded out of it by the PFC hive mind.
My thinking was V calling into the flop could be a set mine play, but the 200 re-raise isn’t trying to mine with 33+, it’s trying to knock you off the pot on a dry board, perhaps with 88+, or some weaker broadway.

What does Villain put us on here? Do we play play pretty tight from UTG? TT+ and some suited broadway? Once we call the 200 we’re on KK+, Kx broadway and he’s done.

It seems very much like villain had 56 and decided to just give up on barreling when the Q came, though, I don't know why, and then checked back marginal showdown value that he didn't actually have in the river. On the turn Q, the only hand that has improved is KQ, and villain has no showdown value. If you are going to commit to the 56 bluff on the flop, I think you have to go all the way with it.

If villain raised any single pair hand on the flop, then it's just bad. Multiple people behind to act, and turning showdown value into a bluff against a raiser that is repping AK a lot given the action.

 

[grebe]

Unfortunately, the conclusion is a bit boring. I thought for a bit about betting but ended up checking with the intention of calling most bets. He snap checked behind which obviously meant I was good. Didn’t get to see his hand.

I wanted to see if anyone saw any value in a riverbet because I felt kinda nitty at the time. But perhaps there just wasn’t that much to get value from. He shouldn’t have Kx with the flop raise and the straight draws either got there or made a small pair.

Actually, I would have EXACTLY put him on a worse K when he checked back river. I think you missed value here on the river. As you stated on the flop analysis...the obvious raising hands (sets, flopped two pairs) are actually TOO obvious, and most would raise the turn when the pot is bigger. The scary Q on the turn....in the case if he had KQ, NO WAY a decent player checks this back. What does this leave besides a steamy attempt at a bluff? Kx. Which would call a small to medium bet.

IF he happens to raise, comfortably fold.

 

[upNdown]

But regardless, I'm not sure I follow what your are saying.

I was replying to your earlier post where you said the obvious raises were 33, 44, etc. When I see the guy reraise 200, I’m thinking it’s not a set.
It’s possibly two pair, or a semi bluff with A2 or 56, as you also suggested.
(But neither 2 pair nor 56 make much sense to me either - what’s the best guy at the table doing, flatting with those holdings at UTG1?)

 

[grebe]

Maybe we’re just playing at different levels of poker, but at the low stakes I play, I don’t ever see people (not even multi-way) flopping a set and then re-raising 5x which is a 1.5 over bet to the pot.

You should consider it. There is no cap on what you can bet relative to the pot, and if you KNOW you are going to get called, bigger is always better.