Cash Game Yet another AA hand... (2 Viewers)

[dkersey]

So I went to my local casino this afternoon after all the relatives left for Tgiving. I recently moved, and this casino is about 45 minutes, so I may make this a regular thing (Sunday afternoon/evening session). At any rate...

After being card dead most of the hour, I finally wake up with AA. I'm in late position. The maximum bet I had seen so far that gets callers is $12, so I bet $12. I also probably have a very tight table image, so anything more would give it away. I've raised several hands pre-flop between 7-12, so it shouldn't be seen as extraordinary. I get 3 callers.

Pot is ~$60. The flop is KQ5 rainbow. It is checked to me. I bet $30. The 1st caller raises to 60. The 2nd caller goes all in at $165! The 3rd caller folds, and its back to me. While I'm tanking, the 1st caller pushes the rest of the chips over the betting line. At this casino, anything over the line, can't be taken back. The dealer barks at the guy that its not his turn. He tries to pull the chips back, but the dealer barks at him again, to leave those chips right there. So I know he is calling.

WTF?!?!?! What would you do?

I'll share the rest of the hand after seeing your feedback.

 

[FDLmold]

We need stack sizes to give a good opinion.

 

[Mac128k]

Easy fold for me.

 

[dkersey]

1st caller was about 110, 2nd caller was about 170, 3rd caller was about 150, and I was about 190.

 

[upNdown]

Easy fold for me.

Why's that? You think somebody has KQ? I guess there's a bunch of ways you could have that. But I'd have a hard time giving up on aces on that board, without more information.

 

[upNdown]

1st caller was about 110, 2nd caller was about 170, 3rd caller was about 150, and I was about 190.

All in!

 

[Kyle]

Fold. KQ gets there.

 

[Mac128k]

Why's that? You think somebody has KQ? I guess there's a bunch of ways you could have that. But I'd have a hard time giving up on aces on that board, without more information.

KQ or a set. I often find that when I'm paired up, so is someone else. If I don't have the set with that kind of betting, they usually do.
But I never said I was good so YMMV

 

[FlushBlack]

my head says fold, but my heart just wants to hug n hold those bullets

 

[upNdown]

KQ or a set. I often find that when I'm paired up, so is someone else. If I don't have the set with that kind of betting, they usually do.
But I never said I was good so YMMV

Neither am I, but here we are. I'm not fearing a set very much because I'd expect a reraise if soembody had pocket kings or pocket queens. If they have pocket fives, god bless them and they're getting my chips, I guess.

 

[Mac128k]

Neither am I, but here we are. I'm not fearing a set very much because I'd expect a reraise if soembody had pocket kings or pocket queens. If they have pocket fives, god bless them and they're getting my chips, I guess.

Any two pair combo gets a $12 call, I think, and 55 wants that flop. Kings are less likely because I would have expected a raise pre-flop.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I'm not happy with the 12 raise, but a raise and reraise, I think you call, grumble, and hope your ahead. A few hands would make people do those all ins, only real worry is KQ and Pocket Fives.

 

[WedgeRock]

only real worry is KQ and Pocket Fives.

If either of them have a hand like JT, they should be leading out, not check raising.

I'm most concerned about second caller. First caller had $98 left and check raised to $60? He's gambling.

 

[dkersey]

The 1st caller who had initially raised to 60 (and then errantly showed me his intention to call) is a gambler. I'd seen him make some questionable calls, and make some great calls. His fluctuations had been wild in the 2 hours I'd seen him, including reaching in to his pocket for a reload when it didn't quite work out so well. Later he did leave with about with a rack of red $5s, so he was probably a little ahead by the end of the night.

However, the 2nd caller, who re-raised all-in was fairly new to the table. He had kept a low profile and I couldn't remember playing many hands. I didn't have any info on him.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Yeah, someone could be opened ended, I'm not overly worried if someone is tossing a pile of money on 6 outs... At least get it in ahead...

 

[v1pe]

If either of them have a hand like JT, they should be leading out, not check raising.

I'm most concerned about second caller. First caller had $98 left and check raised to $60? He's gambling.

I feel like so few players have a leading range here, and without any specific reads I rarely expect a low stakes player to be donk semibluffing their draws. X/R could definitely be something like JT though, IMO.

Definitely feels like one of these guys has a set or 2p to me. Maybe someone is getting out of line with AK but I could see QQ, 55, or KQ, maybe even K5s or Q5s. Hard to say what to do. Kind of leaning towards a fold unless we've seen these guys spaz before with TPTK type hand.

 

[WedgeRock]

Caller 1 could have JT (and assumed you were making a button play) or he could have a naked king. His line doesn't scream strength to me. But Caller 2 may already be there. How long did Caller 2 take to re-pop Caller 1's check-raise?

Facing a raise and a re-raise all in, a fold is definitely on my mind. Plus, with Caller 1 pushing his chips out of turn, you are going to get the info you want on the hand for the discounted price of $42. Then again, if you contemplated calling Caller 2's re-raise, Caller 1 just sweetened the pot by $38.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I feel like so few players have a leading range here, and without any specific reads I rarely expect a low stakes player to be donk semibluffing their draws. X/R could definitely be something like JT though, IMO.

Definitely feels like one of these guys has a set or 2p to me. Maybe someone is getting out of line with AK but I could see QQ, 55, or KQ, maybe even K5s or Q5s. Hard to say what to do. Kind of leaning towards a fold unless we've seen these guys spaz before with TPTK type hand.

QQ I would think would have reraised a 12 buck raise. KQ screams a call and hope to hit. Of course 55 for set mining, and if someone's calling a huge raise with K5, I'd love to play them. You'll eventually bust them for calling everything.

It'll be interesting to find out what occured.b

 

[WedgeRock]

I rarely expect a low stakes player to be donk semibluffing their draws.

The min-raise to $60 with only $98 in front of him makes he check-raise feel so weak.

 

[dkersey]

How long did Caller 2 take to re-pop Caller 1's check-raise?

Caller 2 only paused a second, then went all-in.

 

[DrStrange]

Villain reads would be handy. (I see it got added while I am writing.)

Hero's $12 plus three callers seems closer to $50 than $60. That might seem like nit picking and to an extent it is, but not totally. I'll use $60 in this post and balance that with using the posted stack sizes as post flop numbers

Hero has pocket aces with a small SPR (stack to pot ratio). Villain 1 ($110) has a SPR less than 2. Villain 2 ($170) has a SPR less than 3. Sure it is a multi way flop, but the board is on the dry side. My first impulse is that Hero is pot committed. For what it is worth that is also my final conclusion as well.

We should consider how things look from Villain's point of view. Hero's 1/2 pot c-bet could seem weak. Hero's table image seems weak. Villain 1 shouldn't just call - he is in fold or jam territory. Even villain 2 is roughly in the same spot - He can't just call $110 leaving $60 behind. I can imagine Villain 1 being on the desperate side with his shorter stack.

Hero has already put $30 in the pot, so he owes $80 more for the main pot and an additional $60 for the side pot. Hero is getting even money on the $120 side pot, but is risking $80 to win $390 in the main pot.

I can't help but notice no one has mentioned AK as a villain holding which could make all sorts of sense.

There are times when hero is crushed - say JT vs 55 vs AA - where hero is drawing almost dead needing runner-runner. But there are times where hero is way ahead - say AK vs JT vs AA or JT vs JT vs AA.

I can not find a fold. Hero is getting offered a sweet price for the main pot and a small side pot that could just as easily be going Hero's way rather than Villain's way.

Yes there will be variance. Hero might even lose more often than win. But winning the whole thing is worth $590 and hero only puts up $140 to take a swing.

Sign me up for this deal! -=- DrStrange

 

[upNdown]

The min-raise to $60 with only $98 in front of him makes he check-raise feel so weak.

I don't think we know it was a check raise. Not a lot of specific position information here.

 

[v1pe]

The min-raise to $60 with only $98 in front of him makes he check-raise feel so weak.

In my experience these guys (typical low stakes villain) aren't really aware of bet sizing. Sometimes a min-raise is even stronger than a typical 4-5x.

 

[v1pe]

I don't think we know it was a check raise. Not a lot of specific position information here.

Oh, I assumed it was a check raise as well.

 

[WedgeRock]

Sounds like he was planning the check-raise and was momentarily perplexed by Caller 1's min c-r.

With little information on Player 2 and a snug image (you and him), I fold.

 

[WedgeRock]

I don't think we know it was a check raise. Not a lot of specific position information here.

Fair point. I assumed "checked to me" meant all 3 checked, but you're right.

 

[upNdown]

Oh, I assumed it was a check raise as well.

Maybe you guys are right. But as far as I can tell, all we know for sure is hero is in late position.

 

[v1pe]

We are not looking great against what I would perceive both of V's ranges. I left off Q5o and K5o as potential combos, but I could see these players limp/calling with those holdings too if the "price was right", which would make our odds even worse.

Board: Ks Qh 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.613% 28.19% 00.42% 1344120 20095.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 35.694% 33.44% 02.25% 1594419 107393.50 { 55, AKs, AJs, KQs, K5s, Q5s, JTs, AKo, AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 35.694% 33.44% 02.25% 1594419 107393.50 { 55, AKs, AJs, KQs, K5s, Q5s, JTs, AKo, AJo, KQo }

 

[dkersey]

Let me clarify - after the flop, all 3 people checked, then I bet. Then C1 raised, then C2 re-raised (all-in), C3 folded.

 

[v1pe]

QQ I would think would have reraised a 12 buck raise. KQ screams a call and hope to hit. Of course 55 for set mining, and if someone's calling a huge raise with K5, I'd love to play them. You'll eventually bust them for calling everything.

It'll be interesting to find out what occured.b

QQ should certainly be an open or a 3bet out of the blinds, but there are definitely players out there who will limp/call with anything but AA/KK/AK pre-flop for fear or an overcard in the window. In the same vein K5s or Q5s are most certainly folds, but some players get extra attached to any combo of suited cards, especially in a multi-way limped pot. (I don't think we saw if there were or weren't any limps, but I assume there were given the stakes. EDIT: of course we have limpers, otherwise they can't call our preflop raise OOP, duh.)