detroitdad
Royal Flush
It may be outrageous, and I may be in the minority, but it's how I feel.
Why not ABC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter shorticus
- Start date
It may be outrageous, and I may be in the minority, but it's how I feel.
Matt Michaels
Pair
You might just wanna stop speaking. That probably for the best
For the record, I never made quality comparisons. Having not handled card mold chips, I cannot make a comparative statement like that. However, I would still encourage members to go to site vendors first, as I know they are of good quality, have good customer service, and they support this site. Their costs are not outrageously more expensive if you shop smart and don't purchase too much more than you need.
boltonguy
Flush
I can confirm based on personal experience that this price point does equal impulse buy.
Bluegrass Poker
Flush
Dude, if you don’t think you’ve been on the attack and judgmental in this thread I’d hate to see how you act when you are on the attack.
Uh, no one would mistake these for the original. These aren’t NY knock-offs. But yeah, my wife was proud of knowing where to go to get the good stuff in NYC and how to avoid the obvious knock-offs. So…
As for me? I’m proud of my cards mold chips. They are great chips. Plus, I got an experience. I’ve seen the future and jumped. I got to learn about, and buy from, Alibaba. I learned about the incredible growth of a major special economic zone that’s sourcing businesses across the globe and fueling the rise of an economic powerhouse.
I’m proud I made a smart economic decision, not splurging on something I may not keep & sticking with a chip design that others may purchase, in case I want to sell it some day.
I’m proud I got to hang with some good peeps, dabble in design, and help others.
I’m proud that I know pride is a sin, and I’m going to hell for all of it, too.
Venturalvn
Full House
Lol this thread is really off the rails. The original question - can ABC match pricing for China manufacturing? No. Why? The US has human rights.
Cards mold vs ABC blanks - different price points, different products. People arguing that cards mold are "just as good" as other ceramics are wrong. They are slippery, spinner pieces of shit that don't stack more than 25 high without being in danger of ending up on the floor. They cost 30 some odd cents, and I'll stop after I accumulate about 5,000 of them. They still have a place, and are fun and cheap to create. They are NOT, however, the same as quality ceramics from the likes of ABC/BR Pro.
Cards mold vs ABC blanks - different price points, different products. People arguing that cards mold are "just as good" as other ceramics are wrong. They are slippery, spinner pieces of shit that don't stack more than 25 high without being in danger of ending up on the floor. They cost 30 some odd cents, and I'll stop after I accumulate about 5,000 of them. They still have a place, and are fun and cheap to create. They are NOT, however, the same as quality ceramics from the likes of ABC/BR Pro.
Lolz.
Listen, I'm not going to trash the cards mold chips and who has them. They do have their use. That said, I take BRPRO 10/10 times, even at the higher price point.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
Venturalvn
Full House
As a good chipper I say - why not both? I have Paulsons, ASMs, CPCs, ABCs, ChipCos, Sun-Fly hybrids, and card molds. And faux clays. Like...we CAN have it all here.
Edit: and BCCs
tabletalker7
Full House
I got 2000 of those ICON ceramics from someone here (Kash Casino) and the price I paid vs. the quality of the chip makes them great for me.
Geremie
Full House
Sounds like you need some Abbiatis and Matsuis
Venturalvn
Full House
I draw the line there. If cards mold are slippery, Matsuis are oil itself.Sounds like you need some Abbiatis and Matsuis
ICON is a brand of TCS Huxley, no? I'm sure they subcontract. I wonder who makes it for them.
FWIW.....
I have owned or extensively used the original Chipco ceramics (both casino and fantasy sets), custom and stock chips produced by the original Nevada Jack's company, Palm Gaming ceramics on two different blanks, Game-On ceramics, several different variations of Sun-Fly ceramic products (including hybrids and molded ceramics), original BRPro Poker ceramics, ABC/BRPro ceramics on two different blanks, the recent Chinese-produced molded ceramics, and a couple of older really crappy low-end ceramics (Nile Club, Scrolls).
Excluding those last two, there is really no significant difference in chip quality or durability between the best-of-the-bunch and the worst-of-the-bunch -- although some do feature better print quality. Personal opinion about feel, sound, and edge treatment will vary, as those items are more subjective and difficult to measure or quantify.
It mostly all boils down to the finer details, aspects of convenience, timing, and service, and what you are willing to pay.
Some like original Chipcos. I don't; I could never get past the required white outer ring, some colors were notorious for print bleed, and I felt that for the high price they charged, there were other more attractive options.
Some like Nevada Jack's (original and ABC-produced versions). I don't; I dislike the rough finish and resulting loss of print quality, and personally find the design unappealing.
Palm Gaming (PGI) was a hit/miss crap-shoot on print quality but if done properly, they were excellent ccustom ceramics and very reasonably priced.
Game-On (GOCC) offered a great custom product at a premium price, but customer service and communication has vanished to the point that the company is no longer a viable or reliable resource.
ABC/BRPro offers a solid product for a competitive price for stock items, along with quick turn-around and great customer service, although customs/features can quickly escalate the cost.
Some like Sun-Fly ceramics. In general I don't; I dislike their signature glossy edge treatment, and I think other options offer better ceramic print quality. However their ceramic hybrid and molded ceramic products offer products not available elsewhere (until recently). I like the 43mm hybrids with small recess (although disliking the glossy label and glossy edges), and like their molded ceramics better than their standard blank products.
The molded ceramics from China have squarish and matte-finish edges, excellent color print quality, and prices that are one-half to one-third of other current custom ceramic options. Downsides are communication challenges, long start-to-finish times (for large orders), and either expensive or slow delivery options.
I think we are lucky to have three viable options for custom ceramics (and wish it were still four). Bottom line is buy what you like best for the reasons you find most appealing, and let others do the same without unnecessary judgment.
I have owned or extensively used the original Chipco ceramics (both casino and fantasy sets), custom and stock chips produced by the original Nevada Jack's company, Palm Gaming ceramics on two different blanks, Game-On ceramics, several different variations of Sun-Fly ceramic products (including hybrids and molded ceramics), original BRPro Poker ceramics, ABC/BRPro ceramics on two different blanks, the recent Chinese-produced molded ceramics, and a couple of older really crappy low-end ceramics (Nile Club, Scrolls).
Excluding those last two, there is really no significant difference in chip quality or durability between the best-of-the-bunch and the worst-of-the-bunch -- although some do feature better print quality. Personal opinion about feel, sound, and edge treatment will vary, as those items are more subjective and difficult to measure or quantify.
It mostly all boils down to the finer details, aspects of convenience, timing, and service, and what you are willing to pay.
Some like original Chipcos. I don't; I could never get past the required white outer ring, some colors were notorious for print bleed, and I felt that for the high price they charged, there were other more attractive options.
Some like Nevada Jack's (original and ABC-produced versions). I don't; I dislike the rough finish and resulting loss of print quality, and personally find the design unappealing.
Palm Gaming (PGI) was a hit/miss crap-shoot on print quality but if done properly, they were excellent ccustom ceramics and very reasonably priced.
Game-On (GOCC) offered a great custom product at a premium price, but customer service and communication has vanished to the point that the company is no longer a viable or reliable resource.
ABC/BRPro offers a solid product for a competitive price for stock items, along with quick turn-around and great customer service, although customs/features can quickly escalate the cost.
Some like Sun-Fly ceramics. In general I don't; I dislike their signature glossy edge treatment, and I think other options offer better ceramic print quality. However their ceramic hybrid and molded ceramic products offer products not available elsewhere (until recently). I like the 43mm hybrids with small recess (although disliking the glossy label and glossy edges), and like their molded ceramics better than their standard blank products.
The molded ceramics from China have squarish and matte-finish edges, excellent color print quality, and prices that are one-half to one-third of other current custom ceramic options. Downsides are communication challenges, long start-to-finish times (for large orders), and either expensive or slow delivery options.
I think we are lucky to have three viable options for custom ceramics (and wish it were still four). Bottom line is buy what you like best for the reasons you find most appealing, and let others do the same without unnecessary judgment.
Wow I had no idea you guys all buy only USA products/business. Can you send me links to your TV's/cell phones/ring doorbells/plates/dog toys/computers/shoes/lamps/hickie do's/hickie donts/chargers/remotes/sheets/shitter seat/water valve/your MIL bday gift/socks/rubber duckie/noise maker/apple garbage products/germX/the life saver miracle working blue masks/garbage cans/bags/tilapia/OTC meds to name just a few on my mind that I'd like to buy made in USA.
As far as the chips, I bought 2000, my budget got me 3 tables of cash games going at the same time with higher demons I'll probably never felt but have them incase @Windwalker plays heads up with himself at a meetup. I didn't and wouldn't even consider Gene. Nothing against them at all, but it's not in my budget. I got exactly what I wanted from an amazing designer on PCF for what most of us call a good deal and some of you call trash shit waste of money. That's fine, no hard feelings from me, I appreciate @Eloe2000 for all the hard work he did to provide me with a dream I'd never imagine I could own.
As far as the chips, I bought 2000, my budget got me 3 tables of cash games going at the same time with higher demons I'll probably never felt but have them incase @Windwalker plays heads up with himself at a meetup. I didn't and wouldn't even consider Gene. Nothing against them at all, but it's not in my budget. I got exactly what I wanted from an amazing designer on PCF for what most of us call a good deal and some of you call trash shit waste of money. That's fine, no hard feelings from me, I appreciate @Eloe2000 for all the hard work he did to provide me with a dream I'd never imagine I could own.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
And they came out beautifully. Let’s see some pics!
OP
OP
Please stream this game if it happens
LeLe
4 of a Kind
BRBRO are doing well with DUE TO OVERWHELMING DEMAND, ALL CHIP ORDERS WILL TAKE UP TO 2 WEEKS TO SHIP
highlighted when you are at their website, so I highly doubt they will reduce the pricing by much especially since Alibaba offer
them at 1/3 to 40% of the pricing.
highlighted when you are at their website, so I highly doubt they will reduce the pricing by much especially since Alibaba offer
them at 1/3 to 40% of the pricing.
This would be a game well worth watching. But will he value-own himself? That I've gotta see.
@toynoob : You win the internet today, IMO.
CrazyEddie
Full House
No further posts in this thread are necessary.
Bluegrass Poker
Flush
Always amazes me that so many people on this forum have no qualms about taking copyrighted IP and blatantly ripping it off for their own chips but many of those same people go off if someone dares do the same to a chip designed and made by one of our resident designers and/or members.
I don’t care too much one or the other except hypocrisy is one of my pet peeves. Just be consistent in your logic. If you have no issues with someone making ARIA knock offs with Tina then you have no grounds to get upset if someone decides to do a BTP or other NAGB or custom chip design. It’s the same thing.
This is a really interesting thread, just my thoughts on the issue.
I personally own a 1,200 set of Starlite replicas from Tina. They cost like 30c USD a chip. It wasn't edge aligned and I estimate some 10-20% of chips had that problem. But I'd just buy more and have enough "perfect" ones to pick from at these prices. I also own quite a few paulsons/cpcs, and yet for a fraction of the price Tina's chips still impressed me and a lot of my friends. I would recommend it to any new chipper who isn't willing to dip their toes into true clay chips 100% over the crappy china clay samples that I received.
So I think it is a net good to the community, that people can get reasonable priced chips that are a massive upgrade over what you can find at Amazon and enjoy the game and get into chipping.
Onto the issue of copyright and morality of Chinese manufacturers.
1. Morality:
If you are happy to use an iPhone, you should be happy to get cards molds from Tina. If you want everything American made I'd take a quick look around the house to quickly realise you are living a lie.
2. Copyrights:
Is it legal? Well seems like a grey area right now. If you were ordering fake Chanel bags from a Chinese manufacturer they'd probably get confiscated at customs. Seems like this isn't happening with Aria cards mold which probably means Aria themselves haven't lobbied hard enough to protect their "copyrights" on their chips. Or maybe they don't actually care. We don't know yet.
Within this grey area, if you are that concerned about copyrights, the onus is on you and your designs that you submit to Tina.
Finally, it is within everyone's right to purchase from whichever manufacturers make the most sense to them in terms of quality, price and whatever else matters to them especially if they aren't breaking any laws. I for one support any and all avenues where we can get high quality customs for a reasonable price.
Thanks all!
I personally own a 1,200 set of Starlite replicas from Tina. They cost like 30c USD a chip. It wasn't edge aligned and I estimate some 10-20% of chips had that problem. But I'd just buy more and have enough "perfect" ones to pick from at these prices. I also own quite a few paulsons/cpcs, and yet for a fraction of the price Tina's chips still impressed me and a lot of my friends. I would recommend it to any new chipper who isn't willing to dip their toes into true clay chips 100% over the crappy china clay samples that I received.
So I think it is a net good to the community, that people can get reasonable priced chips that are a massive upgrade over what you can find at Amazon and enjoy the game and get into chipping.
Onto the issue of copyright and morality of Chinese manufacturers.
1. Morality:
If you are happy to use an iPhone, you should be happy to get cards molds from Tina. If you want everything American made I'd take a quick look around the house to quickly realise you are living a lie.
2. Copyrights:
Is it legal? Well seems like a grey area right now. If you were ordering fake Chanel bags from a Chinese manufacturer they'd probably get confiscated at customs. Seems like this isn't happening with Aria cards mold which probably means Aria themselves haven't lobbied hard enough to protect their "copyrights" on their chips. Or maybe they don't actually care. We don't know yet.
Within this grey area, if you are that concerned about copyrights, the onus is on you and your designs that you submit to Tina.
Finally, it is within everyone's right to purchase from whichever manufacturers make the most sense to them in terms of quality, price and whatever else matters to them especially if they aren't breaking any laws. I for one support any and all avenues where we can get high quality customs for a reasonable price.
Thanks all!
Yes, the onus is on the designer to not copy other’s work.
But it is the manufacturer to do everything they can to not produce something in violation of copyright. They can’t be investigators, but when they learn of copyright infringement, they should chose to not produce.
But it is the manufacturer to do everything they can to not produce something in violation of copyright. They can’t be investigators, but when they learn of copyright infringement, they should chose to not produce.
Matt Michaels
Pair
Would the same go for every WSOP knockoffs chip out there that everyone makes?
A breach of copyright doesn’t distinguish between whether we like the infringing product or not.
That said, I’m less bothered by a chip that looks like an abandoned design from years ago, than I am by a knockoff of a current chip by a vendor here...
But yes, both those examples are infringement of copyright. Changes can be made to the design to get a similar result that doesn’t infringe, but many chose not to go that route.
That said, I’m less bothered by a chip that looks like an abandoned design from years ago, than I am by a knockoff of a current chip by a vendor here...
But yes, both those examples are infringement of copyright. Changes can be made to the design to get a similar result that doesn’t infringe, but many chose not to go that route.
I think we all suffer from a guilty conscious from time to time, whether it is running auctions in an effort to get the most outrageous price for chips, participating in NAGB's, excreta. Whenever that happens to me, I go chip harvesting. (Or fantasize about shooting the songbird killing feral cat across the street)
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