Why not ABC (1 Viewer)

[shorticus]

I’m just curious about this. Tina’s ceramics in China has been a huge success for a lot of us recently. Hell, I have 2 sets already and 2 incoming, and I’ve seen at least one of these orders top 32k which is insane!

Has anyone considered reaching out to @ABC Gifts and Awards to see if they would be willing to match the prices from Tina? Im just thinking that since they are a vendor on the site, it seems fair to at least give them an opportunity for business.

I’m sure I’m not the first person to think of this, and I’m sure someone already has the answer to this, but feel free to contribute to furthering my knowledge.

 

[Eloe2000]

BRPro is great. If I loved ceramics and wanted a premium set I would go to them. I use them for many other things and they are a great company with great service. But,

1. For edge aligned ceramics Tina’s chips are less than 1/3rd the price landed in the US. Price matching isn’t going to happen.

2. Whether people want to admit it or not, they are taking advantage of Tina’s lack of concern for copyright with replica chips being the most common orders. Many even being live casino chips.

FWIW I don’t love ceramics at all. But sub $0.35/ea is impulse buy territory for me and I think a lot of others. $300 for a 1,000 fully custom chipset is a sweet spot. I own thousands of cards mold from Tina but if they were .40 I would probably own none and wouldn’t think twice about it.

 

[allforcharity]

I would much rather support ABC/BR Pro than random Alibaba vendors because they are forum vendors and therefore supporters. It's not always about price.

 

[dennis63]

Remember that people in China refer to their work schedule as "996." It means 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week in order to make their very low pay. This is how those prices can be so low. The cost of labor, when there is a cost, is very, very low.

 

[Eloe2000]

And for that matter why does BRPro get all of the vendor love if we are having that conversation?! CPC does cards mold ceramics.

 

[MatthewTreeTree]

And for that matter why does BRPro get all of the vendor love if we are having that conversation?! CPC does cards mold ceramics.

Are these edge aligned at cost?

http://classicpokerchips.com/pokerchips/ceramicpokerchips.htm

EDIT: Nope one more step of reading still says 20c per

 

[detroitdad]

I'll preface this with "My opinion only". I hate the quality of the product from China. One of the reasons that they are so cheap is that they "feel" cheap. Comparing the two products is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different beasts.

I own over 2000 ABC chips and I have zero regrets.

FTR, I have played with the cards mold chips. I have a few samples. The feel cheap and they are to slippery for my tastes.

ABC or bust!

 

[MatthewTreeTree]

ABC or bust is right

 

[Eloe2000]

Remember that people in China refer to their work schedule as "996." It means 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week in order to make their very low pay. This is how those prices can be so low. The cost of labor, when there is a cost, is very, very low.

Out of curiosity, are the BRPro ceramic blanks definitively made in the US or are they made in China? I know CPC sells cards mold ceramics and without any other indication I would believe these are made in China.

 

[Eloe2000]

Are these edge aligned at cost?

http://classicpokerchips.com/pokerchips/ceramicpokerchips.htm

EDIT: Nope one more step of reading still says 20c per

I think BRPro charges around the same or maybe .25. So with CPC you are looking at 1.08 per chip vs .28 per chip with Tina. That is 400% more expensive. That is a nontrivial difference. And like I said before I just think this is impulse price territory for most people. They aren’t in the market for ceramics and then decide on Tina. They are just intrigued by the possibility of .28 custom chips. That’s the difference between $280 for a 1000 chip set vs $1,080. That is a big difference. That is a compatible price difference between China clays and CPC L1 custom inlaid American made clay chips. You usually don’t find people making a purchasing decision between those two things. The people who really want the best of the best ceramics go after BRPro as they should.

I buy American when its a smart decision and buy American cars. But these things aren’t really in the same ballpark.

 

[Highli99]

I buy American when its a smart decision and buy American cars.

I take it you never owned a 1992 green Ford Taurus wagon. That turd of a vehicle has made me a lifelong Toyota customer.

 

[Eloe2000]

I take it you never owned a 1992 green Ford Taurus wagon. That turd of a vehicle has made me a lifelong Toyota customer.

Haha, I had an electric blue escort wagon as a hand me down at some point and it was probably right around 92-95 yr. American cars have closed the gap in the last decade. The Korean cars are the ones surging now.

 

[upNdown]

2. Whether people want to admit it or not, they are taking advantage of Tina’s lack of concern for copyright with replica chips being the most common orders. Many even being live casino chips.

I'm surprised this doesn't get discussed more. Most days I comfortably ignore it, feeling like it's none of my business. But there are days where I feel guilty for not speaking out, as if silence equals approval.

 

[Lemonzest]

I would much rather support ABC/BR Pro than random Alibaba vendors because they are forum vendors and therefore supporters. It's not always about price.

This is especially true when it comes to luxury items such as custom poker chips. Its fine if we want to buy direct from China but then don't complain in 2-5 years when CPC and ABC are out of business. I certainly am not judging anyone it is just the realty.

Yeah, shopping on Amazon is cheap and efficient with items arriving on your door step. However, it is killing local small businesses every day.

There has to be more factored in than just price.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I agree and would rather support ABC. The matte rolling edge on Tinas chips is a huge selling point for me personally though. Not a fan of gloss edges.

 

[warma]

I ordered a massive Tina limit set for cheap. I have no idea if my group will ever want to actually play. So Tina provides a very cheap option for me- if my group loves limit, I’ll grab a real CPC/Matsui set. For others, it a cheap travel set or a way to get playing when even $1/chip is too much at the moment. All kinds of different customers and BRPro, CPC, and Tina each have their segment of the market.

 

[shorticus]

I’m just curious about this because I feel like if we are making 30K orders, I think we should at least reach out to ABC and show them what we have on the table. I agree that price matching may be reaching, but a simple, “hey, here’s what I have on the table, and being that you’re a vendor, we just wanted to reach out to you and see what you can offer us.” That’s by no means obligatory, but I think the offer to do business can go a long way.

For clarity, I’m not saying that choosing the China Cards mold is by any means wrong, I’m just saying that it wouldn’t hurt to show our vendors some love too if we could. Obviously, if they would come back with a number of like .60/.70 per chip, you’re not going to convince the people in the GB to switch, but depending on what they offer, some might be willing to eat the cost to support a PCF vendor.

 

[Lemonzest]

I’m just saying that it wouldn’t hurt to show our vendors some love too

Good intentions but not sure they will see it this way. It will be impossible for them to compete while making a profit. This is a problem across almost every industry. It is very difficult for local companies to compete with basement pricing offered from manufacturing in China.

 

[FDLmold]

To the best of my knowledge, ABC / brpro have plenty of work and thus no reason to change pricing. With the cheap China chips, there is also the cost that your artwork is going to get sold and used by their other customers.

I think it is cool to have a rack of chips in front of each of my players. The only way I am ever affording that is with these cards mold chips, and it’s the only reason I buy any.

 

[TheDuke]

This thread could really be about any Chinese made product vs an American made product.

Any labor intensive product is always going to be cheaper from a Chinese source. They don't give a shit about their citizens. They don't have the labor laws, environment protections, etc, etc, that any business in the US has to abide by. So they will always be a fraction of the cost of American made items.

Similar to @Eloe2000, if it wasn't for the ultra low price, I wouldn't have ordered a cards mold set and I otherwise wouldn't have ordered a custom ceramic set.

I think this discussion is also similar to the idea of supporting local business vs Amazon. I think the vast majority of people would publicly say they'd prefer to support their local businesses. But when it really comes down to action, the majority chooses Amazon and has that product delivered that afternoon or next day. That's why Bezos is a billionaire with space flight as a hobby.

 

[Venturalvn]

I'm surprised this doesn't get discussed more. Most days I comfortably ignore it, feeling like it's none of my business. But there are days where I feel guilty for not speaking out, as if silence equals approval.

I specifically won't post pictures of my set or respond about people asking who did the artwork, because I feel like I crossed the line and don't want to get the community in trouble. My set could absolutely be taken to the casino I replicated and fed into the system they're that close to the live chips, and I don't want to bring that into the community or get PCF in trouble.

I'm glad I had them made for myself and that they didn't bat an eye doing it, but as soon as I got them I thought "uh oh..."

 

[Highli99]

I specifically won't post pictures of my set or respond about people asking who did the artwork, because I feel like I crossed the line and don't want to get the community in trouble. My set could absolutely be taken to the casino I replicated and fed into the system they're that close to the live chips, and I don't want to bring that into the community or get PCF in trouble.

I'm glad I had them made for myself and that they didn't bat an eye doing it, but as soon as I got them I thought "uh oh..."

Only a matter of time before someone with less scruples does that. When that happens, all these card rooms and casinos using ceramics are going to be making switches assuming the hit doesn’t bust them straight out. There is a reason GPI does what it does.

 

[Venturalvn]

Only a matter of time before someone with less scruples does that. When that happens, all these card rooms and casinos using ceramics are going to be making switches assuming the hit doesn’t bust them straight out. There is a reason GPI does what it does.

It already happened with the BW group buy, and is a big loss to the community. Great artwork, great collaboration across the board, and an amazing tribute set to play with. Ruined.

 

[MD Mike]

It already happened with the BW group buy, and is a big loss to the community. Great artwork, great collaboration across the board, and an amazing tribute set to play with. Ruined.

Probably still not allowed to utter the name on this forum lol. BW is the closest we can get. I was on that train too… until it derailed.

 

[allforcharity]

My greatest reason for promoting ABC/BR Pro is that they helped to take over some of the uncertain orders that appeared when Sal died unexpectedly and OWPS orders were in Limbo. Gene didn't have to do what he did but he did it to serve the community. He deserves all the kudos and future orders for that alone.

 

[detroitdad]

My greatest reason for promoting ABC/BR Pro is that they helped to take over some of the uncertain orders that appeared when Sal died unexpectedly and OWPS orders were in Limbo. Gene didn't have to do what he did but he did it to serve the community. He deserves all the kudos and future orders for that alone.

Kristil's customer service is one of the top reasons I'll never purchase ceramics anywhere else.

 

[detroitdad]

Yep, I really liken them lol

 

[upNdown]

It already happened with the BW group buy, and is a big loss to the community. Great artwork, great collaboration across the board, and an amazing tribute set to play with. Ruined.

You say that like it was some sort of an injustice. I brought a real casino $1 and a BW $1 to a home game and people couldn’t tell the difference. If the untrained eye can’t tell the difference, maybe it’s something that shouldn’t be done.

 

[JMC9389]

You say that like it was some sort of an injustice. I brought a real casino $1 and a BW $1 to a home game and people couldn’t tell the difference. If the untrained eye can’t tell the difference, maybe it’s something that shouldn’t be done.

I even prefer the feeling of the Fauxgata's over the real Bud Jones chips. Sunfly won't touch doing that again, and probably for good reason, though if I was around at the time of the group buy I would have loaded up.

 

[BGinGA]

Not saying it SHOULD be done, but ordering a dead-on Borgata clone set on TINA'S hybrids is probably very doable.

Just be aware that their legal team monitors this site, and they don't play around when it comes to protecting their intellectual property rights.