Why did GPI stop making Paulson chips for the home market? (1 Viewer)

[Mike Anderson]

I've searched for the answer to this question, but I've never seen an explanation.

And more importantly, is there anything we can do to convince the company to reintroduce these chips? Surely they could make a profit of them, given that the chips are currently going for $2.50 - $3.

 

[doakwolf]

I've searched for the answer to this question, but I've never seen an explanation.

I don't believe there has been an official answer released to public (from GPI) but there is lots of speculation, much of which has been discussed here in some other similar threads.

Edit: still doesn't answer your Q but I enjoyed this thread from late last year which is relevant http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/way-to-get-paulson-chips.7166/

 

[doakwolf]

Worth clicking: http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/do-you-have-paulson-chips-to-sell.4052/#post-26207

 

[Mike Anderson]

^^ Aha, thanks.

 

[Lars]

A salesman from a wholesaler that I bought some stock from said that a bunch of casinos put pressure on Paulson to stop selling to the home market.

 

[Wils]

I've always thought this explanation didn't make sense.

Why would casinos do that? It's not like people would think, "Damn now we have to buy our chips from the casinos."

Likewise, it's not like casinos would think, "haha, now people have to come to casinos to play with Paulson's (as long as no one has any already)"

But, I may well be speaking out of ignorance, so feel free to chip in.

 

[dickzapper]

I've always thought this explanation didn't make sense.

Why would casinos do that? It's not like people would think, "Damn now we have to buy our chips from the casinos."

Likewise, it's not like casinos would think, "haha, now people have to come to casinos to play with Paulson's (as long as no one has any already)"

But, I may well be speaking out of ignorance, so feel free to chip in.

Probably more concerned with security issues... but ya know that really doesn't make sense either, but I guess some absentminded dealers could always be tricked if you slipped some similarly colored chips into the middle of a stack.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Probably more concerned with security issues... but ya know that really doesn't make sense either, but I guess some absentminded dealers could always be tricked if you slipped some similarly colored chips into the middle of a stack.

Why not China clays then. Surely there are CC colors the same as some Paulson colors

 

[BGinGA]

Given the differences in molds sold to casinos vs the home market, it makes little sense from a security/counterfeit perspective. But nobody ever claimed that people in casino management were the sharpest knives in the drawer.....

I'd be a lot less surprised if it were the various gaming commissions that exerted pressure on GPI. They have the regulatory clout to back it up, and have proven over and over the dullness of their pointy utensils.

 

[Dwight87]

My guess is security. Wasn't a recent Borgata tourney compromised with labeled solid grey china clay $5000 chips? Imagine how much easier it would be to go undetected using forged TH&C chips.

I think closing the home market, buying out BCC then shutting down that operation, and @TheChipRoom unable to acquire any Paulson chip caches recently are all related to GPI's uptick in chip security to protect their main clients.

 

[justsomedude]

Some more info from Josh, over here...

 

[BGinGA]

Imagine how much easier it would be to go undetected using forged TH&C chips.

Yeah, except Paulson hasn't produced TH&C chips for sale to the public in over 15 years, and none have been sold since being merged into GPI. That argument has no validity as a reason to not produce home-market chips on other molds.

 

[justsomedude]

Wasn't a recent Borgata tourney compromised with labeled solid grey china clay $5000 chips?

Toilet. Flush.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/poker-player-counterfeited-chips-5-years-article-1.2408395

 

[Lars]

There's no question that chip nerds would catch the differences. But your average employee standing there grinding it out on their shift is not going to catch the difference in molds. One thing I have figuring out with all my customs is that most people over the age of 45 can't see well enough to distinguish the fine details necessary to know the differences. Surely part of the reasoning behind the varied edge spots is so that you are not just depending on color but pattern as well for quick recognition. The dealer has to manage house chips, deal the cards, and manage players. On top of that keeping your eye out for cheaters as well as well made counterfeits would be impossible. I don't blame GPI for no longer selling home chips. Especially where they make cards which need constant replacement and I assume would have a higher profit margin.

 

[Dwight87]

Yeah, except Paulson hasn't produced TH&C chips for sale to the public in over 15 years, and none have been sold since being merged into GPI. That argument has no validity as a reason to not produce home-market chips on other molds.

I was referring to casino solid TH&C cherries being available (via @TheChipRoom or @noblecountydanny) that can easily be labeled and sneaked into a casino tourney.

If I'm in charge of GPI chip security, I'd be discussing with the home-market division about how their chips could be professionally relabeled (@Gear) and introduced into similar live casino chips. I'd be discussing with the production division about how BCC is producing the closest paulson-like chips of all the chip manufacturers, then recommend buying them out to close that loop-whole. I'd be discussing with state gaming commissions the recent counterfeit incidents and how they can't let sellers like @TheChipRoom purchase closed casino chip caches and release them to the public to alter.

Of course, I don't know if these discussions are happening but I would argue that what we are seeing now is part of a bigger picture for GPI to protect their casino clients, including closing the home-market.

 

[justsomedude]

I'd be discussing with the production division about how BCC is producing the closest paulson-like chips of all the chip manufacturers, then recommend buying them out to close that loop-whole.

Already happened...

 

[Dwight87]

Already happened...

I know, what we don't know is why but I suspect what I mentioned above is part of the reason.

 

[justsomedude]

I know, what we don't know is why but I suspect what I mentioned above is part of the reason.

Or just Business 101, "eliminate the competition."

If you can't beat em, buy em out.

 

[bluesman250]

Does anyone know how much of BCC's business was home market vs. casinos? My guess is that the home market was the smaller of the two, and that GPI just didn't see any value in continuing that line of business through BCC. Then add all of the other reasons above for discontinuing their own home market business. Sigh...

 

[dennis63]

Threads like this make me worry about Gemaco Superflex playing cards, now that Gemaco is owned by GPI.

A few years ago, I contacted Gemaco about doing custom cards and got a phone call pretty promptly. Now they really don't answer e-mails.

 

[mummel]

I thought casino chips were RFID tagged to prevent counterfeiting?

http://www.gpigaming.com/rfid-technology/rfid-in-casino-chips

Isnt this why casino's pay higher prices for their chips? It doesnt make sense that Paulson stopped selling to the home market at lower prices because they wanted to continue to command higher prices from casinos. Dont casinos need totally different chips?

Also, why not just sell to the home market at casino prices if that's really the issue. Naaaa something sounds off.

 

[Tommy]

Stories like this do not help.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...h-passing-fake-chips-at-maryland-live-casino/

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...-live-counterfeit-chips-virginia-state-police

Ever see the Maryland Live China Clay fakes?

REAL

FAKES

 

[justsomedude]

Stories like this do not help.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...h-passing-fake-chips-at-maryland-live-casino/

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...-live-counterfeit-chips-virginia-state-police

Ever see the Maryland Live China Clay fakes?

REAL
View attachment 38304

FAKES
View attachment 38303
View attachment 38302

Whoa.

 

[tommythecat]

Stories like this do not help.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...h-passing-fake-chips-at-maryland-live-casino/

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...-live-counterfeit-chips-virginia-state-police

Ever see the Maryland Live China Clay fakes?

REAL
View attachment 38304

FAKES
View attachment 38303
View attachment 38302
View attachment 38306

Where do I order those.

That is crazy.

 

[Tommy]

Where do I order those.

That is crazy.

Truong has admitted to Maryland State Police that he purchased counterfeit casino chips on the Internet — paying $12,000 for $150,000 worth, authorities said.

$8 per chip for China Clays. Wonder if he owns the mold.

 

[justsomedude]

Gimmeh...

 

[Dwight87]

Right down to the microdot copy.

 

[tommythecat]

$8 per chip for China Clays. Wonder if he owns the mold.

Not a bad return on investment...if you don't get caught.

 

[mummel]

Not a bad return on investment...if you don't get caught.

What law is broken by producing counterfeit chips?

 

[justsomedude]

What law is broken by producing counterfeit chips?

I don't think "producing" them is a problem, per se. It's putting them into play at a casino that breaks a multitude of gaming laws. Even selling them with some "untoward" intent may land you in hot water, if you have an aggressive prosecutor.

And depending on how far the prosecutor wants to go, and what the actual criminal acts were, they could throw all kinds of crap at you like fraud, conspiracy, money laundering, racketeering, etc.