What happens if your chipset has been compromised? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter exodus
- Start date
Is your hypothetical that someone not cashed in chips at the end of a session or has taken chips from your inventory without you realizing and reintroducing it “for free” to them? Or that your design was compromised and more chips exist than you own?
I think in all cases, strict inventory control after each session will allow for early detection.
If someone pocketed a chip that they didn’t cash in, and you keep a good ledger, you’d see that right away when you reconcile. In that case, at least you’re not out whatever the value of the denom is (though if the value of the chip itself is more, then that’s a net loss).
Or if someone grabbed a chip from the bank without you seeing, then taking stock at the end of the session will show that a chip is unaccounted for.
If someone introduces fakes (or even exact replicas) of your design then you’ll have a surplus of chips when you do inventory.
In each case at least you’d know it was someone from the session that just occurred. Then hopefully that helps you narrow down a suspect, or at least makes you more vigilant around those players until you can get eliminate some of the suspects and zero in on the actual culprit.
Edit: Depending on the extent of the compromise, and the people involved, hopefully you wouldn’t have to retire your set. If your design isn’t being mass produced, and you can recover stolen chips from your actual set, then you should be pretty secure again.
Wouldn’t know what to do if your design was compromised and others were making your chips. But then it’s kinda like when someone plays with an existing chip set like Jack Cincinnati where someone else could buy and introduce chips into your game.
So that’s not a unique problem for custom chips. In fact it’s potentially more of a problem for chips from TCR sales and Tina GBs of stock designs. Probably comes back to strict inventory control in that case.
I think in all cases, strict inventory control after each session will allow for early detection.
If someone pocketed a chip that they didn’t cash in, and you keep a good ledger, you’d see that right away when you reconcile. In that case, at least you’re not out whatever the value of the denom is (though if the value of the chip itself is more, then that’s a net loss).
Or if someone grabbed a chip from the bank without you seeing, then taking stock at the end of the session will show that a chip is unaccounted for.
If someone introduces fakes (or even exact replicas) of your design then you’ll have a surplus of chips when you do inventory.
In each case at least you’d know it was someone from the session that just occurred. Then hopefully that helps you narrow down a suspect, or at least makes you more vigilant around those players until you can get eliminate some of the suspects and zero in on the actual culprit.
Edit: Depending on the extent of the compromise, and the people involved, hopefully you wouldn’t have to retire your set. If your design isn’t being mass produced, and you can recover stolen chips from your actual set, then you should be pretty secure again.
Wouldn’t know what to do if your design was compromised and others were making your chips. But then it’s kinda like when someone plays with an existing chip set like Jack Cincinnati where someone else could buy and introduce chips into your game.
So that’s not a unique problem for custom chips. In fact it’s potentially more of a problem for chips from TCR sales and Tina GBs of stock designs. Probably comes back to strict inventory control in that case.
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LeLe
4 of a Kind
Most people here have multiple set or set that is highly expensive so that it probably quite safe as they will rotate the set enough to avoid people from considering slipping in their chips.
But then if your “friends” are going to cheat, there are easier and less undetectable method. Slipping in chip can only be used once and quite troublesome to get the chips too
But then if your “friends” are going to cheat, there are easier and less undetectable method. Slipping in chip can only be used once and quite troublesome to get the chips too
Strict inventory control as @TheOffalo mentioned, is key. I had a poker game compromised a few years ago because I kept using the same chipset that could be bought by anyone, my stakes were getting higher, and the clientele was becoming more sketchy. On a couple of occasions, my count was off by over $20 and $50, but I figured it was my error in counting. However, the final straw occurred when a player introduced a barrel of 25's and at some point got it into the game. When it was time to cash out, I had to square the bank up out of my own winnings - luckily I was up that night. I figured that each time the count was off, it was the same person testing the waters at first, and then taking a big risk with the $25's. Consequently, I did a few basic things to tighten up my game:
1) Drink less during the game (especially higher stakes games).
2) I started using a less common chipset, and marked my chips with a specific color, in a specific location on each chip.
3) Introduced a lower quantity of chips to the game, less fracs and more mid-level denomination chips
4) I was the only one running the bank, the chip cage was next to me, and the cash went into a locked cash box
5) When someone wants to add on, or rebuy, I stop the game momentarily to make the proper exchange and annotate it
6) Players only receive the chips once the money is received, no squaring up later, and no credit
7) Double-check the buy-in and rebuy quantities every time they are given
8) Keep a handwritten ledger of who buys in and for what amount (write it down with each add-on)
9) When someone cashes out get a table count against your original chip supply for the game
10) If you keep it social, among friends, you have a lesser chance of getting scammed.
11) If you have an open-door policy, do your best to vet the players first.
12) Lastly, as the host, you have the final responsibility to make everything square, so take every precaution you can to avoid the risk.
Once I started doing these things, I noticed a couple of the non-regular players stopped coming, and I never had another issue with the bank again.
1) Drink less during the game (especially higher stakes games).
2) I started using a less common chipset, and marked my chips with a specific color, in a specific location on each chip.
3) Introduced a lower quantity of chips to the game, less fracs and more mid-level denomination chips
4) I was the only one running the bank, the chip cage was next to me, and the cash went into a locked cash box
5) When someone wants to add on, or rebuy, I stop the game momentarily to make the proper exchange and annotate it
6) Players only receive the chips once the money is received, no squaring up later, and no credit
7) Double-check the buy-in and rebuy quantities every time they are given
8) Keep a handwritten ledger of who buys in and for what amount (write it down with each add-on)
9) When someone cashes out get a table count against your original chip supply for the game
10) If you keep it social, among friends, you have a lesser chance of getting scammed.
11) If you have an open-door policy, do your best to vet the players first.
12) Lastly, as the host, you have the final responsibility to make everything square, so take every precaution you can to avoid the risk.
Once I started doing these things, I noticed a couple of the non-regular players stopped coming, and I never had another issue with the bank again.
Had one of my golden gate quarters disappear at a game this year. Not one of my games. Was priceless to me, but the person that took it probably doesn't realize that. It's pretty rare for theft, even unintentional, to occur. Or maybe it just got lost.
philhut
Flush
Do you have two sets that cover the same stakes? you could play your alternative set.
- pre count and post count your chips
- review your buy in procedure, it's easy to give out the wrong count that will leave the bank short later.
-- if you are concerned consider selling and obtaining a new less commercially available set.
- pre count and post count your chips
- review your buy in procedure, it's easy to give out the wrong count that will leave the bank short later.
-- if you are concerned consider selling and obtaining a new less commercially available set.
tabletalker7
Full House
Semi Custom from BRPro = affordable security. Other can try to replicate it but it will never be quite right.
Seeking Alpha Social Club
4 of a Kind
I have not had any problems or concerns, but I think that has more to do with being selective about who I invite.
HOWEVER....for the record. If any of you want to sneak TRK Rounders into my game, I will save you a seat.
I have three rotating sets, but as previously stated I don't really have any concerns for people sneaking chips into my game. I have a custom BR Pro set, Tina's Sunset Beach Set, and DJs. I'm glad eBay prices for the DJs are high in case anyone gets any ideas, but my chipsets have balanced correctly at the end of the night.
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
If someone wants to sneak some Capitol City $100s into my game they’re more than welcome to.
Your game must play pretty big to not notice a full extra barrel of $25 on the table.
This might be another reason to consider limiting the number of workhorse chips on the table and trying to get a few more high denoms on the table. An extra barrel of chips out of a max bank of 10 barrels might be noticed more readily then when there's 30 barrels on the table.
Or full custom Tinas, or equivalent. I've always wondered about the possible security risks of using TCR sale chips (and even Paulson fantasy lines) because there are so many out there (mid-high denoms) and relatively available to anyone.
Does anybody on PCF use fracs that cost them less than face value?? Even tina chips cost more than a quarter. (many of us could say the same for our ones and fives but that's cause we're dummies)
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
Except if you round up/down (shout out @upNdown) fracs or $1s
louBdub
Full House
I’m in the “Nobody is playing with my chips unless I know you” boat. Myself & @Stebo0792 have even gone as far as having a get to know you lunch with new players before we bring them in.
I’m also in the “bring whatever chips you wanna sneak in” camp like @Seeking Alpha Social Club & @RocAFella1 said I’ll gladly cash you out at face value If you want
I’m also in the “bring whatever chips you wanna sneak in” camp like @Seeking Alpha Social Club & @RocAFella1 said
I’ll gladly cash you out at face value If you want 
Fool proof, one step process: hire me to harvest a live Vegas chip set. Felt those at face value. Absolutely no worry of chips being brought in or taken out of the game.
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
Burn the building and salt the earth?
It did, but I haven't hosted games like that in a few years. I assume they were dropping a chip into the game here and there without anyone noticing.
I did this. And I play for a lot less than you do
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
We just have a locker
I use a lammer system where the lammer goes into the cash box with the buy ins. Then the lamer amount has to balance with cash amount, anything off balance would be known immediately. Well, I also have three cash sets and 4 tournament sets I rotate on an inconsistent basis. No one but me knows what set is being played before they show.
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
$5s too for that matter!If someone wants to sneak some Capitol City $100s into my game they’re more than welcome to.
Unfortunately, fracs are often some of the most expensive chips in my cash sets, because of the time and expense required to customize them. Maybe I should just play 1/1.
Now this invites someone to take the whole apache case to Vegas with them
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
tabletalker7
Full House
Quit thinking of chips as a piece required in a game and think of them more as a form of currency. For each $1 bill the US government prints, it brings in $20 in tax revenue in it's lifespan. My 2 racks of nickel chips have been bought to be put in play so many times that the $10 in chips that cost me around $140 to get has easily put $500 on the table since I got them. Sounds like a worthy investment to me.
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RocAFella1
Royal Flush
This is the way.
My 212 semi-custom quarters probably have cost me close to $800 in raw materials alone, then add time to murder on top.
And I consider myself lucky in that not a few people here have spent that much per rack for fracs.
@Seeking Alpha Social Club , so sneaking in $500 and $1k Rounders is ok? You’ll honor the cash out. Asking for a friend.
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