What can I shove here? (1 Viewer)

[RagingAZN]

$25 bounty rebuy tournament. We are 5 handed. Blinds are at 600/1200 and I have 9300.

UTG folds who has a smaller stack than me. The three stacks behind all have about 35-40k.

I look down and see J5o. Is this a shove?

Attached pr0n of my home game setup before the storm!

 

[Mrs Poker Zombie]

I would not shove that kind of hand. But I’m me.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

No, don't shove. You're low but you've got big stacks after you in a bounty tournament, too scary for me., and you've got a smaller stack about to hit the blinds.

 

[Eriks]

It would be relevant to know how many places cash and also the difference between cashes. But I’d say no to a shove regardless here

 

[upNdown]

ICM considerations aside, I’m probably not shoving UTG+1 five-handed with J5o and 8.5bb.
But to be fair, I’m probably waiting one more orbit and shoving any two when I get UTG, if I don’t see at least an A or K before then

 

[detroitdad]

ICM considerations aside, I’m probably not shoving UTG+1 five-handed with J5o and 8.5bb.
But to be fair, I’m probably waiting one more orbit and shoving any two when I get UTG, if I don’t see at least an A or K before then

This...... Then I ask myself why I'm playing a hold'em tourney

 

[PlaidDragon]

No shuv with J5o there. Time is short for you but IMHO there's a fair chance one of your next two hands should be better than that.

 

[Jimulacrum]

ICM considerations aside, I’m probably not shoving UTG+1 five-handed with J5o and 8.5bb.
But to be fair, I’m probably waiting one more orbit and shoving any two when I get UTG, if I don’t see at least an A or K before then

Yeah, same. Not quite shoving material in this spot, but it's not going to take much more for me to shove in a few hands.

 

[RagingAZN]

It would be relevant to know how many places cash and also the difference between cashes. But I’d say no to a shove regardless here

Top 3 are paid $100, $60 and $35 (+ bounties).

It seems the consensus is to fold, which I did. Two hands later (I folded T5o and 83o) I’m in the SB and it’s folded to me.

I look at J4o this time with 7500, BB still has about 35k. Is this time a shove?

The blinds will have gone up to 800/1600 in a hand or two.

 

[MichaelBubly]

Yeah, you really can't shove here w/ J5o. Especially as a shorter stack. and especially with a bounty. Realistically, as a short stack in a bounty, you want to go with something decent as you will likely be getting called incredibly wide. This means in most situations, you can be a bit more aggressive with strong hand jamming preflop, although with under 10BB that gets chucked out the window.

Again, with J4o, it's still just a fold. You don't have enough to realistically give you any fold equity. I think you're probably looking for Kx, Ax, any pair, suited 89+910+ J10, suited Qx. With 5 players and 7BB, you would still have ample time to get a better hand than J4 and hopefully a better spot to double. Especially this close to the money. It is possible someone goes crazy and suddenly you sneak your way to a min cash. Unlikely, but J4 and J5 is not a great Jam.

 

[MichaelBubly]

To add, obviously below like 2BB you are just going to have to go with anything in the SB, but with 6.25BB 5 ways while being 4th in chips, I think you're odds of finding a better spot are very high. If you BB was at like 12k or 15k you could probably mix in jamming with Jx here trying to get him to fold out a lot of garbage with ICM, but being a bounty you'll still probably get called fairly wide and J5o just doesn't have a lot of equity against a lot of their calling range.

 

[JustinInMN]

First I love this topic! It's key to tournament strategy.

$25 bounty rebuy tournament. We are 5 handed. Blinds are at 600/1200 and I have 9300.

UTG folds who has a smaller stack than me. The three stacks behind all have about 35-40k.

I look down and see J5o. Is this a shove?

I am with everyone else this is a fold. Mostly it's just too many players left.

I look at J4o this time with 7500, BB still has about 35k. Is this time a shove?

The blinds will have gone up to 800/1600 in a hand or two.

This one I think is much closer than the first one.
1) Blind pressure is higher. After the blinds go up hero will have 5bb and has to go with one of the next 3 hands.
2) Fewer players left. Given the above once could not guarantee a heads up situation will come up in the next orbit.

So the question is would you rather go heads up now or go with one of the next 4 hands. Chances are you will be dealt a Kx or better in the next four spots so maybe it's worth hoping for that. But again, you won't be in another heads up spot.

My instinct is fold here and wait, but man, I think it's close.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Are we being catfished here?

 

[RagingAZN]

Thank you again for the replies. I ended up going with the shove in the SB and got looked up by JTs unfortunately.

I knew it was probably a very marginal push but as @JustinInMN said, I was happy to be in the HU spot and would probably have to jam in the next 3 hands regardless anyway. I was also wary that if I keep waiting for a better spot, my stack will dwindle down to a level where the bigger stacks could call me with anything. They all had about 30-33 BBs so at 6-7 BBs, they’ll still have to think about calling but at 2-3 BBs it becomes very easy for them to call light.

I was looking at push/fold charts but I don’t think they take into account that the blinds may be increasing soon right? Also in general, the average player calls tigher than they should (especially close to the bubble) so shoving wider becomes more profitable right?

 

[BGinGA]

Top 3 are paid $100, $60 and $35 (+ bounties).

It seems the consensus is to fold, which I did. Two hands later (I folded T5o and 83o) I’m in the SB and it’s folded to me.

I look at J4o this time with 7500, BB still has about 35k. Is this time a shove?

The blinds will have gone up to 800/1600 in a hand or two.

Still folding.

 

[MichaelBubly]

Thank you again for the replies. I ended up going with the shove in the SB and got looked up by JTs unfortunately.

I knew it was probably a very marginal push but as @JustinInMN said, I was happy to be in the HU spot and would probably have to jam in the next 3 hands regardless anyway. I was also wary that if I keep waiting for a better spot, my stack will dwindle down to a level where the bigger stacks could call me with anything. They all had about 30-33 BBs so at 6-7 BBs, they’ll still have to think about calling but at 2-3 BBs it becomes very easy for them to call light.

I don't think you have any fold equity with bounty. For less than 1/3 stack it's pretty much a snap call with anything other than 72o and maybe 3-4 other hands. But realistically just getting called every time here.

I was looking at push/fold charts but I don’t think they take into account that the blinds may be increasing soon right? Also in general, the average player calls tigher than they should (especially close to the bubble) so shoving wider becomes more profitable right?

This is true if you are a chip leader or close to it depending on position and chip stacks. If you are short, you should be playing tighter to try and sneak into the money. Especially with bounties in play, depending on the relevance compared to cashing, you'll be getting called super wide from a stack 4.5x the size. Could be any two cards actually if the bounty is big enough.

If you had more chips than him here you can probably get away with a shove with the ICM pressure. Pretty much shoving any two cards and sucking in the blinds and possibly winning a bounty. But shorter equals tighter typically.