Deepstack NL early level AKo (1 Viewer)

[Gunnar]

So we are playing Level 3 in Deepstack medium buy-in freeze-out tournament.
We have 82k in stack and blinds are 300/600/600

We are in the BB!

Villain 1, New player at the table, stack is 70K, we have seen him win two pots aggressively but not seen what he was holding.
Villain 2, stack 40K ish, we took a lot from him few hands ago, he likes calling.

Villain 1, Utg Raises to 1800
folded to Villain 2, he raises to 4500
folded to me ( I decide to flat here to see if I can get some calls from V2 if I hit)
Villain 1 raises to 18.000
Villain 2 folds,
I Make the call...

Pot is 41.400
Flop is

Are we leading out?
We decide to check here and Villain checks behind. Turn is
Stacks are,
Hero 64K
Villain 52K
What do we do...

 

[Jimulacrum]

You've let the pot get too large to have second thoughts about TPTK. Especially aces against a 3-bettor.

If you're behind (to AA, likely), it's game over anyway. There's not enough potential action remaining to find a reasonable fold.

If you're ahead, checking may trap V1, but it's too much of a gamble for too small of a gain (relative to the pot).

Two moves on the flop: shove your stack or make a weak-looking bet like 18K to try to entice a bluff (e.g., from a KK who won't want to give it up for the same damn bet he just made).

Which play to make depends on your opponent, about whom we have very little information. I recommend erring on the side of shoving to protect the pot, especially with this being a tournament.

Spoiler: Better to put the next round in a separate post after people have responded, but here we are.

As played, on the blank turn, the "feeler bet" is a slightly better option because you've made yourself look weak, and enticing a bluff is probably more likely. But I still like shoving. You should never feel bad about taking down big pots uncontested.

Better play than all of this was to fold to the preflop 4-bet. Even flatting the 3-bet was questionable, but I could see an argument for it. When it comes back around for 18K, you took your chance calling the 4.5K and didn't get what you wanted. That raise reeks of a hand that crushes you, even if you improve on the flop. No sense in putting almost 1/4 of your stack in to see what happens.

Pay your toll and save your chips for better spots.

 

[Kain8]

On flop:

 

[Senzrock]

Never lead here, play in flow and check/call or check/shove depending on villains bet/sizing.

In general we rarely want to break flow (ie. Checking to original raiser and not donk leading) unless we have a very well thought out reason for it.

(Just saw the turn action)

We should now lead turn small to keep in villains KK / QQ type of hands. I would suggest ~10k-20k sizing to set up a jam on the river. Obviously we are calling off any raise of our bet.

 

[JMC9389]

Fold pre.

As played, check flop. Lead out about 1/3 pot on the turn.

 

[Gunnar]

Thanks guys, I really needed to hear that I should have folded this pre-flop that is the mistake I made.

We are in the BB!

Villain 1, New player at the table, stack is 70K, we have seen him win two pots aggressively but not seen what he was holding.
Villain 2, stack 40K ish, we took a lot from him few hands ago, he likes calling.

Villain 1, Utg Raises to 1800
folded to Villain 2, he raises to 4500
folded to me ( I decide to flat here to see if I can get some calls from V2 if I hit)
Villain 1 raises to 18.000
Villain 2 folds,
I Make the call...


Pot is 41.400
Flop is

Are we leading out?
We decide to check here and Villain checks behind. Turn is
Stacks are,
Hero 64K
Villain 52K

I bet here 20k he thinks about it and calls, I get the feeling that he is not as strong as I thought, the range I had him on there was AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK's and that moment of weakness gets me to rule out AA

Pot is 81.400
we have 44k behind
he has 32k behind

River is the

I think to myself, fuck this is going to be one of those bad beat stories where he hit the trips on the river. But to my surprise I can see that he is not happy. I shove.

He goes in the tank, Im thinking AK's might fold here, QQ,JJ are folding, AA and KK are calling. I think it is safe to assume that he never has AQs here but that would fold two. He thinks for quite a solid time, then sighs and makes the call. He had


Im not happy with how I played this hand preflop but my read was partly right as he thought he was behind and he was really unhappy about that king as he thought I was doing some tricks with AA or KK in the BB.

 

[JMC9389]

Why is the villain even tanking? That runout is a slam dunk fist bump snap call.

You should have all of the top pair/second pair/two pair combos in the world there. Yeah, you can have kings or even aces there, but how likely is that when you're checking the flop? Even Aces are even betting for protection against strong flush draws.

 

[Eriks]

I would make a big mental note about his pre-flop play. 4-betting 99 after opening utg and getting 3bet + cold called is just bad. Especially when he has a chance to close the action and potentially flop a set 3-ways in position (or where what position was the 3-bettor in?)

 

[Gunnar]

I would make a big mental note about his pre-flop play. 4-betting 99 after opening utg and getting 3bet + cold called is just bad. Especially when he has a chance to close the action and potentially flop a set 3-ways in position (or where what position was the 3-bettor in?)

He is UTG and opens
is raised
I call that raise
He 4-bets

 

[Gunnar]

Why is the villain even tanking? That runout is a slam dunk fist bump snap call.

You should have all of the top pair/second pair/two pair combos in the world there. Yeah, you can have kings or even aces there, but how likely is that when you're checking the flop? Even Aces are even betting for protection against strong flush draws.

Don't ask me Im the one who flatted 18k preflop with AKo....

 

[Senzrock]

He had

Villain is a terrible player - play as many pots as you can moving forward with him!

The lesson here is not to fold AK pre, especially if villain is doing this with hands like AK. It is a cooler and there is just nothing to do with top two pair vs a hidden set. The fact that villain is tanking here is hilariously bad.

 

[Eriks]

He is UTG and opens
is raised
I call that raise
He 4-bets

That’s what I said. 3-bettors position matters too though. Utg open + 3-bet from utg+1 is stronger than utg open + button 3-bet for instance.

Also we don’t know how many players are at the table. If it’s 6-handed, the 4-bet is very ambitious. If 9 or 10-handed, it’s terrible.

 

[Gunnar]

That’s what I said. 3-bettors position matters too though. Utg open + 3-bet from utg+1 is stronger than utg open + button 3-bet for instance.

Also we don’t know how many players are at the table. If it’s 6-handed, the 4-bet is very ambitious. If 9 or 10-handed, it’s terrible.

9 players

 

[RagahRagah]

Villain is a terrible player - play as many pots as you can moving forward with him!

The lesson here is not to fold AK pre, especially if villain is doing this with hands like AK. It is a cooler and there is just nothing to do with top two pair vs a hidden set. The fact that villain is tanking here is hilariously bad.

I'm really not sure what the perceived problem is flatting with AK here. I realize out of position is a big deal but with money already invested with the blinds I don't see folding AK pre with the noted aggressive play and having already jumped in the pot. Feels too invested for me.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm really not sure what the perceived problem is flatting with AK here. I realize out of position is a big deal but with money already invested with the blinds I don't see folding AK pre with the noted aggressive play and having already jumped in the pot. Feels too invested for me.

1. "Noted aggressive play" is a tiny sample of hands that has no practical application yet. We should be treating this player as a new player because he effectively still is. From a new player, a substantial 4-bet over the given action represents a range that leaves AK at best a coin flip and at worst a huge dog.

Given the bets and stack sizes, and especially the fact that it's a tournament, it doesn't make sense to continue at all. Against a player with any kind of reasonable 4-betting range, calling here is passively gambling against the odds, which you almost never want to be doing, especially for 22% of your stack (and 26% of effective stacks).

This analysis is a little different against a player with a loose range.

2. Assume that V1 is in fact a LAG type of player who 4-bets very wide. We can expect his 4-bet to include all the powerhouse hands but also oddball stuff like A5s, 22, or even 67o. In this case you still don't want to just flat, because you're allowing him to take control of the action and turning your AK into a fit-or-fold hand on the flop—for almost a quarter of your stack.

If you truly believe his range is stupid-wide here, the play is to shove over his 18K, expecting to take it down the vast majority of the time, and only occasionally find yourself behind or flipping.