What a joke! (9 Viewers)

[Perthmike]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, money has ruined this hobby.

I definitely appreciate that new members can make mistakes with pricing, so I'm open to giving them a pass on that. Better than giving some flipper something cheap. But you really do need to honour your sales.

Equally I see a lot of people yelling and stomping over their "dibs" like they have more right to ownership than the actual owner and it does make me laugh.

All in all this type of general doucebaggery from buyers and sellers is not going anywhere. Chipping is about cash now instead of community and trust.

Probably wasn't much point to that wall of text but I felt like another rant

 

[Marius L]

There is a reason why "buy first, think later" AKA "buy everything and sell what you don't need" is a thing. I can absolutely understand why sellers prefer to do as few shipments as possible on these high demand chips that will all sell quickly anyways.

I blame the buyers in the other thread for being ignorant and naive only claiming one rack each of those yellow beauties.

Sorry, not helpful, I know.

 

[stavman]

I’ve also said this I the other thread. This is the ONLY place that has this strange dibs system. In any other forum or community that I’ve been a part of something is posted and the deal is done via PM.

 

[Eloe2000]

There is a reason why "buy first, think later" AKA "buy everything and sell what you don't need" is a thing. I can absolutely understand why sellers prefer to do as few shipments as possible on these high demand chips that will all sell quickly anyways.

I blame the buyers in the other thread for being ignorant and naive only claiming one rack each of those yellow beauties.

Sorry, not helpful, I know.

Yep. Those two initial buyers were jerks in trying not to be greedy by only buying what they intended to use and not all which they could gain from. Lesson learned.

 

[JMC9389]

This fucking pandemic needs to end. I'm seeing good, strong people crack both on and off forum because of the isolation and lack of leisure time. This past summer I was in a situation that I was lucky enough to get a few games of poker in before things had to shut down again in the fall. I can't imagine those that haven't played live in over a year or haven't seen their friends and family in that amount of time. I have friends that I haven't seen in over a year now. Friendships that I'm also reevaluating because of this pandemic and because we haven't checked in on each other in months.

I'm getting way too off tangent here. I already have been spending less time here. Once my BRPRO ceramic set and CPC set come in this week and I post some pRon, I'm out of here for a while. Coming here is an escape from the daily grind that's become a hellscape for me. It doesn't feel like an escape any longer. I don't come here to feel stressed out and get into it with others.

I totally understand now why some of the longer tenured members do business via PM's only and skip the classifieds all together. I get it now and will be doing that moving forward.

Peace and love all, stay safe and healthy, and get vaccinated when you're able!

 

[Marius L]

Yep. Those two initial buyers were jerks in trying not to be greedy by only buying what they intended to use and not all which they could gain from. Lesson learned.

I know you are a super good member here @Eloe2000, so it was meant mostly as a joke. But at the same time this is not a completely new thing, IMO. Those strategies were developed after missing out in similar situations.

 

[stavman]

Yep. Those two initial buyers were jerks in trying not to be greedy by only buying what they intended to use and not all which they could gain from. Lesson learned.

I intended to use both racks does that make it better? I also didn’t buy to flip. Anything I purchased from here I’ve sold back at the same price or for a loss.

I also want to state that I’ve not completed the sell. So I’m sure someone else picked them up or the seller is over it.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

i dont want hassles form you guys, you annoy the shit out of me and sooo happy i left this shit stain of a community 10 years ago. you have not changed a fucking bit.


GOOD FUCKING RIDDENCE TO YOU GREEDY ENTITLED BUNCH!

This seems to have been overlooked. Several people are saying to cut him slack because he’s a newbie with only a few posts. And that may be a good thing if he was a newbie but he admits to being in this hobby for a while and being a member of this community over a decade ago.

 

[Eloe2000]

I know you are a super good member here @Eloe2000, so it was meant mostly as a joke. But at the same time this is not a completely new thing, IMO. Those strategies were developed after missing out in similar situations.

I know you you were being humorous and I have the same respect for you. I was trying to kid myself a bit.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Anything I purchased from here I’ve sold back at the same price or for a loss.

10 sales, 4 of them auctions

 

[ChaosRock]

I’ve also said this I the other thread. This is the ONLY place that has this strange dibs system. In any other forum or community that I’ve been a part of something is posted and the deal is done via PM.

My experience has been different than yours. I'm part of a lot of other community buy/sell groups and almost all of them only accept deals done publicly, i.e. posting BIN or SOLD in the thread. As a matter of fact, if it is brough up to moderators deals are been offered though PMs, that person is banned from the group.

Not saying what is right/wrong, better/worse, just providing color on how other groups do things.

 

[Eriks]

I’ve also said this I the other thread. This is the ONLY place that has this strange dibs system. In any other forum or community that I’ve been a part of something is posted and the deal is done via PM.

Yet it’s how we do it here and you knew and know that. On parts of autobahn in Germany one can drive as fast as one likes, yet bringing up that fact to the Swedish police when I get caught speeding over here won’t do me any good. (Yes I know buyers and seller can do as they please, bad example maybe but same principle)

 

[ekricket]

@Godzilla28 just want to make sure you see this thread

 

[Eloe2000]

I intended to use both racks does that make it better? I also didn’t buy to flip. Anything I purchased from here I’ve sold back at the same price or for a loss.

I also want to state that I’ve not completed the sell. So I’m sure someone else picked them up or the seller is over it.

I was just responding in jest at the other person’s comment. You and I don’t need to keep rehashing this, but I don’t want to confuse my primary issue so I want to simplify it once more. In straight sale ads the vast majority of members here believe they are operating by the rules and commonly held principals here when they respond publicly with an agreement to the terms followed by a PM for payment info. They believe the first to respond and agree to the stated terms gets the deal. Personally I believe when another buyer comes in later and only PMs the seller with a slightly higher price they are intentionally doing so to subvert the first buyer and leverage the “weakness” of that buyer’s willingness to follow the stated terms and generally held principals here. This is an “anything goes” “money talks” type of approach. I believe this place is a community based environment for people who have a common love and should operate on some commonly held principals of integrity.

We have different views on these things and I can respect that because you are honest on where you stand. Knowing my opinion and perspective is not universal is disappointing but also enlightening. I will conduct myself accordingly and deal with people differently going forward and leave this issue alone after this discussion dies out.

 

[BGinGA]

Just banning straight first-come/first-served dibs sales altogether solves the problem, imo. Allow only two types of PCF sales:

• public-bid auction, with a listed opening bid price -- awarded to the highest bidder after a time period specified in the ad
• public-drawing sale, with a listed fixed-price (total or per-item) -- awarded to a random winner chosen from pool of committed buyers after a specified time

Everything is understood up-front and transparent at every stage of the transactions with either sale. No behind-the-scenes offers allowed, and sellers and buyers/bidders who don't follow up with the sale and/or purchase are subsequently barred from using the classifieds.

And ditch the trade listing ad option altogether -- just maintain a single read-only thread for listing all items offered for trade, and interested traders can contact each other via private conversation to arrange details. Still allow WTB ads, but they must contain a willing-to-pay price (which can vary across quantity and condition variables).

End of drama. Don't want to be publicly identified as a buyer? Then the free and open community-based PCF chip sales forum isn't for you -- use eBay if you want anonymity. Don't have time to run an auction or random-buyer sale? Ditto -- plenty of opportunity to sell elsewhere.

This is -- and can still be -- an open community of good chippers, for the good of all chippers. No secrets, no cut-throat behaviors, and treating each other like friends instead of customers or marks are the start of the return to normalcy around here.

 

[stavman]

10 sales, 4 of them auctions

You probs shouldn't throw stones from a glass house, bud. I've only had two auctions 1 for a rack GV 25s and the bingo palace chip. I sold both at a loss.
Why don't you sell some more shit and sit on the money for months on end before sending.

 

[ekricket]

public-drawing sale, with a listed fixed-price (total or per-item) -- awarded to a random winner chosen from pool of committed buyers after a specified time

The problem with this is that the asshats will put their name in every drawing, and when they win one eventually they have a ready made list of people to contact and offer to sell them immediately to at higher prices.

“I know I just won these, but I decided to go a different direction so now I’m offering these at “FMV” to you now. When I get the chips I’ll send them to you for the extra postage too”

 

[Hornet]

He had fewer than 20 posts when he made his listing. Sorry, but cut the guy some slack. He doesn't know what they're worth and got a ton of PMs saying they were willing to offer more and that he should just auction them off. Especially those Aztar $25s! He listed them for probably 1/4th of what they're worth on the open market. Stop acting like you are in some legally binding contract with someone because you saw their classified listing first. You guys are getting ridiculous with all the slut-shaming around here. IT'S HIS PROPERTY. NOT YOURS. HE CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS WITH IT. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Just curious Travis, when is a deal a deal in your mind? Are “virtual handshakes” meaningless? If I agree to sell a rack of chips to someone for $500, and then someone else PMs me offering $600 for the rack, am I free to just back out of the first deal (this has happened to me multiple times)?

At some point it boils down to a person’s word. I stand by mine, even if I am leaving money on the table.

 

[stavman]

I was just responding in jest at the other person’s comment. You and I don’t need to keep rehashing this, but I don’t want to confuse my primary issue so I want to simplify it once more. In straight sale ads the vast majority of members here believe they are operating by the rules and commonly held principals here when they respond publicly with an agreement to the terms followed by a PM for payment info. They believe the first to respond and agree to the stated terms gets the deal. Personally I believe when another buyer comes in later and only PMs the seller with a slightly higher price they are intentionally doing so to subvert the first buyer and leverage the “weakness” of that buyer’s willingness to follow the stated terms and generally held principals here. This is an “anything goes” “money talks” type of approach. I believe this place is a community based environment for people who have a common love and should operate on some commonly held principals of integrity.

We have different views on these things and I can respect that because you are honest on where you stand. Knowing my opinion and perspective is not universal is disappointing but also enlightening. I will conduct myself accordingly and deal with people differently going forward and leave this issue alone after this discussion dies out.

I get it your side with the established principle of this site. Lots of sales don't lay out the terms very well.
This thread did not have any sale parameters.
So yes I took a shot to get something I've been chasing by offering more, and one shipping address.
I actually felt bad about it and that's why I came clean. Then the PCF mob comes out in full force.

 

[BarrieJ3]

You probs shouldn't throw stones from a glass house, bud. I've only had two auctions 1 for a rack GV 25s and the bingo palace chip. I sold both at a loss.
Why don't you sell some more shit and sit on the money for months on end before sending.

Forgetting the Nevada jacks set.

And you didn’t “sell them at a loss” mother Teresa, they auctioned off for less than you paid.

 

[stavman]

Forgetting the Nevada jacks set.

And you didn’t “sell them at a loss” mother Teresa, they auctioned off for less than you paid.

Isn't less than I paid a loss?

Yes sorry I forgot about those. I'm glad you track my every post.
The GVs didn't need, and couldn't move them in a regular sell. I put them as an auction to dump them.
The NJ I had no idea how I ended up with or what I paid. So tossed them up as an auction.
The BP chip I wanted to give everyone a chance, and I don't have time mess with a lottery sell.

 

[Eloe2000]

I get it your side with the established principle of this site. Lots of sales don't lay out the terms very well.
This thread did not have any sale parameters.
So yes I took a shot to get something I've been chasing by offering more, and one shipping address.
I actually felt bad about it and that's why I came clean. Then the PCF mob comes out in full force.

I appreciate it and thank you for coming forward, particularly knowing you would catch heat. While I have my own opinion on the best specific principals and rules, ultimately I just want everyone to play by the same rules so that the commerce portion of this hobby doesn’t divide people.

I am curious if you were involved in the other situation yesterday. I won’t

 

[stavman]

I appreciate it and thank you for coming forward, particularly knowing you would catch heat. While I have my own opinion on the best specific principals and rules, ultimately I just want everyone to play by the same rules so that the commerce portion of this hobby doesn’t divide people.

I am curious if you were involved in the other situation yesterday. I won’t

No I fucking wasn't Jesus.

 

[Himewad]

Seems to me that this

"Offers by PM no longer acceptable."

is completely unenforceable.

Everyone knows that PM sales occur all of the time on this forum. Some people track who has what chip sets. We definitely need enforceable guidelines and probably need a template for sales threads, similar to the ones implemented for auctions recently.

I am in no way a big time player on this forum, but I do participate in the classifieds. And I would be pissed as hell if I dibs'd an item, followed up with a PM, and then the seller decided to take a higher price outside of the classified ad with or without my knowledge. That's just shady on the part of the buyer trying to snake the item(s) in secret and the seller entertaining such offers in secret.

My eyes have definitely been opened to the fact that there are quite a few people who engage in and are attempting to defend this type of behavior.

 

[Eriks]

Isn't less than I paid a loss?

Well, there is a difference between ”selling at a loss” and ”the highest bid at my auction was less than I paid”, as the latter doesn’t really implies it was done out of the goodness of ones heart.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

 

[Irish]

Just curious Travis, when is a deal a deal in your mind? Are “virtual handshakes” meaningless? If I agree to sell a rack of chips to someone for $500, and then someone else PMs me offering $600 for the rack, am I free to just back out of the first deal (this has happened to me multiple times)?

At some point it boils down to a person’s word. I stand by mine, even if I am leaving money on the table.

IMHO this is what it boils down to - it's a "deal" when both parties have personal confirmation with each other on the agreed deal. Ad posted, PM to seller stating I'll take them, return PM from seller saying you got it go ahead and send the funds. If anyone backs out after that without a *really* good reason I'd be upset (buyer's or seller's side).

I may be off base here and I have no dog in these fights but IIRC the "Offers by PM no longer acceptable." term was added because folks were putting no price at all in their WTS ads. "Here are the chips I have, just send me offers". Didn't mean someone couldn't send an offer (higher or lower) it just further reinforced that a price was required in the ad.

 

[Eloe2000]

Just banning straight first-come/first-served dibs sales altogether solves the problem, imo. Allow only two types of PCF sales:

• public-bid auction, with a listed opening bid price -- awarded to the highest bidder after a time period specified in the ad
• public-drawing sale, with a listed fixed-price (total or per-item) -- awarded to a random winner chosen from pool of committed buyers after a specified time

Everything is understood up-front and transparent at every stage of the transactions with either sale. No behind-the-scenes offers allowed, and sellers and buyers/bidders who don't follow up with the sale and/or purchase are subsequently barred from using the classifieds.

And ditch the trade listing ad option altogether -- just maintain a single read-only thread for listing all items offered for trade, and interested traders can contact each other via private conversation to arrange details. Still allow WTB ads, but they must contain a willing-to-pay price (which can vary across quantity and condition variables).

End of drama. Don't want to be publicly identified as a buyer? Then the free and open community-based PCF chip sales forum isn't for you -- use eBay if you want anonymity.

This is -- and can still be -- an open community of good chippers, for the good of all chippers. No secrets, no cut-throat behaviors, and treating each other like friends instead of customers or marks are the start of the return to normalcy around here.

In another thread there is some discussion and confusion on this point highlighted below. It appears to me to just reference “PM only” sales threads, but it doesn’t appear 100% clear. Can you help us with some clarity?

 

[stavman]

Well, there is a difference between ”selling at a loss” and ”the highest bid at my auction was less than I paid”, as the latter doesn’t really implies it was done out of the goodness of ones heart.

I'm not just talking about the auction. I've sold things outright for a loss as well.

 

[Eloe2000]

No I fucking wasn't Jesus.

Thank you. And my intention wasn’t to pile onto you, but to understand how broad the base of people taking different approaches to sales threads is.