Weird hand, exposed card AA, lunatic. (1 Viewer)

[jpietrella]

OK, so I'm more so posting this because it's the first time I've seen it happen rather than asking for feedback on the play, but if anyone has any constructive criticism I'm game. I feel like the hand more or less played itself. Spoiler for the turn (and uninteresting river) for fun.

Game: $1/$2 live table at Foxwoods, 9-handed. Hero starts with ~$475, big stack at the table is ~$700, average stacks around $300. UTG+1 is the shortest stack at $95, SB is next in line with just under $240.

Notes:

• SB is a borderline lunatic, raises just about every pot, though usually a teaser, somewhere between $6-$9. He has, miraculously, smashed tons of flops with absolute garbage on a very consistent basis.
• All of my show downs to this point have shown strong holdings and if I'm at showdown, I'm probably taking down the pot. My image at this point should lean heavily in the TAG direction
• I'm familiar with the dealer. I haven't seen him in about 18 months because of COVID, but he knows me well and any borderline judgement calls he'd have to make would probably swing in my favor
• I've been openly card dead for the better part of about 90 minutes after taking down a couple of medium-sized pots

The Deal:

• Hero is on the button and chatting up villain who is in the SB
• Dealer pitches Hero's 1st hole card, hits the felt and immediately uses the top of my hand as a ramp and flips face up - . Dealer announces an exposed card, continues dealing
• Dealer successfully pitches Hero's 2nd card face down - , starts calling the action
• I gesture to the dealer for a replacement card but he announces that since the flipped card was not caused by the dealer, I'm allowed to keep it if I wish. I do.

Pre-Flop Action:

• 4 limps, 2 fold action to the Hero. I limp assuming the villain will raise. He obliges - $8 to go
• 4 calls, action to the Hero. I raise to $36.
• SB calls, 2 middle position players call

The Flop:

• Flop is
• SB bets $55, 2 calls and action to the Hero
• I raise all-in, for an additional $384 (effective $245 more with everyone still involved being shorter-stacked)
• SB tanks, chugs his Jack & Coke and makes the call for his remaining $148. The 2 middle position players fold
• I table my and he shows
• One of the middle position folders announces he folded

Spoiler: The Turn

Spoiler: The River

 

[Ethan]

“NH, lunatic”
Buy back in up to the villains stack
Open PF calling range
???
Profit

 

[upNdown]

I gesture to the dealer for a replacement card but he announces that since the flipped card was not caused by the dealer, I'm allowed to keep it if I wish. I do.

I've never seen nor heard of that.

Hey, you got it in good.

 

[Beakertwang]

Live poker is rigged!

 

[Hornet]

I gesture to the dealer for a replacement card but he announces that since the flipped card was not caused by the dealer, I'm allowed to keep it if I wish. I do.

This just seems to be a clearly incorrect ruling. If hero turned the card up, then hero should have to keep the card. If the card flipped up during the process of dealing (regardless of who “caused” it), then the card should come back and a replacement should be dealt. I’ve never heard of the player being given an option whether to keep the card or not.

 

[BGinGA]

And certainly not after receiving a second card. That option contains a lot of swing power.

 

[moose]

This just seems to be a clearly incorrect ruling. If hero turned the card up, then hero should have to keep the card. If the card flipped up during the process of dealing (regardless of who “caused” it), then the card should come back and a replacement should be dealt. I’ve never heard of the player being given an option whether to keep the card or not.

I think his option was to play the exposed card or fold, not whether or not to get a replacement.

 

[trigs]

I've actually thought of this type of scenario before. If a card is accidentally flipped over while dealing (no matter who is at fault), and the player wants to keep it (before getting to see their second card obviously), is there really anything wrong with that? It's their choice to play with one card exposed anyway. I'm assuming there's some cheating/angle that I'm not seeing perhaps.

 

[inca911]

...a card is accidentally flipped over while dealing (no matter who is at fault), and the player wants to keep it

Should not be an option, a replacement card should always be dealt. Sue them!

 

[MaxB]

you should have folded AA ..... I never see it win

 

[jpietrella]

Would anyone have asked for another card or folded AA given that half their hand was exposed at the start of the hand? Obviously you always want to start with the best hand possible, but there's something to be said for the table not knowing what half of your holding is.

 

[Hot Nuts]

I've gotten AA cracked by K10 quite a few times, often getting it all in and another k or 10 comes on the river. One guy did it to me twice and his nickname was K2. I called him K10 from then on.

 

[casinochipper22]

Lol. "Keep it if you wish" wow. And judgment calls side with you. Sounds like one hell of a dealer that I'd never play a hand with.
Its either his fault and you are given a new card. Or your fault and you keep the exposed card. It's absolutely never... "keep it if you feel like it". Haha. That's pretty funny.

 

[casinochipper22]

Lol. "Keep it if you wish" wow. And judgment calls side with you. Sounds like one hell of a dealer that I'd never play a hand with.
Its either his fault and you are given a new card. Or your fault and you keep the exposed card. It's absolutely never... "keep it if you feel like it". Haha. That's pretty funny.

And if there is any doubt... which there shouldn't be because you should literally be looking at the cards you are pitching... then the card should be kept in the players hand. That prevents players from taking shots and turning over a duece and trying to draw to an ace or king. Lol

 

[casinochipper22]

I've actually thought of this type of scenario before. If a card is accidentally flipped over while dealing (no matter who is at fault), and the player wants to keep it (before getting to see their second card obviously), is there really anything wrong with that? It's their choice to play with one card exposed anyway. I'm assuming there's some cheating/angle that I'm not seeing perhaps.

Dealers fault you are given a new card 100%. Players fault you keep the card. This prevents a possible angle from the player and even the dealer.

 

[Machine]

The dealer was incorrect

I gesture to the dealer for a replacement card but he announces that since the flipped card was not caused by the dealer

A card pitched by the dealer that is exposed because it strikes a player's hand shall be deemed exposed by the dealer, not by the player. - Cooke's Rules of Real Poker.

You should have been given another card, and if it was the second card exposed, 50/50 miss deal.

Constructive Criticism: Thank the guy for trying to give you his money, play another hand. =)

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Would anyone have asked for another card or folded AA given that half their hand was exposed at the start of the hand? Obviously you always want to start with the best hand possible, but there's something to be said for the table not knowing what half of your holding is.

Villain knew AA and AK were possible and called your shove anyway.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

SB tanks, chugs his Jack & Coke and makes the call for his remaining $148

 

[Taghkanic]

I've never seen nor heard of that.

Me, neither.

First of all, it seems like the flip was the dealer’s “fault.” S/he pitched it in such a way that it flipped just from hitting an object on the table (your fingers). It’s not like you gathered the card in then exposed it accidentally after receiving it.

Secondly, I wouldn’t want to have to make judgement calls on such flips. Could lead to lots of endless, subjective argument. Seems easier to just say any card exposed during the deal while it’s still moving from the dealer is dead.

Thirdly, and anyway, I haven’t heard of such a distinction being in effect (let alone enforced) before.

 

[aces]

As many others have said I think that it is the dealers fault and you should have been given another card

 

[raynmanas]

i (well, used to) play at foxwoods a lot, and the dealer plainly f'd this hand up. he should have got your first card back before he dealt another card. beyond that, you got your money in good. lol live poker. nh tap tap.

 

[JustinInMN]

Would anyone have asked for another card or folded AA given that half their hand was exposed at the start of the hand? Obviously you always want to start with the best hand possible, but there's something to be said for the table not knowing what half of your holding is.

I would argue you are always better off with two concealed cards than with half of AA exposed. Playing with an exposed card almost automatically reduces your hand to bluff-catching status.

i (well, used to) play at foxwoods a lot, and the dealer plainly f'd this hand up. he should have got your first card back before he dealt another card. beyond that, you got your money in good. lol live poker. nh tap tap.

Yeah, sounds like dealer saw this card was an ace and decided to make a friendly offer to a friendly player that backfired.

Not exactly right, imo.