Was my play correct?

slisk250

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Last night we had a great game. I've never seen so many bad beats (friendly game) in a night. We saw a straight flush, AAAA, 2222, 8888. It was loose and wild with stacks going up and down all night. This was the last hand played.

I'm in the BB with AJ unsuited. A few folds and a middle position calling station raises to 25, it folds to the SB who calls. I call as well. The flop is 8J5. SB checks, I bet 50, calling station calls followed by the SB. Turn is an A. SB checks, I go with 100...call, call. You know what coming next....River is an A. No flush possibilities and I got the nuts. SB checks, I bet 50. Calling station raises to 100 (wow!). SB folds and I raise enough to put him all in. He calls and finds his 888AA is second best.

Question - I am required to raise. Right? If I call, isn't it soft play. A comment was made that I was being a bit hard and I stated I had the nuts on the river and must raise.

Am I correct or could I have called.
 

stocky

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Raise is correct. Not sure of the actual rule Dave(BGinGA) will probably come along and quote it word for word :) but you can't check or flat call as last to act (unless calling all in of course). As a real friendly atmosphere I can see justification but still don't recommend it.
 

tommythecat

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I have played a few times with my mom's group of friends and they play super soft and a lot of crazy games. The way they play is basically announcing they have the best hand by raising. It is frowned upon to bluff or not raise when you have a good hand. They don't get together to take each others money so they play this way to keep everyone in the game as long as possible. Even when you go busto you keep playing for free until you win a pot.
 

grandgnu

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Yeah, I had a similar thing happen in my home game maybe 10 years ago. Guy had the nuts, a straight flush on the river. Was checked to, he was last to act and he checked behind and showed it down. then I mention it and he said he was "trying to be nice"

If you want to "try to be nice" go play in a ball pit or a bouncy castle, this is poker son!
 

detroitdad

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Raise is correct. Not sure of the actual rule Dave(BGinGA) will probably come along and quote it word for word :) but you can't check or flat call as last to act (unless calling all in of course). As a real friendly atmosphere I can see justification but still don't recommend it.

then maybe they should play go fish, euchre, hearts, ect.....If there is money on the table I'm going to try to maximize my winnings whether its my friends, my son, my wife, by friends. Its poker.

On Friday night my buddy misread his hand and called a 100 raise from me. At show down he had nothing (PLO). Didn't feel bad as I raked in the pot (I actually had the nuts).
 

DarPodo

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I would lead with a bigger bet on the river. As played, you felted him with the nuts. It was a cooler of a hand. Just nod and say 'Poker sorry'. If anyone is really concerned that you were being too mean by raising they should either be playing much lower stakes, a limit game, or not at all.
 
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CO0LHand

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Yup, woulda done the same. The bet you made after the river was reasonable, bet and see if anyone else is interested. If you're sitting on the nuts and someone goes over you showing they have a decent hand the only move is to go over the top as hard as possible. The only other rational is not to go all-in if you think the other player has a soft hand or is bluffing and would call a bet that is short of all-in but fold if you push everything in.
 

Mental Nomad

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Being required to bet the nuts on the river is a house rule, not a universal rule. It's predominantly in place in tournaments, not so much with cash games.

The rule is there to prevent collusion and to keep tournaments from being prolonged.

Your play, however, was correct. Not harsh, just correct. Anyone who raises the river without the nuts should expect the nuts to raise back. Anyone with the nuts who is acting last will increase the bet, if they are playing poker.

It doesn't matter whether the river card made you a flush to beat his set, or a better boat to beat his boat - that's the risk he chose to run when he decided to slow play his set. Not every set needs to be slow - played, and this one did not. He could have raised the flop, since you seemed to have a hand. Also, your bet on the turn was small for the pot, and you clearly had a hand, so he should have raised then. He had ample opportunities to raise.

A friendly poker game is one where the stakes aren't too high, and you don't hold it against someone if they win. But you still expect to play poker.
 

B.C.

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Play was correct. If it was early in the night and not the last hand, I am sure it wouldn't have even been questioned.
 

BGinGA

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Nomad nailed it, and I think it's a pretty good rule.

You will rarely find a well-organized tournament that doesn't have a 'very-last-to-act-with-nuts-must-bet/raise/re-raise' clause, but the rules for cash game tables vary by card room/casino -- sometimes by a lot.
 

stocky

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