How would you play this hand? (1 Viewer)

[HughDrackman]

Playing 1/3 at a full table. Button player has been straddling since I sat down, usually $10.

SB calls, it folds around to me in LJ and I look down at :Kd: . I just call, wanting to hit a flop. The HJ calls, and button straddler checks his option.

Flop comes :

Table checks around.

Turn

Again, it checks around to me. I figure, no one wants this pot and I’ve turned an open ended straight draw. The hearts are scary, but maybe I can get some hands to fold with a bet. I go $10, and all but the SB calls.

River :Kh:

Now I have the betting lead and top pair on a very wet board.

What would you do?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Check fold

 

[chippitydoodah]

Fold out of turn
Sell chips cheap
Retire from poker

 

[bergs]

Fold out of turn

Yeah?

Sell chips cheap

Really?

Retire from poker

Mmmmmmm.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Yeah?

Really?

Mmmmmmm.

 

[JMC9389]

Fold pre.

As played, check fold to any aggression.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Playing 1/3 at a full table. Button player has been straddling since I sat down, usually $10.

SB calls, it folds around to me in LJ and I look down at :Kd: . I just fold.

Best advice I can give you. Once you're down this path, however:

Flop comes :

Table checks around.

Turn

Again, it checks around to me. I figure, no one wants this pot and I’ve turned an open ended straight draw. The hearts are scary, but maybe I can get some hands to fold with a bet. I go $10, and all but the SB calls.

River :Kh:

Now I have the betting lead and top pair on a very wet board.

What would you do?

Check and hope no one bets.

If the HJ bets and the BTN calls, fold.

If either bets and there's no intervening call, consider calling only if the bettor is an aggressive type, especially one who bluffs missed draws. But you need to know your player.

 

[DrStrange]

I am folding at every opportunity facing a bet.

Preflop deserves to be discussed. K7s is a garbage hand at a full table. hero tosses in 3bb knowing that straddles tend to get raised by someone / somehow. Is Hero planning a limp / fold line? Is he going to pay 10bb+ to see a flop? Not me. I hope hero thinks about this sort of question before he tosses in a limp.

agreeing with the flop check. hero whiffed.

Looks like five-way action - let's say $50 in the pot on the turn. Why is Hero betting $10 into $50? If Hero wants to bluff, make it scary enough to get four folds. Even an over-bet. The $10 is a waste of 3 bbs. I think checking the flop is the way to go, but I could respect a meaningful bluff. There might be good meta-game benefits from the bluff too.

River card is not good for Hero. Have to think one or more of the turn callers did so with a flush draw. Hero's hand toast. Check, planning to fold.

This sort of hand is a good example of how much blood comes from "small" leaks. 6-7bb / hr would be a respectable modest win rate. Hero burns that much on this one hand and didn't get much value from the investment. Learning not to do this will surely enhance Hero's win rate even if it diminishes the fun.

Plug the leak, enjoy the benefits -=- DrStrange

 

[HughDrackman]

River checks to me. I check, and HJ puts in a bet of $20. Folds around to me, and I weigh my options.

My thinking: HJ had already racked up his chips, and it looked like he’s about ready to leave. If anyone had called or raised, this is a snap fold. I just got the feeling he was trying to buy one last pot before he left the table.

Four hearts on the board isn’t great. I recognize that I haven’t played this hand optimally up to this point, but taking this situation in a vacuum, I don’t feel like it’s as clear cut as I’ve made it seem.

$20 isn’t very big as it relates to the pot, and I have a decent bluff catcher. I feel like I don’t have to be right too often to be profitable with a call here.

I sigh. I say, “You’ve probably got me, but I’ll pay you off,” and put in the call.

I table my hand. He looks at me like G Man looked at Robbie, shakes his head in disbelief, and mucks.

 

[JMC9389]

You got lucky. You're good there maybe only 5% of the time. Not enough that I'm calling even with good pot odds.

 

[Legend5555]

I'd spend my life studying particle physics. Discover time travel. Go back in time and slap myself and muck the hand preflop.

 

[Frogzilla]

What’s stack depth, is it short with the $10 straddle?

Pre I dunno I’m not as used to button straddle but seems like you’re guaranteed OOP so overlimp less? Raise ok fold is great limp seems -EV but not terrible.

Flop check

Turn good betting spot probably not bluffing without a heart though and never for 1/4 pot

River easy check fold three ways without some serious reads, it is not a good bluff catcher, it does not have a heart.

 

[HughDrackman]

What’s stack depth, is it short with the $10 straddle?

River easy check fold three ways without some serious reads, it is not a good bluff catcher, it does not have a heart.

1. I was at $300, and HJ was the only one who covered me.

2. I guess my thinking was, no one had a heart, or at least a strong one. HJ’s River bet smelled too much like a weak bluff, and if anyone had called or raised, I certainly would have folded. As played, I figured if the guy had a heart, he would have gone for more value. I dunno, maybe this thread is all to say - “Invite me to your meetups, everybody!”

 

[UncleMilty]

River checks to me. I check, and HJ puts in a bet of $20. Folds around to me, and I weigh my options.

My thinking: HJ had already racked up his chips, and it looked like he’s about ready to leave. If anyone had called or raised, this is a snap fold. I just got the feeling he was trying to buy one last pot before he left the table.

Four hearts on the board isn’t great. I recognize that I haven’t played this hand optimally up to this point, but taking this situation in a vacuum, I don’t feel like it’s as clear cut as I’ve made it seem.

$20 isn’t very big as it relates to the pot, and I have a decent bluff catcher. I feel like I don’t have to be right too often to be profitable with a call here.

I sigh. I say, “You’ve probably got me, but I’ll pay you off,” and put in the call.

I table my hand. He looks at me like G Man looked at Robbie, shakes his head in disbelief, and mucks.

Nice play

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

1. I was at $300, and HJ was the only one who covered me.

2. I guess my thinking was, no one had a heart, or at least a strong one. HJ’s River bet smelled too much like a weak bluff, and if anyone had called or raised, I certainly would have folded. As played, I figured if the guy had a heart, he would have gone for more value. I dunno, maybe this thread is all to say - “Invite me to your meetups, everybody!”

You led out, got 3 callers, and didn’t think any of them had a heart?

 

[HughDrackman]

You led out, got 3 callers, and didn’t think any of them had a heart?

Not after the button and SB folded. Call it a live read, call it a hunch, call it dumb luck, but I felt like the HJ was just trying to buy the pot cheaply. The other two folding made it a coin toss in my head, and I landed on call.

I’m not saying I played this hand particularly well. I should have raised pre flop, gone bigger on the turn, and kept the betting lead on the river if anyone was still in the hand. I guess I was too scared of value owning myself. Live and learn, come back a better player, rinse, and repeat.

 

[BGinGA]

Not after the button and SB folded. Call it a live read, call it a hunch, call it dumb luck, but I felt like the HJ was just trying to buy the pot cheaply. The other two folding made it a coin toss in my head, and I landed on call.

I’m not saying I played this hand particularly well. I should have raised pre flop, gone bigger on the turn, and kept the betting lead on the river if anyone was still in the hand. I guess I was too scared of value owning myself. Live and learn, come back a better player, rinse, and repeat.

I don't think you learned anything. If you had, your response would have been:

I’m not saying I played this hand particularly well. I should have raised folded pre flop, gone bigger on the turn, and kept the betting lead on the river if anyone was still in the hand.

 

[ngmcs8203]

If you are playing this from the LoJack why aren’t you raising pre?

 

[HughDrackman]

I don't think you learned anything. If you had, your response would have been: I’m not saying I played this hand particularly well. I should have raised folded
[/b]

If you are playing this from the LoJack why aren’t you raising pre?

 

[JustinInMN]

Playing 1/3 at a full table. Button player has been straddling since I sat down, usually $10.

SB calls, it folds around to me in LJ and I look down at :Kd: . I just call, wanting to hit a flop. The HJ calls, and button straddler checks his option.

Flop comes :

Table checks around.

Turn

Again, it checks around to me. I figure, no one wants this pot and I’ve turned an open ended straight draw. The hearts are scary, but maybe I can get some hands to fold with a bet. I go $10, and all but the SB calls.

River :Kh:

Now I have the betting lead and top pair on a very wet board.

What would you do?

I don't mind the stab on the turn on this spot, but if you get called, it's very likely it's by a single heart.

If you are last to act and the river has been checked to you, checking behind and going to showdown seems clear. Nothing weaker thank Kx is going to call this river and I assume a heart that called the turn isn't going to fold the river after completing a flush.

This isn't a hard that lends itself to two pair holdings in your opponents hands given they would have had to call the turn without a pair and no heart and rivered a king. Or they already had a small two pair on the turn and didn't bet into a checked pot? (Unlikely) So I don't think there's any reason to turn your one pair into a bluff either.

So bottom line, a bet on the river is totally defeated, nothing weaker will call and nothing stronger will fold.

Check behind. You might occasionally win a showdown if someone called the turn with like an 87 or 76 with no hearts. But if you bet this river you will never be called when you are ahead and you will lose the bet when you are beat. To bet is all risk and no reward.

 

[JustinInMN]

Four hearts on the board isn’t great. I recognize that I haven’t played this hand optimally up to this point, but taking this situation in a vacuum, I don’t feel like it’s as clear cut as I’ve made it seem.

Actually I would argue that other than preflop, you have played this hand very well.

$20 isn’t very big as it relates to the pot, and I have a decent bluff catcher. I feel like I don’t have to be right too often to be profitable with a call here.

It's an interesting data point that the early position player folded to button's bet. This actually puts you in a polarizing spot.

Now by my count it's 20 to call and win 93 (though I am not sure of the rake situation in this game) but you probably have to be good about 23% of the time for this to show a profit.

Because you are last to act before the bettor, I think this puts the call in the player dependent category and you took a read. Now if there was anyone left to act between you and the button, I think it's an obvious fold, or if the early position player had called, this is an obvious fold.

I get where the others are coming from too that even though you have found the best case scenario action-wise, folding may still be the best play long term.

But I think you took a read and decided. There is something to be said for that too.

And I will point out, you made more money by playing it this way than you would have bluffing the river.

 

[ngmcs8203]

View attachment 1251711

Sounds like my buddy who regularly complains about his big pairs cracked by weaker preflop hands yet he refuses to raise or 3! them.

 

[springbox]

I would fold pre. If I hadn't I would probably look to check/fold every street. Bluffing 4-ways with very little equity (OESD not that great on the turn) is suspect. The river call is whatever, I expect him to have a flush the vast majority of the time, but $20 into $90 gives you decent odds if he ever bluffs here. But it also doesn't make much sense for him to bluff with no heart with 3 other people still in the hand.

 

[4SUMERZ]

Playing K-7, even suited is not the best move, but after the flop, with no diamonds, it's an easy fold...once the 4th heart comes, it's an auto fold.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Nits, all of you! K7 is bottom of range from the LJ but still a raising hand if you play it. This is a $30-35 preflop raise or a fold if your a PCF nit.

 

[JustinInMN]

Nits, all of you! K7 is bottom of range from the LJ but still a raising hand if you play it. This is a $30-35 preflop raise or a fold if your a PCF nit.

I'm not opening for $30 in a 1-3 game. But yes, I think this is a fine hand open-raise when first in from the lojack. I would be folding this any earlier of if anyone had limped or raised before my turn, however.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I'm not opening for $30 in a 1-3 game. But yes, I think this is a fine hand open-raise when first in from the lojack. I would be folding this any earlier of if anyone had limped or raised before my turn, however.

A $10 straddle would make this a raise of $10x2.5(orx3)+3+1

 

[JustinInMN]

A $10 straddle would make this a raise of $10x2.5(orx3)+3+1

Oh shoot, forgot about the button straddle yet to act, this is an old thread .

But yes, point well taken, in light of the button straddle, a $30-$35 open sizing makes perfectly fine sense.

That said, the dynamic is a little different when the button straddle is yet to act compared to a conventional blind steal situation when K7s is certainly good enough. In a conventional blind steal, the players with money out will be out of position post flop, which definitely compensates a great deal even when the raiser would get called by a better hand.

When raising to steal a button straddle, the button will obviously have position post-flop, which very much diminishes the value of the weaker stealing hands such as K7s. I at the very least think it's a go-either-way situation, maybe not a clear fold, but not a nitty fold either. It would be a nitty fold in a conventional blind-steal situation for sure.

All that said, I think everyone in the thread has it right that calling is the worst of all worlds preflop with this hand. Hero is guaranteeing the worst position against a random two cards on the button while holding a hand that will carry a lot of post-flop uncertainty. Flopping a K or 7 may or may not be good. A flush draw or a bluffing opportunity are the best bets to emerge from out of position with a winner. Raising at least gives hero the chance to win right away, or at least have some idea what button might have if button calls.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Oh shoot, forgot about the button straddle yet to act, this is an old thread .

But yes, point well taken, in light of the button straddle, a $30-$35 open sizing makes perfectly fine sense.

That said, the dynamic is a little different when the button straddle is yet to act compared to a conventional blind steal situation when K7s is certainly good enough. In a conventional blind steal, the players with money out will be out of position post flop, which definitely compensates a great deal even when the raiser would get called by a better hand.

When raising to steal a button straddle, the button will obviously have position post-flop, which very much diminishes the value of the weaker stealing hands such as K7s. I at the very least think it's a go-either-way situation, maybe not a clear fold, but not a nitty fold either. It would be a nitty fold in a conventional blind-steal situation for sure.

All that said, I think everyone in the thread has it right that calling is the worst of all worlds preflop with this hand. Hero is guaranteeing the worst position against a random two cards on the button while holding a hand that will carry a lot of post-flop uncertainty. Flopping a K or 7 may or may not be good. A flush draw or a bluffing opportunity are the best bets to emerge from out of position with a winner. Raising at least gives hero the chance to win right away, or at least have some idea what button might have if button calls.

Yep. Agree that’s why I think you can argue a fold preflop. You’re right about being OOP. I might make it $40-45 in that situation. Even if it means having to play a post-flop game with the hand. I don’t mind playing heads-up against a gambler who straddles 3.5x, but I’d rather be deep to play that game. Otherwise it starts becoming shove or fold soon after.

 

[Corvarea]

I would check hoping to just see a showdown but if someone bets i would be looking to check raise 4x the amount of the bet.