Tourney Tournament Rebuy and Add Ons

[MeridianFC]

Just curious how folks here work these in their games. I currently allow one Rebuy (buy in amount for same starting stack) if you've been felted. I allow one add on (buy in amount for same starting stack) at anytime, noting that if someone is stupid enough to do that when that equals 2 big bets, well that's your prerogative. I know some folks have hard cut offs for the timing or do add ons for a lesser amount than the buyin, etc. etc. Just wanted to see what other people were doing and why.

 

[atomiktoaster]

No rebuys or add-ons here. I've always worried about it penalizing weaker players too much for the social type low stakes game we run. Two turbos in one night is our usual format. There's guys that expect to be felted at the end of the night who would rather have two chances from a second tournament where the playing field is reset than to have to fight back while already short stacked and a little tilted. I think the math supports that sentiment, too (higher EV from a second tournament than a rebuy). My tournament set still has enough chips for multiple rebuys per player, of course. #it'sadisease

 

[links_slayer]

I don't host re-buy/add-on tourneys mainly because my regular crew doesn't like them.

I have no problem playing in tourneys that offer them or playing in tourneys that do.

 

[detroitdad]

If we have rebuys, we usually allow 1 rebuy before the break (120 minute's in ), rebuy is full stack, full price.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Pro: re-buy lets someone who had an early stroke of bad luck get back in the game. An early bust-out can suck, especially if you've traveled far to a game, and there's no side-games playing for cash or anything. Bigger games usually have side games.

Con: there is some extra advantage for the skilled. Pretty much anything that adds an option gives more advantage to those skilled enough to know when it's best used. The advantage of extra chips is generally ameliorated by the fact that they pay for them, and the fact that unless they're bought very early, you're buying very few blinds.

In a home single-table tourney, the person most likely to rebuy badly (late) is the amateur - they're more likely to bust out, and then more likely to try to get back in by rebuying even if the blinds have moved on. That's one I prefer turbos with no rebuys - with turbos, the next game is soon enough to wait for. Alternately, if not turbo and there's a rebuy, I like to strictly limit it to the first blind level. That allows an early bust-out to avoid twiddling their thumbs for well over an hour, while it prevents a donk from buying in over and over for twenty big blinds, only to be broke when the second game finally starts.

 

[slisk250]

We do it two ways

If you get knocked out early, you can buy back in at the break, full cash and full chips. In addition, at the same time, any live player could add-on at full cash and chips again. All rebuy/add-ons at the break.

The other way is unlimited rebuys until the break if you bust. Full cash and chips.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I like the idea of limiting it to the first break, because it keeps a donk from multiple rebuys. Also, if many bust out early, they can decide to not rebuy, so that the next game can come more quickly, or to start a side game. Otherwise, the "only person out" is very tempted to buy back in, and no side game can get going...

 

[72o]

If we do a tourney, then no rebuys or add-ons. But we do have cash game going for those busted out. This system works best for my crew.

 

[dp68094]

For Rebuy and Add-on tournaments, my favorite format by far is 20 minute levels with unlimited half-stack rebuys for players who bust-out within the first hour (conclusion of level 3). I also allow one half-stack add-on to everyone at the end of the first hour. Then freeze-out play till the end. This format allows inexperienced players to stay in the game for at least the first hour, as well as the hard-luck pro's, but does not give any real advantage over the grinders. The single add-on at the break, allows any short-stacks to get a little help, but also the pro's (who have earned it) usually have enough chips at this point to forego the add-on. This format also gets the overall prize-pool bigger. As a side-note The payout structure is 50/30/20 of the initial buy-ins for a regular 10-person tourney and all the re-buys and add-ons go entirely to first place... try it out!

 

[atomiktoaster]

Half stack, half price, or half stack, full price?

For Rebuy and Add-on tournaments, my favorite format by far is 20 minute levels with unlimited half-stack rebuys for players who bust-out within the first hour (conclusion of level 3). I also allow one half-stack add-on to everyone at the end of the first hour. Then freeze-out play till the end. This format allows inexperienced players to stay in the game for at least the first hour, as well as the hard-luck pro's, but does not give any real advantage over the grinders. The single add-on at the break, allows any short-stacks to get a little help, but also the pro's (who have earned it) usually have enough chips at this point to forego the add-on. This format also gets the overall prize-pool bigger. As a side-note The payout structure is 50/30/20 of the initial buy-ins for a regular 10-person tourney and all the re-buys and add-ons go entirely to first place... try it out!

 

[Whiteside]

I play a double chance tournament. Everyone gets half their chips up front and the other half after 90 minutes, or sooner if they bust out. It's a social game and ensures that no-one sits watching for hours.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Nice twist...

 

[links_slayer]

I play a double chance tournament. Everyone gets half their chips up front and the other half after 90 minutes, or sooner if they bust out. It's a social game and ensures that no-one sits watching for hours.

I am going to try this next time I host a tourney. Thanks for sharing

 

[acl1904]

I play a double chance tournament. Everyone gets half their chips up front and the other half after 90 minutes, or sooner if they bust out. It's a social game and ensures that no-one sits watching for hours.

Interesting approach. We usually allow one re-buy prior to the break so no one is sitting just watching in addition to add ons. Might have to pitch this at our next game.

 

[BGinGA]

We run a variety of single- and multiple-table tournament formats, ranging from freeze-outs (no re-buys or add-ons) to events with multiple re-buys/add-ons, and pretty much everything in-between. Below is a list of some of the more common re-buy/add-on variations (relative entry costs and stack sizes shown for comparison purposes). Most of the events are designed to run about 4-5 hours total time for two tables:

1. 10K stack buy-in with re-buy chip: full-stack re-buys allowed for first hour if broke, player can redeem unused re-buy chip for a free 2K add-on.
2. 10K stack buy-in ($40): unlimited 1/2-stack re-buys ($20) allowed for first hour if stack drops below 5K (primarily used for Omaha and pot-limit events).
3. 20K buy-in ($40) with re-buy chip: 10K re-buys ($20) for first hour, optional 5K add-on ($10) and free 5K add-on with unused re-buy chip
4. 5K buy-in ($20): unlimited $20 re-buys for first two hours if broke, optional $10 add-on at two-hour mark.
5. 10K stack buy-in with re-buy chip: full-stack re-buys if broke allowed for duration of tournament. Unused re-buy chip can be optionally redeemed at 1.5 hour mark for free 2K add-on, or can be retained for full re-buy usage later. Particularly interesting re-buy/add-on strategy involved for league events towards end of season.

We also typically offer bonus starting chips (~15%) for paid-in-seat and optional dealer tokes, so those 10K starting stacks usually contain 11,500 chips.

This year, our premier tournament series features a 30K chip buy-in, which is divided into three 10K mini-stacks. Players can opt to start with 10K, 20K, or 30K in chips, and are issued a pre-buy chip for every 10K mini-stack they choose to initially leave out of play. Players may redeem a pre-buy chip for another 10K mini-stack anytime between hands, regardless of their current stack size. An optional 15K add-on purchase is available after six levels, at which time all unused pre-buy chips are also redeemed. It has definitely added additional strategy decisions to the game.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I sometimes do "prebuy" tourneys, where one buy in gets each player their starting stack plus a rebuy chip. If they bust in the first two hours, they get another stack. Those who don't need the rebuy get it as an add-on at the two hour mark.

 

[MeridianFC]

1. 10K stack buy-in with re-buy chip: full-stack re-buys allowed for first hour if broke, player can redeem unused re-buy chip for a free 2K add-on.

This year, our premier tournament series features a 30K chip buy-in, which is divided into three 10K mini-stacks. Players can opt to start with 10K, 20K, or 30K in chips, and are issued a pre-buy chip for every 10K mini-stack they choose to initially leave out of play. Players may redeem a pre-buy chip for another 10K mini-stack anytime between hands, regardless of their current stack size. An optional 15K add-on purchase is available after six levels, at which time all unused pre-buy chips are also redeemed. It has definitely added additional strategy decisions to the game.

These two twists are very intriguing.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

 

[MikesDad]

I allow one rebuy per person before the first break at the end of the 5th level -- full buy-in, full chipstack
This allows those who bust early to get back in, but the tourney doesn't get crazy or go on forever as it might with unlimited rebuys
Also a great reason to get some rebuy chips

I also just started allowing late entries up to the first break as well -- full stack, full entry fee. Figure a late entry is basically like a rebuy

 

[kirchhausen]

I allow one rebuy per person before the first break at the end of the 5th level -- full buy-in, full chipstack
This allows those who bust early to get back in, but the tourney doesn't get crazy or go on forever as it might with unlimited rebuys
Also a great reason to get some rebuy chips

I also just started allowing late entries up to the first break as well -- full stack, full entry fee. Figure a late entry is basically like a rebuy

Do you let late entries rebuy? Asking for a friend...

 

[Bloody Marvelous]

I've done several different variations, all of which have already been mentioned. So nothing really new here...

- Unlimited rebuys until first break (= 4 levels = 2 hours), starting stacks for buy-in money when felted. These are usually shortstack tournaments (50BB) with low buy-ins. Lets people go crazy for the first few levels.
- 1R + 1A: 1 Rebuy (starting stack for buy-in money) until first break when felted, 1 Add-on to all players at first break (1.5x starting stack for buy-in money)
- Double/Triple chance: Issue each player 1/2 or 1/3 starting stack, and one or two add-on chips which can be used at any time until first break (no qualifiers). Any unused add-on chips are redeemed at first break. To make sure that 1/2 or 1/3 starting stack is playable for the first 4 levels these are usually deepstack tournaments.

The Double/Triple chance is particularly useful when playing action games like PLO.

 

[MikesDad]

Do you let late entries rebuy? Asking for a friend...

Sure... I guess my wording was a bit vague.. I meant that a late entry is like a rebuy in the sense that they get full chip stack unlike some casinos that remove chips from a later entry stack.. not that a late entry was considered a rebuy

A late entry can rebuy just like any other entry

 

[Richard Cranium]

I've played regularly with three different groups that were running tourneys in a league type setting. Each of them had basically the same setup of unlimited rebuys for first hour (3x 20 min levels). There were some exceptions to no rebuys when a different format would be introduced, like a deep stack with longer levels that might get played once a year, or the end of year tourney which each league had setup slightly differently from the others. But almost always 20 min levels with rebuys for the first 3 levels.

I'm kind of interested in the idea that some of you say that you don't run rebuys because you have gotten feedback that your players don't care for them compared to freeze-outs. Each of the groups I played in have dwindled in participation over the past few years to the point where two of them have ceased to exist. I think part of that was the gradual decline of the poker boom, guys realizing they were always on the worst of it side, some of it was several poker rooms have opened up in the area.

Lately I've been trying to get a game going again, but without much success. I'm curious if I shouldn't be advertising a tourney with rebuys? I always liked it because if I drove an hour or so to play a game, I knew I had that failsafe in case of a cooler in the first hour. But I also use it sometimes to play much looser for that first hour and try to gain a stack, depending on how the table is playing. I don't mind trading a buyin for a chance at a large stack. I could see how that type of play might bother others.

Anyway, I am wondering since I'm trying to get a monthly game going again, if I should go no rebuy format. Something to ask at the next game - if I can get a quorum .

 

[dp68094]

To the earlier comment about the cost our half-stack, Half-stack is half-price.... you already are at a disadvantage getting back in when the average chip stack is 2x greater, and that seems fair to all the players who worked to get there. Charging full price for a half-stack seems a bit rough!

 

[CO0LHand]

Thanks everyone for the input here, there are some really neat ideas.

I do what most people here talk about where we have unlimited full price buy ins allowed the first 4 levels (2 hrs) then nothing after that. It keeps people who tried something big and busted to stick around although the blinds are usually higher when they rebuy. I have add-ons allowed at the 2hr break in the "Main Event" tournament we hold but that's the only time. I am working on getting a league going so I try to keep it a very friendly game but after a year or two might start implementing more variable options like some of those mentioned here. I also hope to someday have enough people showing up to facilitate a cash game on the side for those knocked out or those who don't like playing tournaments. Some really cool ideas here.

 

[BGinGA]

re: players who don't like re-buy tournaments

I've found that most players (certainly applies to nearly all of our players) that dislike re-buy tournaments in general tend to fall into one of three categories: inexperienced newcomers, tightwads/misers/thrifty/cheap/frugal/economically-disadvantaged (none meant in a bad or derogatory sense), and solid experienced players who also play very tight (nut peddlers). Loose-aggressive players typically seem to like them just fine.

I've also found that those same players rarely (if ever) complain about a re-buy tournament provided that two controls are in place: 1) re-buys are limited to one per player, and 2) an unused re-buy chip has some value for those who did not use it to re-buy.

The most common valuation we use is a free add-on at the end of the re-buy period (typically 20%-25% of a starting stack) for an unused re-buy chip. A side benefit is that it also tends to slow down the frequency of bust-outs/re-buys towards the end of the re-buy period, since the re-buy chip is no longer a use-it-or-lose-it deal. And giving it even more value (50% of starting stack, for example) tends to slow down early manic play and the accompanying bust-outs/re-buys (a common complaint against re-buy events) while still maintaining the underlying value of a re-buy mechanism itself (second-chance protection against a early bad beat or cooler hand situation).