Tourney Thoughts please on blinds... (1 Viewer)

[Wils]

HI folks

I'm toying with the idea of a blinds structure starting at 125/250. It would look like the structure below - smallest chip is 25, starting stack 25k, 100 big blinds. 8 players, 3.5 hours approx, 20 minute blinds, estiamted finish at the 5,000 - 10,000 level.

I've designed it so that the blinds increases are a fairly steady 40-ish percent, only going up to 50% at the later levels to avoid having smaller chips in play for longer than necessary.

Waddya think? Stupid idea or cunning and ingenious thinking-outside-the-box coolness? Personally I like it, but if I get eight thousand responses here saying "START AT 250? WTF ARE YOU THINKING?" I'll reconsider


125 - 250
175 - 350
250 - 500
350 - 700
colour up 25's if required
500 - 1,000
700 - 1,400
colour up 100's if required
1,000 - 2,000
1,500 - 3,000
2,000 - 4,500 (note non-standard small blind)
3,500 - 7,000
colour up 500's if required
5,000 - 10,000
7,000 - 14,000
10,000 - 20,000

 

[JTBass]

Personally, i'd do this. I would not bother with the 25 chip if your starting stack is 25k, and you want to have roughly 100 bind blinds to start. 15min blind levels. Your jumps later on turn this into a shove fest in my opinion. This puts it roughly 4 hours long, but probably your heads up somewhere around round 14-15. If you want 20min blinds I would keep the structure, drop the starting stack to 20K.

100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1k
600/1.2k
800/1.6k
color up 100's
1k/2k
1.5k/3k
2k/4k
2.5k/5k
color up 500's
3k/6k
4k/8k
5k/10k

 

[BGinGA]

HI folks

I'm toying with the idea of a blinds structure starting at 125/250. It would look like the structure below - smallest chip is 25, starting stack 25k, 100 big blinds. 8 players, 3.5 hours approx, 20 minute blinds, estiamted finish at the 5,000 - 10,000 level.

I've designed it so that the blinds increases are a fairly steady 40-ish percent, only going up to 50% at the later levels to avoid having smaller chips in play for longer than necessary.

Waddya think? Stupid idea or cunning and ingenious thinking-outside-the-box coolness? Personally I like it, but if I get eight thousand responses here saying "START AT 250? WTF ARE YOU THINKING?" I'll reconsider


125 - 250
175 - 350
250 - 500
350 - 700
colour up 25's if required
500 - 1,000
700 - 1,400
colour up 100's if required
1,000 - 2,000
1,500 - 3,000
2,000 - 4,500 (note non-standard small blind)
3,500 - 7,000
colour up 500's if required
5,000 - 10,000
7,000 - 14,000
10,000 - 20,000

I think it's reasonable for a short 100BB structure with 45% average blind level increases. Expected maximum run-time is around 3:40 plus breaks for 8 x T25K stacks and 20-minute levels.

I'd probably make the following minor adjustments to levels 8-12:

lvl sb bb
L1 125 250
L2 175 350
L3 250 500
L4 350 700
remove T25 chips
L5 500 1000
L6 700 1400
L7 1000 2000
L8 1400 2800
remove T100 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 4500 9000 ***
L12 6500 13000
remove T500 chips
L13 10000 20000
L14 15000 30000

Results in a 41-43% average blind increase using alternating 40% and 43% increases (and two 50% jumps at the end, which you will likely never see), and uniform color-up intervals. Same expected run-time as your structure, but with a little smoother progression.

 

[Wils]

Personally, i'd do this. I would not bother with the 25 chip if your starting stack is 25k, and you want to have roughly 100 bind blinds to start. 15min blind levels. Your jumps later on turn this into a shove fest in my opinion. This puts it roughly 4 hours long, but probably your heads up somewhere around round 14-15. If you want 20min blinds I would keep the structure, drop the starting stack to 20K.

I'm purposely trying to avoid what I see as illogical increases - for example your level 2 is 100% higher than level 1, but level 3 is only 50% more than level 2, and level 4 is only 33% higher than level 3. Okay - the actual blind increments are constant (100) - and that's standard for most blind structures - but the blind increase percentages aren't.

I think it's reasonable for a short 100BB structure with 45% average blind level increases. Expected maximum run-time is around 3:40 plus breaks for 8 x T25K stacks and 20-minute levels.

I'd probably make the following minor adjustments to levels 8-12:

Results in a 41-43% average blind increase using alternating 40% and 43% increases (and two 50% jumps at the end, which you will likely never see), and uniform color-up intervals. Same expected run-time as your structure, but with a little smoother progression.

Yeah I like those changes. I'll run with this on Friday. Maybe film the reactions when people see the first blind level

Thanks to you both for helping.

 

[Wils]

Tried it last night, it actually worked really well! I came second, so that helped of course

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think you're overthinking the importance of even level increases. Blinds go up. Game ends within a certain window of time. 100% jumps are acceptable, particularly in the earliest stages of the game, or when you have reached GTFO-o'clock. What is less acceptable are blind increases that leave people wondering what the next blind level will be.

I would be comfortable playing in a game using JT's structure. While the jumps are not even percentage increases, they are typical, and thus predictable. If I had to think "what is the next 45% increase" then my mind is being taken off the game itself, and giving the host a minor advantage.

Oh look - you took 2nd. Enjoy that advantage. (n) :thumbsdown:

 

[Wils]

Oh look - you took 2nd. Enjoy that advantage. (n) :thumbsdown:

Sourpuss

The first thirteen or so blind levels are clearly posted on all walls (realistically it shouldn't ever get past 13) and even emailed out in a fact sheet flyer before the game, so yeah, it's predictable if you understand what numbers mean/and/or can read. The TD software also shows what the next blind level is so once again, there shouldn't be any confusion.

Oh yeah and I came second because someone hit their river 2 outer - twice. (when we were all in)

 

[BGinGA]

I would be comfortable playing in a game using JT's structure. While the jumps are not even percentage increases, they are typical, and thus predictable.

Adding a 1200/2400 level to JT's structure would make it quite acceptable, logical, and predictable.....although there is no rational reason to cut starting stacks in half after just 15 minutes of play (with a 100% blind increase) -- an action that essentially makes the entire first level pointless. That 15-minutes of play is better used elsewhere in the structure.

However, as posted, it does not meet the requirements as stated in the OP.

 

[Wils]

Oh look - you took 2nd. Enjoy that advantage. (n) :thumbsdown:

I'll assume you said that when you were tired or irritable and wasn't implying I was trying to fix the game in my favour. That would be a dick move for either of us.

The entire point of what I was aiming for was to make it fairer for everyone, with no nasty jumps.

ETA: out of all the people I know who host, I'm the only one who posts the blinds schedules up so everyone knows what's coming.

I think you're overthinking...

Absolutely 100% correct.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'll assume you said that when you were tired or irritable and wasn't thing to imply I was trying to fix the game in my favour. That would be a dick move for either of us.

The entire point of what I was aiming for was to make it fairer for everyone, with no nasty jumps.

ETA: out of all the people I know who host, I'm the only one who posts the blinds schedules up so everyone knows what's coming.



Absolutely 100% correct.

Yeah. it was 4:09 am I shouldn't post that early...
I apologize.

Adding a 1200/2400 level to JT's structure would make it quite acceptable, logical, and predictable.....although there is no rational reason to cut starting stacks in half after just 15 minutes of play (with a 100% blind increase) -- an action that essentially makes the entire first level pointless. That 15-minutes of play is better used elsewhere in the structure.

The rational plan for early level 100% jumps...
It allows players that like to limp into every pot a chance to do just that early in a tournament. that first level is "pointless" to you (or other highly skilled players) perhaps, but it is the bread and butter levels for sub-optimum players. So let them have their fun. Perhaps they will limp to a straight flush with 5-7 suited, just like James Bond did. The point being, if you want to host a 100 BB tournament, but want to let the social players play for a while, you need to give them a lot of limping chips. Then make them irrelevant early enough so your 100 BB tournament still has enough time to take place in your allotted time-slot.

 

[BGinGA]

The rational plan for early level 100% jumps...
It allows players that like to limp into every pot a chance to do just that early in a tournament. that first level is "pointless" to you (or other highly skilled players) perhaps, but it is the bread and butter levels for sub-optimum players. So let them have their fun. Perhaps they will limp to a straight flush with 5-7 suited, just like James Bond did. The point being, if you want to host a 100 BB tournament, but want to let the social players play for a while, you need to give them a lot of limping chips. Then make them irrelevant early enough so your 100 BB tournament still has enough time to take place in your allotted time-slot.

^^ Great rationale for starting with a large number of BB in the starting stacks.

Zero relevance regarding using 100% blind increases.

 

[Mojo1312]

IMO, there is a simpler way of achieving your aim of consistent blind increases by reducing the length of levels to 18 minutes.
I have placed the two blind structures side by side for your comparison. (Note: you are at the 3000/6000 level with both structures after 3 hours of play.)

lvl sb bb
L1 100/200 125 250
L2 100/300 175 350
L3 200/400 250 500
L4 300/600 350 700
remove T25 chips
L5 400/800 500/1000
L6 600/1200 700 1400
L7 800/1600 1000 2000
L8 1100/2200 1400 2800
remove T100 chips ---->
L9 1500/3000 2000 4000
L10 2000/4000 3000 6000
L11 3000/6000 4500 9000 ***
L12 4000/8000 6500 13000
remove T500 chips
L13 6000/12000 10000 20000
L14 8000/16000 15000 30000


This eliminates the T25 chip as well as the non-traditional blind levels, which means less time spent cutting out and stacking chips.

Another added efficiency, you can eliminate both the T100 and T500 chips after the 10th level if you schedule your breaks every 90 minutes.

 

[Wils]

The aim of the exercise was to get the percentage increases roughly the same. I'm happy that I can get a "normal" structure without any issue. That said, thanks for responding - different blind structures to play about with are always welcome!