Things That Are Bullsh*t (17 Viewers)

kirchhausen said:
having to wait 5 more years (at least) to watch the U.S. in a World Cup
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Chippy McChiperson said:
It was a perfect storm of bad luck and bad play that took us out (T&T's two goals being a worldie and an own goal, and Honduras' second goal bouncing off the crossbar/keeper and in) but we never should have even put ourselves in this situation. We knew Mexico and Costa Rica wouldn't do us any favors. If we get even1 point at home from Mexico/Costa Rica earlier in the hex this is avoided.

Pulisic aside, there is a dearth of soccer talent in the U.S. at the national team level, and this needs to be addressed in a major way. It's long time since Gulati should have been fired. With the decrease in youths participating in football, there is a vacuum now that soccer can fill, and this World Cup would have been a great opportunity to influence a new generation to pick up a great sport. I'm worried this opportunity will now be lost.
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It absolutely sucks the US is out of the World Cup... What a bummer... Truth be told though, the CONCACAF is by far the easiest region to get a quifilying spot... And even with that, we screwed up... Total bullshit for sure...

After so many years of "development", our national team should be much, much better than what's been... Honestly, I'm not sure where the bottle neck is... Given the amount of young americans playing soccer, talent shouldn't be hard to form a decent team... Yet, it indeed is...

It just breaks my heart... Oh well... If Argy had stayed out also, it would be almost a killer for me... World cup without the US and Argy would be bullshit squared.
 
ChaosRock said:
It absolutely sucks the US is out of the World Cup... What a bummer... Truth be told though, the CONCACAF is by far the easiest region to get a quifilying spot... And even with that, we screwed up... Total bullshit for sure...

After so many years of "development", our national team should be much, much better than what's been... Honestly, I'm not sure where the bottle neck is... Given the amount of young americans playing soccer, talent shouldn't be hard to form a decent team... Yet, it indeed is...

It just breaks my heart... Oh well... If Argy had stayed out also, it would be almost a killer for me... World cup without the US and Argy would be bullshit squared.
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I'd guess a large majority of American sports fans just don't care, and I'd also guess that's part of the problem. If more people cared, I'd guess there wold be more pressure, more money, and better results. I can only guess though, because I don't care. I believe soccer belongs in this thread.
 
upNdown said:
I'd guess a large majority of American sports fans just don't care, and I'd also guess that's part of the problem. If more people cared, I'd guess there wold be more pressure, more money, and better results. I can only guess though, because I don't care. I believe soccer belongs in this thread.
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You don't care but yet, you decided to grace us with your ignorance...

One has all the right in the world to hate soccer, or hate anything at all, really... But coming in just to say it sucks when we are commiserating being out of the world cup shows a ton about what you're all about... Not that we needed, really...

And just to clarify, when I say ignorance, it's not because you dislike soccer, as I said, it is just a matter of taste, no discussion there... Ignorance referred to 1-Thinking we are not developing because of lack of fans and 2-Posting something just negative without contributing shit for the subject.
 
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ChaosRock said:
You don't care but yet, you decided to grace us with your ignorance...

One has all the right in the world to hate soccer, or hate anything at all, really... But coming in just to say it sucks when we are commiserating being out of the world cup shows a ton about what you're all about... Not that we needed, really...

And just to clarify, when I say ignorance, it's not because you dislike soccer, as I said, it is just a matter of taste, no discussion there... Ignorance referred to 1-Thinking we are not developing because of lack of fans and 2-Posting something just negative without contributing shit for the subject.
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Let's be clear, this discussion is happening on the "bullshit" thread, so I don't think my comment was completely inappropriate. And I didn't mean to say you weren't developing because of a lack of fans, I meant to say you might develop faster if you had more fans - subtle difference, but it is a difference.
I know it's an uphill battle for your sport, in America. And for whatever it's worth, I have tried. I've been to an MLS game and a World Cup game. But like you say, it's a matter of taste.
 
ChaosRock said:
And just to clarify, when I say ignorance, it's not because you dislike soccer, as I said, it is just a matter of taste, no discussion there... Ignorance referred to 1-Thinking we are not developing because of lack of fans...
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If the developmental issues are not due to a lack of fans/eyes/ad-sponsorship dollars, then what is causing the problem?

Not trying to stir the pot, just truly curious from a management/growth/general-sports-fan perspective. I dig sports, so I just wanna know what's up with US Soccer.
 
justsomedude said:
If the developmental issues are not due to a lack of fans/eyes/ad-sponsorship dollars, then what is causing the problem?

Not trying to stir the pot, just truly curious from a sports-management standpoint.
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Look at the US medals in the Olympics, both summer and winter... See how many spots we dominate or at least are world class... And then tell me how many true fans those sports we have...

The issue IMO opinion, is that the best athletes in many countries only have soccer to rely on... Here in the US, there's a ton of other options for athletes... Soccer might be the 5th more popular sport in US and it's number 1 is most countries around the world... That might be one of the problems... But it's definitely a complex issue...
 
ChaosRock said:
Look at the US medals in the Olympics, both summer and winter... See how many spots we dominate or at least are world class... And then tell me how many true fans those sports we have...

The issue IMO opinion, is that the best athletes in many countries only have soccer to rely on... Here in the US, there's a ton of other options for athletes... Soccer might be the 5th more popular sport in US and it's number 1 is most countries around the world... That might be one of the problems... But it's definitely a complex issue...
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Well... and wasn't US Soccer really GOOD... at least for a short while? Again, I don't know much about it, but do remember seeing blips on the news here and there some moons ago.
 
justsomedude said:
Well... and wasn't US Soccer really GOOD... at least for a short while? Again, I don't know much about it, but do remember seeing blips on the news here and there some moons ago.
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Honestly, no... It was NEVER really good, LOL!!!! IMO of course... Third tier at best...

Edit: Made a terrible mistake above. I was talking only about the men's national team. The women's team has been world class for more than 2 decades.
 
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1) lawyers
2) politicians
3) insurance companies
4) terrorists

That list is my consistent top 4, though it is in no particular order at present. They have all been number 1 at some point.
 
ChaosRock said:
You don't care but yet, you decided to grace us with your ignorance...

One has all the right in the world to hate soccer, or hate anything at all, really... But coming in just to say it sucks when we are commiserating being out of the world cup shows a ton about what you're all about... Not that we needed, really...

And just to clarify, when I say ignorance, it's not because you dislike soccer, as I said, it is just a matter of taste, no discussion there... Ignorance referred to 1-Thinking we are not developing because of lack of fans and 2-Posting something just negative without contributing shit for the subject.
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Sadly, I think a "lack of fans" is a part of the bottleneck preventing the US from building a dominant team. Our "best" athletes are drawn to the bigger-money sports. College teams - that step between school games and the pros - spend a fortune scouting, finding, developing, coaching, training Football and Baseball players, but soccer is left to Lacross type money.

While other countries don't have US money, they don't have anyone skimming the best of their talent pool either.

I hate that soccer is such a back-burner sport in this country. It feels like any time other countries get good at a sport, the US simply doesn't care (soccer, F1, and tennis included)
 
FDLmold said:
1) lawyers
2) politicians
3) insurance companies
4) terrorists

That list is my consistent top 4, though it is in no particular order at present. They have all been number 1 at some point.
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Is this what's wrong with US soccer?

Um seriously though, if you look at the definition of these four things they all rely on fear to get you to change your behavior.
 
Poker Zombie said:
Sadly, I think a "lack of fans" is a part of the bottleneck preventing the US from building a dominant team. Our "best" athletes are drawn to the bigger-money sports. College teams - that step between school games and the pros - spend a fortune scouting, finding, developing, coaching, training Football and Baseball players, but soccer is left to Lacross type money.

While other countries don't have US money, they don't have anyone skimming the best of their talent pool either.

I hate that soccer is such a back-burner sport in this country. It feels like any time other countries get good at a sport, the US simply doesn't care (soccer, F1, and tennis included)
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My last post on the subject. just don't want to derail the "bullshit" thread... ;)

As I responded to JSD, there are countless sports which the US dominates, sports with minuscule fan base... The relationship between number of fans and dominance is not always there... Would soccer be better if all of a sudden soccer became the most popular sport in US? Of course! Not disputing that... But the fact it's not is not an excuse for what's happening...

Also, I think you are underestimating the number of soccer fans in the US... Plenty of MLS games sold out... Not comparing with the 4 majors of course but the market is there and growing...

The competition for alethic talent is definitely an issue... But we still manage to recruit an enormous amount of talent for Track and Field for example... How many Track and Field meeting have you seen on TV lately? And the competition is also not always with other sports, it's against other types of livelihood... In some places, playing soccer is the only chance some poor kids have to get a better life...

The amount of kids (both sexes) playing soccer is still enormous here... We have a developmental system here (High School + College) that you won't find in other places... And for as much as I think it's a good model, maybe that's part of the problem... In some countries, some kids go full on soccer when they are super young... See how young Messi was when he was brought to Spain by Barca...

Anyways, it's a complex issue for sure...
 
In other countries, the best players much of the time are are kids of parents who are either working class or below the poverty line.

The US has pay-to-play youth teams. So, to get get noticed, go to college, get on a national development path, these kids generally have to pay big bucks to get on a travel team, anywhere from $500 to thousands/year.

Simply put, a lot of the best young players simply cant afford it.

The US Soccer Federation should do a much better job of funding youth soccer to get away from pay-for-play so that the less economically fortunate kids have a chance to make it.

Also, we do have 4 major sports to compete with. Obviously soccer is nowhere near the popularity level (or the pay when you get to the professional level) of the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL. Not sure what the answer is there other than continuing to grow the domestic league with the hope that it someday can at least compete for premier athletes with some of the other major sports.

Not sure "lack of fans" is high up on the list of reasons the USMNT has stagnated, I think there are more fans than ever.
 
kirchhausen said:
The US has pay-to-play youth teams. So, to get get noticed, go to college, get on a national development path, these kids generally have to pay big bucks to get on a travel team, anywhere from $500 to thousands/year.
Simply put, a lot of the best young players simply cant afford it.
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I can see your point, but I'd think things will even themselves out at the high school level. Even if the poor, best athletes are less polished, they're still gonna have the athletic skills to make a freshman team. And they'll quickly catch up from there.
 
upNdown said:
I can see your point, but I'd think things will even themselves out at the high school level. Even if the poor, best athletes are less polished, they're still gonna have the athletic skills to make a freshman team. And they'll quickly catch up from there.
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By high school the best players (who can afford it) are already in Soccer Acadamies and elite travel clubs. Around the world kids are on Club Acadamy teams WELL before high school age.

If these kids even play on their high-school teams at that point they are well behind the curve.
 
Chicken Rob said:
unending conversation about US soccer is bullshit.
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ekricket said:
I didn't even know we had a soccer team.
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I think these flippant responses are bullshit. Honestly, I know its the cool thing to do to make fun of soccer and people who like soccer, but its a little ridiculous. there are plenty of sports I don't find particularly enjoyable to watch on tv, but its like soccer has become a national punch-line. I think maybe it has at least partially to do with the fact it is the most popular sports in the world, and its not something that the U.S. dominates in, so instead of investing the time and money to improve it, hey lets just shit all over soccer.

Unfortunately for you guys, soccer has gained a foothold here, with the premier league being shown every week on NBC sports, and with the bundesliga and la liga shown on cable channels. That, with the addition of the MLS, means that soccer is probably here to stay. I just hope the U.S.. takes advantage of the declining popularity of baseball and football. I would love to see the U.S. legitimately compete with the big boys in my lifetime.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
I think these flippant responses are bullshit. Honestly, I know its the cool thing to do to make fun of soccer and people who like soccer, but its a little ridiculous. there are plenty of sports I don't find particularly enjoyable to watch on tv, but its like soccer has become a national punch-line. I think maybe it has at least partially to do with the fact it is the most popular sports in the world, and its not something that the U.S. dominates in, so instead of investing the time and money to improve it, hey lets just shit all over soccer.

Unfortunately for you guys, soccer has gained a foothold here, with the premier league being shown every week on NBC sports, and with the bundesliga and la liga shown on cable channels. That, with the addition of the MLS, means that soccer is probably here to stay. I just hope the U.S.. takes advantage of the declining popularity of baseball and football. I would love to see the U.S. legitimately compete with the big boys in my lifetime.
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Not being flip here, I just thought we put something together for the Olympics and shit and didn't realize we actually competed in an ongoing league somewhere. Maybe if I paid more attention to important issues like this the team(s?) might win more?
 
Part of what works against men's soccer in the states the dominance of football in the college landscape combined with the effects of Title IX. That law, in part, requires women to have access to the same amount of scholarships that men receive. Because football dominates the scholarship board on the men's side (D1 schools are allowed to offer over 80 full scholarships to football players) AND because there's no scholarshipped women's D1 football teams, the NCAA must reduce the amount of scholarships available to other men's sports, increase the amount of women's scholarships, or some mix of the two in order to equalize the dollars. As a result, an NCAA school can't even give a scholarship to all their starting men's soccer players - only 9.9 scholarships per team per year are permitted. Looking at how many programs there are in various division 1 NCAA sports, about 2000 scholarships exist in men's soccer each year. Conversely, the amount of scholarships per year offered in football, baseball, and basketball combined starts to push 20,000 at the same competitive level.

Others have rightly said that US soccer is at an all-time high in popularity. Unfortunately fans don't show up in sufficient numbers for the majority of college sports other than men's football and men's basketball to fully fund the remainder of college sports. So when it comes to men continuing on in soccer, it's not just a lack of fans of college soccer that hurts men's soccer, it's also a lack of fans for men's gymnastics, and women's rugby, and women's ice hockey, etc. If every college sport was able to generate self-sustaining revenue then things would be different for all sports, not just men's soccer, but as long as football dominates the scene on the men's side, as long as Title IX exists in its current form, and until women's sports also start generating the same revenue as men's, men's soccer is very likely to remain an unattractive option for the top athletes in the country.

For what it's worth, here's the scholarships available by sport, per gender.

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That's a valid point, but as @kirchhausen said earlier, big time prospects in soccer are found out way before college. If the infrastructure of youth soccer continues to improve, we should get more and better talent developing. Typically (at least nowadays) the best of the best of these players will go to youth academies overseas to further develop. Pulisic, for example, went to Dortmund to continue his soccer development.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
big time prospects in soccer are found out way before college
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Agreed, and I also agree that the lack of advanced youth soccer structure here impedes overall USMNT success.

Overall, I have my doubts that men's soccer will ever reach the level of popularity of football, baseball, and basketball here in our lifetimes, nor approach the level of dominance we have in football or basketball on a world scale. As a society, we generally don't appreciate the subtlety & near-constant flow of soccer. All of our major sports require shorter attention spans, offer more breaks, and generally put raw power on a pedestal. The American fan base is conditioned from an early age to pay attention to sports for a pitch, a play, or a series at a time - not a constantly moving half. It craves the home run, the deep pass, the backboard-crashing dunk. Soccer - even at the World Cup or the Premier League - doesn't offer quite the same thing that our sports audience is accustomed to and seems to prefer.

I mean none of that as a knock on soccer. Top level football play requires top level athleticism. It just has a different quality to it than what most American sports fans currently appreciate.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
I think these flippant responses are bullshit. Honestly, I know its the cool thing to do to make fun of soccer and people who like soccer, but its a little ridiculous. there are plenty of sports I don't find particularly enjoyable to watch on tv, but its like soccer has become a national punch-line. I think maybe it has at least partially to do with the fact it is the most popular sports in the world, and its not something that the U.S. dominates in, so instead of investing the time and money to improve it, hey lets just shit all over soccer.

Unfortunately for you guys, soccer has gained a foothold here, with the premier league being shown every week on NBC sports, and with the bundesliga and la liga shown on cable channels. That, with the addition of the MLS, means that soccer is probably here to stay. I just hope the U.S.. takes advantage of the declining popularity of baseball and football. I would love to see the U.S. legitimately compete with the big boys in my lifetime.
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justifying taking over the bullshit thread with non-bullshit topic is bullshit. Start a soccer thread.
 
Maybe I can get us back on track.
Guys who look at pictures of other guys poker chips then comment on how "sexy" they are, is bullshit.
You guys are creepy.
 
Agree on virtually every point mentioned above (except the non-soccer bullshit). I may have misspoke when indicating lack of fans are an issue - it's lack of funding. US olympic teams are well funded because the olympics are huge in the US. There are big advertising dollars for olympic swimming (yawn), even though nearly anybody can name 2 current swimmers. Big money leads up to big hype. Big hype leads to more fans. More fans leads to more money, and the cycle repeats.

Nashville is in the throws of trying to get an MLS soccer team. I think this would be great, and soccer interest is at an all-time high in this city right now. Still, you have to hunt to find serious coverage of soccer on TV. ESPN doesn't cover a weekend of shows to fantasy soccer, or MLS Live.

But we got a hockey team, so anything is possible...
 
ekricket said:
Is this what's wrong with US soccer?

Um seriously though, if you look at the definition of these four things they all rely on fear to get you to change your behavior.
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Just trying to get the thread back on track. Plus I meant to post that in here previously but never got around to it.

FWIW, the training I went to for an hour after work today was bullshit.
 

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