Tourney T1K Starting Stack Tournament (2 Viewers)

[horseshoez]

I'm asking on behalf of a very stubborn friend who doesn't want to roll with the most common 10k and 20k starting stack tournament structures. Non-PCF member, hence my post. Here it goes.

He wants to get some opinions on a 20-player T1k starting stack with the following breakdown for each player:

10/10/2/1 ($5/$25/$100/$500)

Blind schedule (15 mins per blind level)
5/10
10/20
15/30
20/40

Break

25/50
30/60
40/80
50/100

Break

60/120
75/150
100/200
150/300

Break

200/400
250/500
300/600
400/800

Break

500/1k
600/1200
800/1600
1k/2k
1200/2400

He'd like to have the tournament run no longer than 5 hours. With the above blind schedule, 1) I don't think that is realistic considering some of the bumps in blinds are 25% or even less. I remember @BGinGA mentioning 33% and 50% bumps being more ideal.

Any input from all of you tournament experts out there is appreciated. I recommended he go with the common 10k 8/8/4/7 along with a blind schedule that has 33% and 50% bumps from one big blind to the other. He's not convinced and wants to get feedback from the masses lol

 

[Eriks]

I guess it works, but anything that isn’t T25 or T100 is just weird to me. Don’t like the 100bb starting stacks for starters.

I would skip:
25/50
50/100
250/500
500/1k
Make 75/150 -> 80/160

Or:
keep the 25/50 but then go into the standard increases from there i.e. 25/75 -> 50/100 -> 75/150 etc

 

[Sneakygreek]

How long are the blind levels/breaks?

 

[horseshoez]

How long are the blind levels/breaks?

Ah yes, forgot to mention that. 15 min blind levels.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Brings me back to the Party Poker days

 

[Sneakygreek]

Ah yes, forgot to mention that. 15 min blind levels.

Have you used the poker timer app? You can make your own blind levels and breaks. Once you input the number of players and starting stacks, it gives you a pretty accurate ending time.

 

[horseshoez]

Have you used the poker timer app? You can make your own blind levels and breaks. Once you input the number of players and starting stacks, it gives you a pretty accurate ending time.

He's actually using that app to guide him. I'm just not a big fan of 1k and 2k starting stack tournaments due to the fact that one has to deal with $1 and $5 chips on the table most of the time. I prefer 10k and 20k which have the $25 as the lowest denom.

 

[Sneakygreek]

He's actually using that app to guide him. I'm just not a big fan of 1k and 2k starting stack tournaments due to the fact that one has to deal with $1 and $5 chips on the table most of the time. I prefer 10k and 20k which have the $25 as the lowest denom.

I kind of like them. That’s how I started my tournaments. All the chips I used to have (HSI, sluggos) had $1 and $5 as my lowest denom. As long as you start with roughly 400 BBS I guess it doesn’t matter

 

[grantc54]

Just a pet peeve of mine, when referring to chips in tournament use a T instead of a $ e.g. T5 vs $5. They arent dollars but tournament units.

If you remove the 60/120 level you can chip up the T5's after the 1st break. As it stands it looks like it will be just under 5 hours (depending on break length) with 15 min levels and 20 players.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Essentially a T10k tourney structure just drop the last digit?

25-50 1-2
50-100 5-10
100-200 10-20
200-400 20-40
250-500 25-50
Etc…

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’ve wanted to do something similar to get my cash chips in play.

 

[horseshoez]

Just a pet peeve of mine, when referring to chips in tournament use a T instead of a $ e.g. T5 vs $5. They arent dollars but tournament units.

If you remove the 60/120 level you can chip up the T5's after the 1st break. As it stands it looks like it will be just under 5 hours (depending on break length) with 15 min levels and 20 players.

I keep forgetting to do that. I'm so used to using $ but you're absolutely right, T should be used when referring to tournament units.

 

[CSW]

The timing should work, assuming no (or limited) rebuys.

Some suggestions to improve the structure. First, increase the stacks to 2K and ditch the first level. That will keep the same starting bbs, but avoids the blinds doubling.

Second, skip these levels to make the jumps more even:
25/50
50/100
250/500
500/1000

With the extra 60 minutes from skipping those four levels, increase the rounds from 15 to 20 minutes.

The result will be a tournament that ends at the same time but is much smoother in blind increases.

If I am eyeballing this correctly, you can color up the T5 chips at the second break and the T25s at the third break.

 

[BGinGA]

I'm asking on behalf of a very stubborn friend who doesn't want to roll with the most common 10k and 20k starting stack tournament structures. Non-PCF member, hence my post. Here it goes.

He wants to get some opinions on a 20-player T1k starting stack with the following breakdown for each player:

10/10/2/1 ($5/$25/$100/$500)

Blind schedule (15 mins per blind level)
5/10
10/20
15/30
20/40

Break

25/50
30/60
40/80
50/100

Break

60/120
75/150
100/200
150/300

Break

200/400
250/500
300/600
400/800

Break

500/1k
600/1200
800/1600
1k/2k
1200/2400

He'd like to have the tournament run no longer than 5 hours. With the above blind schedule, 1) I don't think that is realistic considering some of the bumps in blinds are 25% or even less. I remember @BGinGA mentioning 33% and 50% bumps being more ideal.

Any input from all of you tournament experts out there is appreciated. I recommended he go with the common 10k 8/8/4/7 along with a blind schedule that has 33% and 50% bumps from one big blind to the other. He's not convinced and wants to get feedback from the masses lol

As listed (20 x T1000 stacks, 15-minute blind levels), the event will typically finish no later than the 500/1000 level (L17), or 4:15 plus four breaks (which do not align with the required color-ups).

There is nothing really wrong with a T5-base tournament, other than inherent player difficulty with the resulting 5x math in constructing bets and raises (which is a very real phenomenon).

But that T1000 starting stack contains a T500 chip equal to 1/2 the total stack size, which will be nearly impossible to break down into change (there simply aren't enough smaller denominations in play to do so). And with only 2x T100s per starting stack, there will not be a sufficient number of T100 chips in play when it becomes the workhorse chip. For those reasons, 10/10/2/1 = T1000 is really a horrific starting stack breakdown.

In addition, the blind structure shown is very inconsistent in assigning increases between blind levels, ranging from < 20% up to 100%.

For those two reasons, I agree with the type of format changes posted by @grantc54 and @CSW (see previous posts above) that address both the starting stack issues (by increasing it to T2000 with a 10/10/7/2 breakdown), and the inconsistency issues (by removing six ill-advised blind levels: 5/10, 25/50, 60/120, 250/500, 500/1000, and 1200/2400), while adding a new 1500/3000 level at the end (just in case). Increasing the blind level times is also a good idea, and very possible once the errant levels are removed.

As amended, the event -- 20 x T2000 (100bb) with 18-minute blind levels starting at 10/20 -- will typically end no later than the 1000/2000 level, or 4:30 hours plus three 10-minute color-up breaks (after 40/80, 150/300, and 800/1600). Most blind increases fall into a narrow and consistent 33%-to-50% range (with two 25% reset jumps), averaging ~40%.

L1 10/20
L2 15/30
L3 20/40
L4 30/60
L5 40/80
replace T5 chips (using 2 x T500)
L6 50/100
L7 75/150
L8 100/200
L9 150/300
replace T25 chips (using 5 x T1000)
L10 200/400
L11 300/600
L12 400/800
L13 600/1200
L14 800/1600
replace T100 chips (using 14 x T1000)
L15 1000/2000 ** eot
L16 1500/3000

Of course, the event can also be run as a T25-base starting at L6 (50/100) with T10k stacks (12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7, both 100bb) using the extra blind levels below. Imo, the change is well worth it, to avoid the early player difficulties encountered in a T5-base tournament.

L6-L16 above become:
L1-L11 (1500/3000)
remove T500 chips
L12 2000/4000
L13 3000/6000
L14 4000/8000
L15 5000/10000 **eot

Same 4.5 hours plus three color-up breaks.

 

[horseshoez]

As listed (20 x T1000 stacks, 15-minute blind levels), the event will typically finish no later than the 500/1000 level (L17), or 4:15 plus four breaks (which do not align with the required color-ups).

There is nothing really wrong with a T5-base tournament, other than inherent player difficulty with the resulting 5x math in constructing bets and raises (which is a very real phenomenon).

But that T1000 starting stack contains a T500 chip equal to 1/2 the total stack size, which will be nearly impossible to break down into change (there simply aren't enough smaller denominations in play to do so). And with only 2x T100s per starting stack, there will not be a sufficient number of T100 chips in play when it becomes the workhorse chip. For those reasons, 10/10/2/1 = T1000 is really a horrific starting stack breakdown.

In addition, the blind structure shown is very inconsistent in assigning increases between blind levels, ranging from < 20% up to 100%.

For those two reasons, I agree with the type of format changes posted by @grantc54 and @CSW (see previous posts above) that address both the starting stack issues (by increasing it to T2000 with a 10/10/7/2 breakdown), and the inconsistency issues (by removing six ill-advised blind levels: 5/10, 25/50, 60/120, 250/500, 500/1000, and 1200/2400), while adding a new 1500/3000 level at the end (just in case). Increasing the blind level times is also a good idea, and very possible once the errant levels are removed.

As amended, the event -- 20 x T2000 (100bb) with 18-minute blind levels starting at 10/20 -- will typically end no later than the 1000/2000 level, or 4:30 hours plus three 10-minute color-up breaks (after 40/80, 150/300, and 800/1600). Most blind increases fall into a narrow and consistent 33%-to-50% range (with two 25% reset jumps), averaging ~40%.

L1 10/20
L2 15/30
L3 20/40
L4 30/60
L5 40/80
replace T5 chips (using 2 x T500)
L6 50/100
L7 75/150
L8 100/200
L9 150/300
replace T25 chips (using 5 x T1000)
L10 200/400
L11 300/600
L12 400/800
L13 600/1200
L14 800/1600
replace T100 chips (using 14 x T1000)
L15 1000/2000 ** eot
L16 1500/3000

Of course, the event can also be run as a T25-base starting at L6 (50/100) with T10k stacks (12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7, both 100bb) using the extra blind levels below. Imo, the change is well worth it, to avoid the early player difficulties encountered in a T5-base tournament.

L6-L16 above become:
L1-L11 (1500/3000)
remove T500 chips
L12 2000/4000
L13 3000/6000
L14 4000/8000
L15 5000/10000 **eot

Same 4.5 hours plus three color-up breaks.

I had complete confidence that you would deliver a perfect explanation, detailing the modifications for each blind schedule. Thank you, thank you, thank you Dave - you're awesome!

 

[Eriks]

As listed (20 x T1000 stacks, 15-minute blind levels), the event will typically finish no later than the 500/1000 level (L17), or 4:15 plus four breaks (which do not align with the required color-ups).

There is nothing really wrong with a T5-base tournament, other than inherent player difficulty with the resulting 5x math in constructing bets and raises (which is a very real phenomenon).

But that T1000 starting stack contains a T500 chip equal to 1/2 the total stack size, which will be nearly impossible to break down into change (there simply aren't enough smaller denominations in play to do so). And with only 2x T100s per starting stack, there will not be a sufficient number of T100 chips in play when it becomes the workhorse chip. For those reasons, 10/10/2/1 = T1000 is really a horrific starting stack breakdown.

In addition, the blind structure shown is very inconsistent in assigning increases between blind levels, ranging from < 20% up to 100%.

For those two reasons, I agree with the type of format changes posted by @grantc54 and @CSW (see previous posts above) that address both the starting stack issues (by increasing it to T2000 with a 10/10/7/2 breakdown), and the inconsistency issues (by removing six ill-advised blind levels: 5/10, 25/50, 60/120, 250/500, 500/1000, and 1200/2400), while adding a new 1500/3000 level at the end (just in case). Increasing the blind level times is also a good idea, and very possible once the errant levels are removed.

As amended, the event -- 20 x T2000 (100bb) with 18-minute blind levels starting at 10/20 -- will typically end no later than the 1000/2000 level, or 4:30 hours plus three 10-minute color-up breaks (after 40/80, 150/300, and 800/1600). Most blind increases fall into a narrow and consistent 33%-to-50% range (with two 25% reset jumps), averaging ~40%.

L1 10/20
L2 15/30
L3 20/40
L4 30/60
L5 40/80
replace T5 chips (using 2 x T500)
L6 50/100
L7 75/150
L8 100/200
L9 150/300
replace T25 chips (using 5 x T1000)
L10 200/400
L11 300/600
L12 400/800
L13 600/1200
L14 800/1600
replace T100 chips (using 14 x T1000)
L15 1000/2000 ** eot
L16 1500/3000

Of course, the event can also be run as a T25-base starting at L6 (50/100) with T10k stacks (12/12/5/6 or 8/8/4/7, both 100bb) using the extra blind levels below. Imo, the change is well worth it, to avoid the early player difficulties encountered in a T5-base tournament.

L6-L16 above become:
L1-L11 (1500/3000)
remove T500 chips
L12 2000/4000
L13 3000/6000
L14 4000/8000
L15 5000/10000 **eot

Same 4.5 hours plus three color-up breaks.

/thread