Tourney T- Base Preference for Tournaments

Which Base Chip Do You Prefer in Tournaments?


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Blind Joe

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Thanks, I appreciate the help. My initial reaction to the 15/5/11/1 idea was, wow almost half your stack is the lowest denom, that's a shame since it's the first colored up, but then in trying to put a blind schedule together, those 100s would be used for maybe 6 rounds? I will have to think about it some more, but it seems that the 100 as the lowest denom seems so odd because that inefficient 500/1000 jump seems to be in a crucial spot. To me, this is the advantage of starting with the 5, no odd jumps until way later, and you have the chips for any blind amount you need. If you start out with 100/200, what is the second level, 200/400? It seems awkward to me. I will have to do some re-reading in this thread.

Bear in mind that I've never used either of these as we tend to have T15K (150BB) rather than T20K (200BB) starting stacks, but I like putting together blind schedules and have had these made up for a while. They may work for you.

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I like to schedule a break every hour and keep increases as consistent as possible. The first one speeds up after the second break (in my game this is when rebuys end), while the second maintains the same pace until the colour up. Single table with rebuys should end no later than the final levels (though adding contingency levels would always be prudent).
 
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Dix

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Mr Winberg

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One thing to keep in mind regarding 10 vs 15 of the T100 chips is if you use antes or not. If using the Big Blind ante, the 200/400 level would require 8 T100 chips from the big blind, and 1×T500+3×T100 cannot be used instead, it has to be 8 T100. So with antes I would have at least 15.

During my first year at PCF, after a post like that I would be like

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BGinGA

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And with a table ante, any base set will require more T500s than usual. Using the bare minimum of blind chips is also not recommended under those conditions.
 

Sprouty

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I normally host cash games but every once in a while I'll host a t1 based tournament. Our tourney buy ins are usually $40 and you start with 400 in chips (10x the buy in). It helps make for an easy chop at the end if the game doesn't get played out. When people bust the cash game fires up with a second cash set which gives me the opportunity to get two cash sets in play in one night. I also like to be different, and no one else around here runs a t1. I just know that if I purchase a tourney set it will likely collect dust. I have fun putting highly versatile cash sets together as my cash games will never see, $100 or $500 chips in play at the stakes we play.
 

AnteAndy

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I normally host cash games but every once in a while I'll host a t1 based tournament. Our tourney buy ins are usually $40 and you start with 400 in chips (10x the buy in). It helps make for an easy chop at the end if the game doesn't get played out. When people bust the cash game fires up with a second cash set which gives me the opportunity to get two cash sets in play in one night. I also like to be different, and no one else around here runs a t1. I just know that if I purchase a tourney set it will likely collect dust. I have fun putting highly versatile cash sets together as my cash games will never see, $100 or $500 chips in play at the stakes we play.
That was my initial thought. Although in the current card momd group buy, @Kid_Eastwood created some great WSOP mock designs and feel in love, and decided to have them as a set for any random tourney I personally through, AND for when I help run this league who's host decides to retire after this year.
 

Mr Winberg

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So given how popular the T100/T500/T1000/T5000 setup is (or is becoming) I guess you're all equally excited about a T10/T50/T100/T500 setup? :sneaky:

I mean, that extra zero can't be that important, right? ;)
 

Kid_Eastwood

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So given how popular the T100/T500/T1000/T5000 setup is (or is becoming) I guess you're all equally excited about a T10/T50/T100/T500 setup? :sneaky:

I mean, that extra zero can't be that important, right? ;)
That's why I prefer T1 (1/5/25 or 20/100) over T5 in fact.

If 25 in use : 10/13/9 starting stacks (T300 on 1-1 opening blinds)
If 20 in use : 10/14/11 starting stacks (T300 on 1-1 opening blinds)

Use 25 (or 20) to color-up the 1.
Use 100 to color-up the 5.

So 100/140/120/20 --> 380 chips in total for a STT freezeout set.
 
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Coyote

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So given how popular the T100/T500/T1000/T5000 setup is (or is becoming) I guess you're all equally excited about a T10/T50/T100/T500 setup? :sneaky:

I mean, that extra zero can't be that important, right? ;)
Plus an either 1K or 2K one.:)
Can be used for micro-cash too, costing the same to buy-in.
set 1b.jpg
 

BGinGA

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So given how popular the T100/T500/T1000/T5000 setup is (or is becoming) I guess you're all equally excited about a T10/T50/T100/T500 setup? :sneaky:

I mean, that extra zero can't be that important, right? ;)
In terms of quick comprehension and counting ease, yes.
 

Taghkanic

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The argument from affordability still seems pretty marginal TBH. Unless one is running huge tournaments, we’re talking pretty small numbers, no? For a 1-2 table tourney, maybe a 100 chip difference?

In any case, when the chips are in my home, and I don’t have to lug them to/from a car, streamlining a set down to the minimum necessary isn’t my priority, even if it is an interesting intellectual exercise.

If anything, home game regs seem to enjoy having moar chips in play. Plus I’m not aiming to have every player on every street needing to make change.

P.S. In a game starting at 100/200, the 500s don’t only play on the levels starting at 500/1000. They are very much in use during all earlier levels. So I also don’t feel much angst over that consideration.
 
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Mr Winberg

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The argument from affordability still seems pretty marginal TBH. Unless one is running huge tournaments, we’re talking pretty small numbers, no? For a 1-2 table tourney, maybe a 100 chip difference?
...plus I still feel that to compare accurately, one should compare lopsided to lopsided and non-lopsided to non-lopsided. Then the difference in even smaller:

I don't think the difference is that big, but that's because I try to compare as fairly as possible. I find a lot of people who are used to playing T25-base tournaments with 200 BB and T10k stacks with blinds 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200 etc then compare that with T100-base tournaments with 200 BB and T20k stacks with the lopsided blinds 100/100, 100/200, 100/300, 200/400 etc.

If not using lopsides levels, a T25 base T10k should be compared with a T100 base T40k. Or, if using lopsided levels, one should be comparing T25 base T5k with T100 base T20k. In both cases, the difference in the number of chips needed is reduced.

The same argument can be used here. With "standard-ish blinds", the difference in levels before color-up between 25 base and 100 base (if either both or none have lopsided blinds) is just a single level.

Lopsided T25 base:
  1. 25/25
  2. 25/50
  3. 25/75
  4. 50/100
  5. 75/150
  6. 100/200
  7. 150/300 then color-up
Lopsided T100 base:
  1. 100/100
  2. 100/200
  3. 100/300
  4. 200/400
  5. 300/600
  6. 400/800
  7. 600/1200
  8. 800/1600 then color-up
So 7 vs 8.

Non-lopsided T25:
  1. 25/50
  2. 50/100
  3. 75/150
  4. 100/200
  5. 150/300
Non-lopsided T100 base:
  1. 100/200
  2. 200/400
  3. 300/600
  4. 400/800
  5. 600/1200
  6. 800/1600
So 5 vs 6

With that said, I think lopsided levels are much more natural with a T100 base, so your case can still be made. :)
 

warma

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I use less than a T25 starting stack.

More importantly, the level progression is not equal with the T5 structure. The T5 structure starts with 500 BB, but after the T5s are raced off, the "starting stack" is 100 BB. The tournament then progresses like a 33% average increase T25 structure. Think of it as a 3 hour T25 tournament, with a 1 hour introduction, for a 4 hour poker night. Newbies rarely get eliminated before getting in an hour and a half of play, and usually 2-3 hours.
I’d be interested in the structure you use.
 

Poker Zombie

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I’d be interested in the structure you use.
This is my least elegant structure. It has a 2x jump after the first break, the T25s remain in play much longer than necessary, and there is an odd 700-1500 level. I am ok with all of that, because it serves it's purpose - to teach new players the game.

T5000 to start gives a new player ample room (500 BB) to limp into pots while learning the basics. On the first break, the new players feel like they accomplished something by making it to the break. It's a benchmark for them in future games. The break also gives them a chance to discuss possible strategic errors with better players.

The 2x jump signals the start of "real" poker. 50 BB (+/- stack size changes during the T5 levels).

Keeping T25s on longer than necessary keeps the breaks evenly spaced. New players learn the value of keeping stacks in even, countable stacks.

The 700/1500 level could easily be an 800/1600 level. It is in all my other structures, but this one I chose to leave it in, a remnant of my very first blind structure. It doesn't do much for anyone else, but it kind of reminds me of where I have come from.

5-10
10-20
15-30
25-50
Break, Remove T5s
50-100
75-150
100-200
125-250
Break, Last chance to rebuy. May forfeit current chips to rebuy.
150-300
200-400
300-600
400-800
Break, Remove T25s
500-1000
600-1200
700-1500
1000-2000
Optional break. If taken, remove T100s.
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
 

warma

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This is my least elegant structure. It has a 2x jump after the first break, the T25s remain in play much longer than necessary, and there is an odd 700-1500 level. I am ok with all of that, because it serves it's purpose - to teach new players the game.

T5000 to start gives a new player ample room (500 BB) to limp into pots while learning the basics. On the first break, the new players feel like they accomplished something by making it to the break. It's a benchmark for them in future games. The break also gives them a chance to discuss possible strategic errors with better players.

The 2x jump signals the start of "real" poker. 50 BB (+/- stack size changes during the T5 levels).

Keeping T25s on longer than necessary keeps the breaks evenly spaced. New players learn the value of keeping stacks in even, countable stacks.

The 700/1500 level could easily be an 800/1600 level. It is in all my other structures, but this one I chose to leave it in, a remnant of my very first blind structure. It doesn't do much for anyone else, but it kind of reminds me of where I have come from.

5-10
10-20
15-30
25-50
Break, Remove T5s
50-100
75-150
100-200
125-250
Break, Last chance to rebuy. May forfeit current chips to rebuy.
150-300
200-400
300-600
400-800
Break, Remove T25s
500-1000
600-1200
700-1500
1000-2000
Optional break. If taken, remove T100s.
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
Thanks! The slow roll concept would be good for noobs.
 

JustDave

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^ This is essentially the basis of the "T25-base is more economical" argument.

Fewer lowest-denomination 'blind' chips are required per starting stack (just 8 × T25, vs 10 × Tanythingelse). Since no more than 3 × T25 chips are ever needed to post a blind or compose a bet, fewer are needed per stack/player.

This is also true for T.25-base sets, except those sets are even *more* economical, since they don't suffer from the inefficient 2x-jump of T500-T1000 later in the event (using a T5-T25 increase instead, and requiring fewer high-denomination chips overall).

It's also true -- perhaps even more so -- for the T500-base approach.

Since no more than just 1 × T500 chip is ever needed for posting blinds or making bets, even fewer chips than 'normal' are needed for starting stacks -- 6 × or even 4 × T500 is plenty. Both of the following T500-base starting stacks are acceptable (and either is more economical in that regard than other set breakdowns, including T25- and T.25-base):

4 × T500
8 × T1000
10 × T5000
? × T25000
-or-
6 × T500
12 × T1000
9 × T5000
? × T25000

The ineffeciency of the T500-to-T1000 jump works against the economy of the T500 chip however, and actually makes it about a wash with the T25-base set..... although I think it's easier and simpler to implement and scale upwards.

Just because I'm curious and I have the day off, does the logic/breakdown for T5/T500 apply to say a T5,000 based game.

4 × T5,000
8 × T10,000
10 × T50,000
? × T250,000
-or-
6 × T5,000
12 × T10,000
9 × T50,000
? × T250,000

Also, these are both 60k(original) or 600k(10x), if the goal for a starting stack is some multiple of the BB, say 100x or 200x, how with ? T25,000/T250,000 are you getting there? or is my math a bit off.

Thanks,
Dave
 

JustinInMN

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I now have a base T500 set as my tournament standard. Typically do T150K starting stack with 6/12/12/3 of T500/1000/5000/25000. I can do 18 stacks that way or optionally I can do 27 stacks of 4/8/8/4 also for T150K. Typically blinds start at 500-1000, 500-1500, 1000-2000, 1500-3000, break / first color up.

(On an aside, BG's 6/12/9/x suggestion would be T60K + (x * T25K) )

I do like having a structure with four logical levels before the first break. And I also like that the 2x color up is the easiest to handle which mitigates the first color up having the widest field.

So this has become my favorite structure. I do still overall prefer T25 next, and T100 after that.
 

JustDave

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I now have a base T500 set as my tournament standard. Typically do T150K starting stack with 6/12/12/3 of T500/1000/5000/25000. I can do 18 stacks that way or optionally I can do 27 stacks of 4/8/8/4 also for T150K. Typically blinds start at 500-1000, 500-1500, 1000-2000, 1500-3000, break / first color up.

(On an aside, BG's 6/12/9/x suggestion would be T60K + (x * T25K) )

I do like having a structure with four logical levels before the first break. And I also like that the 2x color up is the easiest to handle which mitigates the first color up having the widest field.

So this has become my favorite structure. I do still overall prefer T25 next, and T100 after that.
The fact that T5 is T5/T25/T100/T500 and T500 is T500/T1000/T5000/T25000 instead of T500/T2500/T10000/T50000 just confuses me.
 

BGinGA

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The fact that T5 is T5/T25/T100/T500 and T500 is T500/T1000/T5000/T25000 instead of T500/T2500 T2000/T10000/T50000 just confuses me.
^FYP

Plus, it's due to readily available denominations (1000, 5000, and 25000), vs the uncommon 2000, 10000, and 50000.
 

Poker Zombie

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If you use T500/T2500/T10000/T50000, nobody is going to say "twenty-five hundred, or two-thousand, five hundred". They're just going to call it a Twenty-five" right out of the gate. So why would you make the denom smaller and harder to read by adding extra zeros that mean absolutely nothing?
 

JustDave

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If you use T500/T2500/T10000/T50000, nobody is going to say "twenty-five hundred, or two-thousand, five hundred". They're just going to call it a Twenty-five" right out of the gate. So why would you make the denom smaller and harder to read by adding extra zeros that mean absolutely nothing?
because you get to be a baller...
 

JustDave

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Make all buy-ins in Uzbekistani Soms (roughly 10,000 UZS to 1 USD). :rolleyes:
But like realistically, if you were building some fantasy set and wanted to have plaques, having a 100,000 plaque and a 500,000 plaque is cooler a 1,000 and 5,000 plaque. Just having fun.
 

Poker Zombie

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I do have a set that uses both T100,000 and T500,000 plaques (and T1,000,000 just in case).

I don't want it to play like a T5 tournament though, so I use denominations that are different than a T5 tourney. Also, most tournament players are used to using denominations like a T1000. They rarely say "one" for a thousand, because T100s may still be on the table and a valid bet. Keeping the lingo in a form that you are used to saying "thousand" at the tail end of the numerical makes everyone feel like they are playing high stakes. Introducing oddball chips will play - and sound - like a T5 tournament, because nobody is going to say "two-thousand, five hundred" when they see that odd chip.

The T2500 is anti-baller.
 

JustDave

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I do have a set that uses both T100,000 and T500,000 plaques (and T1,000,000 just in case).

I don't want it to play like a T5 tournament though, so I use denominations that are different than a T5 tourney. Also, most tournament players are used to using denominations like a T1000. They rarely say "one" for a thousand, because T100s may still be on the table and a valid bet. Keeping the lingo in a form that you are used to saying "thousand" at the tail end of the numerical makes everyone feel like they are playing high stakes. Introducing oddball chips will play - and sound - like a T5 tournament, because nobody is going to say "two-thousand, five hundred" when they see that odd chip.

The T2500 is anti-baller.
Interesting, is it using T100,000 and higher because it rolls up that many players or because it starts at a much higher base?

Would starting at a much higher base impact the way people played?
 

upNdown

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because you get to be a baller...
saying "thousand" at the tail end of the numerical makes everyone feel like they are playing high stakes.
Maybe I’m less whimsical than you guys, but I know I’m not a baller and I know I’m not playing high stakes. The zeros on the chips don’t matter - I know how much I paid to buy in.
If anybody can give me a reason to use anything higher than base T100, I’ll listen. But if that reason is to pretend you’re high rollers, I’ll be sorry I listened.
 

JustinInMN

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If anybody can give me a reason to use anything higher than base T100, I’ll listen. But if that reason is to pretend you’re high rollers, I’ll be sorry I listened.

I think I offered 2 pretty practical reasons for the T500 base above. The 2x jump makes the first color up easier and removes only about half as many chips from play as a base T25 structure would.

But I agree this much base T1000 makes about as much sense as base T1.
 
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