Straddling? (2 Viewers)

1/1 Holem/PLO the straddles are even more infrequent and im less likely to straddle too. Maybe the occasional 3x or 4x but rarely.
And 1/1 Holdem/PLO is for the home game i would play, the buy in is $120 and up so 100bbs +
 
Lash said:
Thanks for the lesson..
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No lessons. Just sounded like you were inferring that straddling makes for a worse player. And that has not been my experience.
 
It's possible both sides are correct yet are wearing blinders and can't see. It's all about stack to pot ratio. Sure if there are enough multi straddles and the game is aggro enough, then players are forced to play more aggressively preflop and with greater variance. Or you don't have to adapt, you can fold.

And for those who think there is no strategy in a straddle, simply LOL. If we're playing 1000bb deep and I button straddle 4x in Big O, I gain a lot of info preflop depending on if anyone raises (who it is and how much). If I'm lucky enough to get a premium hand, I'm hammering a raise pf because all those calling stations want to see a flop. Even more info if someone reraises me pf. Players play tighter post-flop in straddled pots as a general rule. Use it to your advantage.
 
MatB said:
I think I agree.

The anti-straddlers seem to think skill goes out the window when straddles in play.
Not sure why they think that. And it looks like they are pigeon holing themselves into one type of player.
Which looks very exploitable to me.
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CraigT78 said:
So here is a question - how is a straddle any different than the guy playing at a $1/$2($3) table who is popping it to $10 or $15 every hand preflop? Do you grumble and fold everything but Aces? Or the guy in the home game playing $.25/$.50 but raises to $5 pre every time?
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MatB said:
of course they grumble LOL. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
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MatB said:
How dare you put me out of my comfort zone of seeing more cards for cheap !
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This is precisely why I have a problem with most straddles/straddlers. Recreational players are the lifeblood of the poker community and the source of your profit/chip buying budgets. Forget whether straddles are good or bad strategically or whether they are for gamblers/tight players and whether you, me or all PCFers are great players and can adjust our games. I play in a game that the pre-flop raise is usually 7-20xBB...yup, you read that right... and if you can't 'adjust', you will never survive in this game. And this game is full-on bingo/gambling. What my point has been is in regards to the larger community of players I see at live casino games and how pros/semi-pros/regs bully/shame non-pro/rec players into straddling. I can exploit straddlers and or while I am straddling, but I have seen so many recreational players who straddle very reluctantly, and when they don't, people make them feel as if they don't belong in that game as 'everyone' is straddling except that one player (or two). The poker community (amongst the pros/regs) seems to have already decided that this a black and white issue: Straddle if you like bigger games and gambling/and those opposing it are tight/ABC players. What I dislike the most ab out the straddle argument is how players end up treating the recreational players when they don't want to straddle, hence we eliminated from our game and no one feels any peer pressure. Yet, our game plays bigger than ever. As I said before, player composition is the best way to juice-up the game (IMHO).
 
MatB said:
the
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courage said:
It's possible both sides are correct yet are wearing blinders and can't see. It's all about stack to pot ratio. Sure if there are enough multi straddles and the game is aggro enough, then players are forced to play more aggressively preflop and with greater variance. Or you don't have to adapt, you can fold.

And for those who think there is no strategy in a straddle, simply LOL. If we're playing 1000bb deep and I button straddle 4x in Big O, I gain a lot of info preflop depending on if anyone raises (who it is and how much). If I'm lucky enough to get a premium hand, I'm hammering a raise pf because all those calling stations want to see a flop. Even more info if someone reraises me pf. Players play tighter post-flop in straddled pots as a general rule. Use it to your advantage.
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I don't disagree with anything here, but buying in for 1000 BBs is the rarity. The example used was only allowing players to buy in for 200 BBs. That's more common in home games.
 
Gobbs said:
I don't disagree with anything here, but buying in for 1000 BBs is the rarity. The example used was only allowing players to buy in for 200 BBs. That's more common in home games.
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I can't recall ever buying in for 1000bb. But 200bb is common. Already playing deep, double up, and that's a deep effective stack.
 
courage said:
I can't recall ever buying in for 1000bb. But 200bb is common. Already playing deep, double up, and that's a deep effective stack.
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That's my point...buy in for 200 BBs and the first hand you get a multiple straddle, you are playing with 50BBs or less right out of the shoot. Would anybody really ever buy into a straddleless game for 50BBs or less?
 
Gobbs said:
That's my point...buy in for 200 BBs and the first hand you get a multiple straddle, you are playing with 50BBs or less right out of the shoot. Would anybody really ever buy into a straddleless game for 50BBs or less?
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Sure. Bad strategy imo but I've seen 9bb, 20bb, 40bb in my game more often than I can count.
 
courage said:
Sure. Bad strategy imo but I've seen 9bb, 20bb, 40bb in my game more often than I can count.
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Come to think of it, last month, while I was playing in the morning tournament, I did see a guy buy-in for 50 BBs at a Harrah's 1/2 NL cash game (at least, I'm pretty sure I looked at it right). I planned to keep an eye on him, but the tournament ended about 10 minutes later. So, I didn't see how he did.
 
Gobbs said:
That's my point...buy in for 200 BBs and the first hand you get a multiple straddle, you are playing with 50BBs or less right out of the shoot. Would anybody really ever buy into a straddleless game for 50BBs or less?
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I really don't understand your reticence to playing in games that allow straddling. It is so +ev for you, no one is forcing you to straddle, so the amount you are involuntarily putting into the pot is still just 1 big and 1 small blind an orbit. Meanwhile, if most other people are straddling, almost very time you wake up with a big hand the pot is inflated. All you have to do is tighten up your pre-flop range and you should be able to clean up pretty easily.
 
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Chippy McChiperson said:
I really don't understand your reticence to playing in games that allows straddling. It is so +ev for you, no one is forcing you to straddle, so the amount you are involuntarily putting into the pot is still just 1 big and 1 small blind an orbit. Meanwhile, if most other people are straddling, almost very time you wake up with a big hand the pot is inflated. All you have to do is tighten up your pre-flop range and you should be able to clean up pretty easily.
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Great, now everyone knows what to do. Thanks Chippy :rolleyes:
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
I really don't understand your reticence to playing in games that allow straddling. It is so +ev for you, no one is forcing you to straddle, so the amount you are involuntarily putting into the pot is still just 1 big and 1 small blind an orbit. Meanwhile, if most other people are straddling, almost very time you wake up with a big hand the pot is inflated. All you have to do is tighten up your pre-flop range and you should be able to clean up pretty easily.
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Shhhh. At least put this in a book and charge for it!
 
Isn't it inaccurate (some would even say dishonest) to invite friends and normal people (recreational, yet not clueless players) to your home for a "x/2x":rolleyes: game which turns out to be a true 4x/8x game, due to straddling and over-liberal buy-in rules (or no rules)?
How many (announced / supposed) BBs do you expect your invitees to have in their pockets?
How many BBs do you carry in your pocket when invited over?
Isn't it nasty to discover that your poker money is going to offer you only a quarter of the expected BBs for that night?
 
For the games we run we allow a UTG straddle only. Some of the ideas above are pretty interesting and I may implement them to see how the players enjoy it. Thanks for the ideas!
 
Coyote said:
Isn't it inaccurate (some would even say dishonest) to invite friends and normal people (recreational, yet not clueless players) to your home for a "x/2x":rolleyes: game which turns out to be a true 4x/8x game, due to straddling and over-liberal buy-in rules (or no rules)?
How many (announced / supposed) BBs do you expect your invitees to have in their pockets?
How many BBs do you carry in your pocket when invited over?
Isn't it nasty to discover that your poker money is going to offer you only a quarter of the expected BBs for that night?
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All of the players that play in our game know about the straddling rule, and I would imagine newcomers are advised ahead of time on how the game is played. Certainly not everyone straddles, nor are they expected to, but even without straddling our .25/.50 games play larger than normal.
 
That's not really a problem in our game, the only thing that gets you uninvited as being such an egregious douche nozzle that no one wants to play with you. As far as I know that's only happened to one person.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
...newcomers are advised ahead of time on how the game is played.
...our .25/.50 games play larger than normal.
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Understood and respected; no judgement.
My genuine question is what's the drive behind playing x/2x larger than normal, instead of playing 2x/4x normal.
 
Coyote said:
Understood and respected; no judgement.
My genuine question is what's the drive behind playing x/2x larger than normal, instead of playing 2x/4x normal.
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Some people like action, if the game gets too nitty someone will invariably straddle to liven things up, or some people see it as a way to try to build bigger pots if they want to get unstuck near the end of the evening.
 
we have no straddles to actually keep the game a little smaller. it is 50c/50c $100 max buy in, but plays a little larger and we keep the stakes lower to make sure the casual players keep coming back and enjoying themselves. each to their own, but straddling would make too many people feel uncomfy, and i do not host a deadly serious game with too high stakes...
 
Coyote said:
Understood and respected; no judgement.
My genuine question is what's the drive behind playing x/2x larger than normal, instead of playing 2x/4x normal.
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In my game it usually happens when the 2 cash tables combine and things tend to get a bit nutty. One table is always the circus degen table anyway, and those are the players who will straddle, double, and triple straddle.
 
kk405 said:
People try to 'tighten-up their range' in our game and after a few games they stop getting invited :unsure:
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What? You stopped inviting someone because they tightened up and folded more?
 
Interesting debate.

Obviously, it is up to the host to make their home game rules, but...

More questions: Would you allow straddles if majority wanted them or only if everyone agreed? Would you eliminate straddles if majority wanted to or only if everyone wanted to? How does a host make a decision about using straddles or not especially since it looks like there's a friggin' line drawn in the sand on this issue?
 

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