Straddling? (1 Viewer)

[Lash]

The people who straddle at my games are always the ones to lose their chips first.

 

[MatB]

What game?

All things circus.

 

[MatB]

I’ll straddle in a home game of 1/1 PLO/ Holdem rotation but don’t mind if I don’t.
It’s a different game, different strategy.

But circus is for clowns, and Coco came to party !

Honk ! Honk !

 

[Old State]

Straddles are stupid. A lot of people only do it because they see it on TV and want to project a faux reckless gambler image. I associate it with the sunglasses and lucky charm card protector types.

 

[MatB]

Straddles are stupid. A lot of people only do it because they see it on TV and want to project a faux reckless gambler image. I associate it with the sunglasses and lucky charm card protector types.

Is this faux real?

 

[Old State]

Is this faux real?

Yep. Most of the guys who straddle in AC look like this

 

[Gobbs]

I think one's viewpoint on straddling is indicative of what one values most about poker, and both viewpoints are fine. I think if you look at poker as a way to gamble, you view straddling as a tool to encourage gambling. If you view poker as a game of skill and want to maximize that aspect, you don't appreciate straddling. Of course, there are exceptions, but overall, that seems to be my experience.

 

[detroitdad]

I play poker to have fun. If straddling is fun. then i'll do it.

I don't think gambling, and skill set are exclusive. Sometimes gambling is the best skill set to employ for that specific table.

I don't know if this makes sense, fuck it, never stopped me before. Time for a mojito!

 

[MatB]

I play poker to have fun. If straddling is fun. then i'll do it.

I don't think gambling, and skill set are exclusive. Sometimes gambling is the best skill set to employ for that specific table.

I don't know if this makes sense, fuck it, never stopped me before. Time for a mojito!

I think I agree.

The anti-straddlers seem to think skill goes out the window when straddles in play.
Not sure why they think that. And it looks like they are pigeon holing themselves into one type of player.
Which looks very exploitable to me.

 

[BGinGA]

The anti-straddlers seem to think skill goes out the window when straddles in play.
Not sure why they think that.

Please reference my previous example regarding how all skill-related decisions were completely eliminated.

 

[Gobbs]

The “anti-straddlers” don’t think skill goes out the window with straddles, but realizes it reduces the amount of skill needed to play the game. It’s kind of a cash game equivalent to the simplified strategy proposed by Daniel Negreanu for beginning NL players in tournaments. Instead of betting 3x the BB when opening pre-flop, he suggests betting 5x the BB to help reduce the number of post-flop decisions a player needs to make. There is more to it but that’s part of it. He readily admits it’s not an ideal strategy and even uses techniques stronger players should avoid, but it reduces the advantage more advanced players have against beginners.

Straddles serve a very similar purpose, especially multiple straddles. It reduces (not throws it out the window) the importance of post-flop play which is where many strong players butter their bread. I would say the dislike for straddles is actually the opposite of players pigeon-holing themselves. It’s that they prefer to have multiple strategies available to them but are somewhat hampered when some of those strategies are hindered by straddles.

 

[MatB]

So by your reckoning... the 'less skilled' players are leveling the playing field?

I guess that's one way to look at it.
or
You could see it as the 'more skilled' in their eyes anyway, need to broaden their game. If lesser skilled players can take advantage of more skilled players in a game of poker, then perhaps they were not as skilled as they thought they were.

 

[CraigT78]

The “anti-straddlers” don’t think skill goes out the window with straddles, but realizes it reduces the amount of skill needed to play the game.

Straddles serve a very similar purpose, especially multiple straddles. It reduces (not throws it out the window) the importance of post-flop play which is where many strong players butter their bread. I would say the dislike for straddles is actually the opposite of players pigeon-holing themselves. It’s that they prefer to have multiple strategies available to them but are somewhat hampered when some of those strategies are hindered by straddles.

This really makes the argument FOR straddling. By doing so, I am taking away the advantage of a more skilled post flop player, so how is that a bad thing? If I am a good post flop player already - a straddle should make me even stronger, should it not - at least stronger than those who cannot adjust to a blind raise pre?

 

[MatB]

.. also, how in the heck could you be upset that you (non straddler) gets to look down at 99 and having the pot already bloated with straddles to $4 or $8.

What would you have done in a no straddle NL game? just called?

What do you do with a straddle to $8? just call?

Like i said, if youre not taking advantage of the situation, then its not the straddlers fault.

 

[MatB]

The people who straddle at my games are always the ones to lose their chips first.

People that straddle can be bad players too. Just as much as non straddlers.

Straddling or not. Neither is an indicator of how good or successful a player is.

 

[CraigT78]

So here is a question - how is a straddle any different than the guy playing at a $1/$2($3) table who is popping it to $10 or $15 every hand preflop? Do you grumble and fold everything but Aces? Or the guy in the home game playing $.25/$.50 but raises to $5 pre every time?

 

[MatB]

So here is a question - how is a straddle any different than the guy playing at a $1/$2($3) table who is popping it to $10 or $15 every hand preflop? Do you grumble and fold everything but Aces? Or the guy in the home game playing $.25/$.50 but raises to $5 pre every time?

of course they grumble LOL.

 

[MatB]

How dare you put me out of my comfort zone of seeing more cards for cheap !

 

[Gobbs]

This really makes the argument FOR straddling. By doing so, I am taking away the advantage of a more skilled post flop player, so how is that a bad thing? If I am a good post flop player already - a straddle should make me even stronger, should it not - at least stronger than those who cannot adjust to a blind raise pre?

It makes the argument for straddling if you don’t want to make decisions after the flop. If you are a good post-flop player, your goal should be to get to a flop against weaker post-flop players and put them to difficult decisions. You accomplish the exact opposite with straddles. You’ve made their post-flop decisions much easier by effectively reducing the value of their stack in comparison to the pot.

 

[Gobbs]

So here is a question - how is a straddle any different than the guy playing at a $1/$2($3) table who is popping it to $10 or $15 every hand preflop? Do you grumble and fold everything but Aces? Or the guy in the home game playing $.25/$.50 but raises to $5 pre every time?

You mean other than the fact the guy who popped it to $15 cant re-raise unless he is raised???

 

[MatB]

I think you’re missing the point. Nobody is saying stradd


It makes the argument for straddling if you don’t want to make decisions after the flop. If you are a good post-flop player, your goal should be to get to a flop against weaker post-flop players and put them to difficult decisions. You accomplish the exact opposite with straddles. You’ve made their post-flop decisions much easier by effectively reducing the value of their stack in comparison to the pot.

But that also makes the argument that you are put to a difficult decision because of the straddles. Ergo: you are now the weaker player.

 

[Gobbs]

But that also makes the argument that you are put to a difficult decision because of the straddles. Ergo: you are now the weaker player.

No, it makes decisions even easier for me. How would that make my decisions harder?

 

[MatB]

No, it makes decisions even easier for me. How would that make my decisions harder?

Your saying without straddles, your goal is to get heads up with weaker player so you can 'out play' them.

Now with straddles youre heads up with the same player. But somehow your decisions are easier? I guess im missing something.
Youre in the exact position you wanted to be in. You have the 'weaker ' player where you want them. But thats a bad thing?

Are you saying because they have stack committed pre flop (not sure thats right if only straddles in play and playing deep, but ok) that you have lost the ability now to out maneuver them?

 

[Old State]

I think one's viewpoint on straddling is indicative of what one values most about poker, and both viewpoints are fine. I think if you look at poker as a way to gamble, you view straddling as a tool to encourage gambling. If you view poker as a game of skill and want to maximize that aspect, you don't appreciate straddling. Of course, there are exceptions, but overall, that seems to be my experience.

For a hundred years poker players have insisted that their game is NOT gambling but skill. Several states were even convinced to legalize poker rather but not other games because of this.

I don’t like straddles (or kill pots for that matter) because I think they serve no purpose other than pure gambling. I also don’t like them because I never saw them live until they first were featured on TV...and I hate stupid TV inspired poker shtick. I was only partially joking in my earlier post. Most people who straddle at the casino are the guys acting like douche bags at the table. And the guys who do it in home games are the ones always jawing about old gambling stories and how crazy they used to be.

 

[Rhodeman77]

For all those the love 2,3,4 stadddles would you play in a $1/2 game with a $40 max buy in? Or a 25/50c game with a $10 max buy in?

The effective stacks sizes are cut down so much with multiple staddles. Yes there is extra dead money which means people will gamble much more with a much wider range as well chasing the dead money.

All of this makes it much more of scratch off lotto ticket and who ever can afford to buy the most lotto tickets or gets luckiest wins. There is far less over all skill needed to win.

 

[MatB]

For all those the love 2,3,4 stadddles would you play in a $1/2 game with a $40 max buy in? Or a 25/50c game with a $10 max buy in?

The effective stacks sizes are cut down so much with multiple staddles. Yes there is extra dead money which means people will gamble much more with a much wider range as well chasing the dead money.

All of this makes it much more of scratch off lotto ticket and who ever can afford to buy the most lotto tickets or gets luckiest wins. There is far less over all skill needed to win.

the buy in is 20 big blinds?

 

[Gobbs]

Your saying without straddles, your goal is to get heads up with weaker player so you can 'out play' them.

Now with straddles youre heads up with the same player. But somehow your decisions are easier? I guess im missing something.
Youre in the exact position you wanted to be in. You have the 'weaker ' player where you want them. But thats a bad thing?

Are you saying because they have stack committed pre flop (not sure thats right if only straddles in play and playing deep, but ok) that you have lost the ability now to out maneuver them?

No, I said the goal is to get to the flop with weaker post-flop players and make them have tough decisions. (Similar to “out-playing them” but much more specific.) Their decisions are far easier when they have more of their stack in the pot already. This equates to far fewer mistakes by them and less profit for me. Take the example of the 200BB buy-in from the OP. Straddles to $4 or $8 effectively turn 200BB stacks into 12.5BB or 25BB stacks. Much easier decision post-flop in those situations.

Also, please remember, I stated a while ago that, in the long run, people putting up blind straddles is profit for everybody else, but it increases the variance and I question if it’s more profit than if good layers simply outplay bad ones.

 

[honkydevil]

For all those the love 2,3,4 stadddles would you play in a $1/2 game with a $40 max buy in? Or a 25/50c game with a $10 max buy in?

PLO? Yes. But I don’t mind short stacking, so I kinda have a game plan with smaller SPR.

 

[honkydevil]

I should say I don’t think that would make a good environment for a home game though. Unless you have 8 degens that’s want to fire bullets til there’s more money on the table.

 

[MatB]

Circus games i've played the 4x or 5x straddles are pretty infrequent. And typically even when it feels like a table of degens, theres 1 or 2 that dont straddle. for whatever reason.
Although I'm 99% sure their reason isn't because they think they are better players.