PAHWM: Limit Big-O UTG

jbutler

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I've talked about this game a few times before, but the background is this: most of the guys are older and grew up playing Stud-8 and Omaha-8. They occasionally have a NL/PLO night, but it's been almost exclusively dealer's choice for the past year or so of the two-night-a-week game. The most frequently called games are Iron/Criss Cross, Tahoe (they call it Palin), O8, and Big O. The betting structure is: $5/5 blinds; $10 on flop; $10 on turn; $15 on river. This occasionally varies depending on who starts the game, but that's the structure tonight anyway.

The guys there in the night in question were almost all your prototypical loose passive donks. You don't see a lot of action on the flop unless two guys flopped the nuts. Very infrequently you'll see a guy go crazy with some speculative junk, but for the most part you'll see at least 4 ways to the river with only one bet going in on most streets. But they will call with literally any piece and any draw down to the river and then they can't let go because they've put so much in.

Everyone has more than enough money to cap all streets, so stack size not an issue. As for table image, I bought for $300 and spewed through $150 pretty quickly. Bought $100 more and have now run it up to $700ish, so they all think I'm on a streak and they love to beat a guy in the middle of a streak.

The hand: I'm dealt A2246 with nut hearts UTG. I limp and we get three more limpers and the blinds check.

Flop ($30): J47r with one heart.

Blinds check. My action?
 

DrStrange

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Hero has a limited shot at high, mostly runner runner draws. Hero has an excellent chance for low but he has nothing yet (and some chance to get quartered and/or counterfeited.) Even if all six people call $10, Hero's equity for a single draw is something like 16%. Hero doesn't want to thin the field - if he knew a $10 bet is going to be called by everyone and not raised, fine then bet. But hero doesn't know that. So I think check/call is better.

I recommend checking

I don't have a clue about this -=- DrStrange
 

kirchhausen

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Ok so you have a decent low draw, but it could never get there, or be chopped, or counterfeited Only real high hand possibilities would need to hit running hearts and probably avoid the board pairing. I would check call, if the pot was bet and raised before it got to me I would fold/
 

jbutler

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Okay, maybe not much to discuss here except for how I guess others disagree with my flop bet, so moving on:

I bet and everyone calls except for the CO.

Turns ($80): Ax (completes rainbow; no flush draw)

Blinds check. My action?
 

Racer96

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Check call.

Top and bottom, with your low pooched now. If this was no limit I might throw it away, depending on bet sizing.

Do you guys play with the option of a pat hand?

Mike
 

Racer96

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Ok. Pat hands have a way of screwing things up , but it's more fun. Lol.

btw, thinking on check calling is that you have two of the 2s, so someone with 2,3 is less likely. 3 falls on the river and you have to worry about getting quartered (or 1/6)

Mike
 

DrStrange

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Hero has a reasonable high and low. Not the nuts and limited ways for the river to make the nuts.

I have paid a lot of money in a four card O8 to find that my good two way hand was the silver medal hand both ways. Check/call, not sticking around for a raising war if one erupts.

DrStrange
 

jbutler

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Ok. Pat hands have a way of screwing things up , but it's more fun. Lol.

yeah agreed. this group actually also prefers tahoe/palin/etc to big-o, but for whatever reason people called big-o a lot last night.
 

Racer96

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It's funny. Your cast sounds a lot like the group that I occasionally play with (my parent's friends actually. Average age is probably early 70s, with the oldest being in his mid/late 80s. The difference is that they play micro stakes (50c ante , with 25 or 50c betting on early streets and 25c to $1 on later streets).

Does your group allow check raising?

Mike
 

jbutler

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It's funny. Your cast sounds a lot like the group that I occasionally play with (my parent's friends actually. Average age is probably early 70s, with the oldest being in his mid/late 80s. The difference is that they play micro stakes (50c ante , with 25 or 50c betting on early streets and 25c to $1 on later streets).

Does your group allow check raising?

yeah they do, but we talk a lot about the games "back in the day" which are the ones i learned in as well when i was younger. they were all forced bet (no checking) and then when checking was allowed, no check raising. now it's all allowed. the only game that has forced betting is cross.
 

Racer96

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Yeah. This group allows checking, but no check raising. I really enjoy playing with them, hearing lots of great stories. It's also a little weird, sitting with them and playing as friends, when years ago, they were all just big scary adults.

Mike
 

jbutler

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Yeah. This group allows checking, but no check raising. I really enjoy playing with them, hearing lots of great stories. It's also a little weird, sitting with them and playing as friends, when years ago, they were all just big scary adults.

my group can get really ornery. we've had at least one 70+ year old on 70+ year old fist fight and many threats of bodily harm. still a good time honestly.
 

onerand

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I bet flop and with two deuces I like betting turn too - maybe knock someone out and rely on emergency low.
 

Ben

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Raise pre. IF I raised pre (which I did [emoji6]) I bet flop. As played, c/c flop. (Begrudgingly) c/c one bet on turn (certainly not two.)
 

jbutler

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Raise pre.

I disagree. I want it as multi-way as possible when I have a strong low hand like this. No, it's not A23xx, but the fact that I have two deuces and a 4 means I'm going to be making the nuts vs second or third nut low a fair amount. Plus I have a nut suit and these guys will spew with 2nd and 3rd nut flushes. If I fold out two players pre with a raise, that's a bad thing imo.
 

Ben

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I disagree. I want it as multi-way as possible when I have a strong low hand like this. No, it's not A23xx, but the fact that I have two deuces and a 4 means I'm going to be making the nuts vs second or third nut low a fair amount. Plus I have a nut suit and these guys will spew with 2nd and 3rd nut flushes. If I fold out two players pre with a raise, that's a bad thing imo.

I'm ok with folding out a couple if everyone else pays double. Otherwise what is our raising range here? Exactly AA23 only like the casino OMCs?

Also marginal spots like this one become much more viable when we've at least forced the total trash hands out of the pot. Against 2 opponents I really like our chances of getting half here - against 4 I'm changing my answer to check-fold on the turn. After further review, it's less likely than I first thought that our high is good against 4 limpers, and even if it is, we hate almost every river card and have to call off again. Just dump it.
 
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