PAHWM: $300 tourney w/KK (16 Viewers)

[Legend5555]

Playing a local $300 charity tournament. 30 min levels using the WSOP blind structure with big blind ante.

Reentry has just ended after 4 hours. Table is 10 handed. Hero has been mostly card dead. Hero triple barreled an under pair as a bluff and got a fold, didn't show. Hero raised QQ, went 4 ways, checked all the way down on AKxxx and somehow won at showdown. Hero raised 4 other hands and bricked multi-way and check folded. Then raised AQ, got called by BB. Got flop bet called, and thin value bet on river called on QJT78 board and was good.

Relevant players:

Button: bought in late. Only been at table for 1.25hrs. Seems like a solid thinking player.

MP: fairly laggy player, but has limped a lot as well as 3 bet very speculatively. But now that rebuys are over, I expect everyone to tighten up some.

Hero is on his first bullet. Button is on bullet 2, MP is on bullet 3. Button has seen hero's AQ hand but no others. MP has seen everything.

Effective stack: 56bb (Hero).

Folds to MP, who limps.
Hero in LJ next to act raises to 3.33bb with KK (suits irrelevant).
Button looks interested, grabs chips to 3 bet, then ends up tossing in a one chip call.
MP calls.

Pot: 12.5bb
Eff stack: 52.66bb

Flop:

MP checks.

HERO?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Great. OOP to the thinking player, what do you see the chip grab as? Actual thinking or some dumb live antics?

3 bb bet, building a pot, I'm fine with a paired board. Hoping to keep in AJ/KJ/QJ, expect a raise some of the time from QT/T9s/TT/98s or random underpairs that "put us on AK".

 

[Kain8]

Let's lead for 2/3 pot. Happy to get it in against a button raise, but MP check-raising should be pretty concerning especially considering the betting reluctances (i.e. bluffs aren't in any villain's repertoire) of the table as a whole.

Lead for 8 - 10bb and build that pot.

 

[allforcharity]

I'm in the mind to build a pot without getting hammered by a stupid turn card. 6BB bet (about 1/2 pot).

 

[MrCatPants]

This is a smallish lead on a less dynamic board. Someone may pull a move as you could have a jack or two in your range and various pairs. Shouldnt have a 9. 1/3 to 1/2 pot c-bet and maybe someone gets cute.

Really only fear an A, J, 9, or 8 turn.

 

[Kentucky]

Is the vogue to bet small to encourage raises from 9s on this re-polarizing board? If we get only calls we can start cap villains’ ranges to single pairs or draws.
I’d go same bet, or maybe 4BB.

 

[Legend5555]

Effective stack: 56bb (Hero).

Folds to MP, who limps.
Hero in LJ next to act raises to 3.33bb with KK (suits irrelevant).
Button looks interested, grabs chips to 3 bet, then ends up tossing in a one chip call.
MP calls.

Pot: 12.5bb
Eff stack: 52.66bb

Flop:

MP checks.
Hero bets 3.33bb
Button raises to 10.83bb
MP folds.

HERO?

 

[Frogzilla]

Then raised AQ, got called by BB. Got flop bet called, and thin value bet on river called on QJT78 board and was good.

that is thin, well done.

Flop I like bet/call in Vegas, bet/3bet to 25bb in Texas. How is Georgia. Do people insist on stacking off once they’ve raised flop with stuff that is crushed by your flop 3bet range? But probably call

 

[MrCatPants]

that is thin, well done.

Flop I like bet/call in Vegas, bet/3bet to 25bb in Texas. How is Georgia. Do people insist on stacking off once they’ve raised flop with stuff that is crushed by your flop 3bet range? But probably call

Bet call. You are ahead of more Jx combos, QT/T8 combos, and pairs of Ts or worse, than you are behind (but drawing) on 9x combos.

 

[Kain8]

There aren't any feasible 9-x combos aside from A9ss that the button was considering to 3-bet given his chip movement preflop. I think we can narrow his range down to:

AJss
TT, JJ, QQ
A9ss

A re-raise commits half of Hero's stack and doesn't extract more value from weaker hands. Let's flat and see a turn.

 

[MrCatPants]

There aren't any feasible 9-x combos aside from A9ss that the button was considering to 3-bet given his chip movement preflop. I think we can narrow his range down to:

AJss
TT, JJ, QQ
A9ss

A re-raise commits half of Hero's stack and doesn't extract more value from weaker hands. Let's flat and see a turn.

T9s (bad idea but people do it) and 98s. 97s and J9s too if a looser player.

 

[RagingAZN]

As played, I'd go bet-call here, evaluate on the turn. We're in a way ahead, way behind situation I think.

I'm wondering if a little bit bigger on the flop is better? Perhaps the BTN thinks our 25% bet is weak and is raising us to get hands like KT, QT, JT, middling pocket pairs out of the way?

 

[Kentucky]

Is anyone else obsessed with working out the absolute bet sizes from these fractional Big Blinds?

I call the extra 2250 raise over our 1000 bet but proceed with caution, especially oop. We still beat value here - AJ, JT, QJ, etc. - that might play this way, plus naked draws.

 

[Frogzilla]

Is anyone else obsessed with working out the absolute bet sizes from these fractional Big Blinds?

I call the extra 2250 raise over our 1000 bet but proceed with caution, especially oop. We still beat value here - AJ, JT, QJ, etc. - that might play this way, plus naked draws.

Yes but it probably wouldn’t be 300 for the BB. Very unusual modern structure to have level 9 or 10 be 300. 1500 or 3k bb are the most likely options for being able to bet 1/3, and then the raise being able to bet 1/6 (no 25s to bet 250) eliminates 1500…I guess 3k bb

Edit: just scrolling IG and saw a hand history from level 9 of WSOP tag team that was 600/1200. 1200 makes a lot of sense too lol

 

[Legend5555]

Effective stack: 56bb (Hero).

Folds to MP, who limps.
Hero in LJ next to act raises to 3.33bb with KK (suits irrelevant).
Button looks interested, grabs chips to 3 bet, then ends up tossing in a one chip call.
MP calls.

Pot: 12.5bb
Eff stack: 52.66bb

Flop:

MP checks.
Hero bets 3.33bb
Button raises to 10.83bb
MP folds.
HERO calls.

Pot: 34.17bb
Eff stack: 41.83bb

Turn:

HERO?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

He has to still be happy with many in his range, QT/9x/JT, pray that he has JJ or J9.

What read do we have on button? Depending on my dynamic with villain I either bet small (10 bb) looking to get raised or setting up a river jam, or check to see him do the same. This card connects well with the board and he knows you're a competent player. I like the bet, leaves us with 30ish in a pot of 54ish, tough to get away from it at that point.

 

[Frogzilla]

That’s a fun card

I made myself decide somewhat quickly whether your position has a lead range (tanking to check seems like a terrible idea) and decided not really, probably have too much Jx. So check. But it wasn’t an easy decision. And not confident.

 

[Kain8]

You have to give the villain some rope now. If they check back the turn, you can try to get value on the river.

 

[Kentucky]

Bink!

I think I check in flow. K is good for the initial opener’s range but I don’t know how to construct a donking range here.
If V checks back I’m planning to overbet lead on the river. At the moment I’m trying to decide between raise-jam or call in the event Villain bets the turn.

 

[allforcharity]

10-13BB to induce at least a call, shove with any raise.

 

[MrCatPants]

Bet small. Value from 9x,JJ,q10, and even a J may float.

 

[Legend5555]

Effective stack: 56bb (Hero).

Folds to MP, who limps.
Hero in LJ next to act raises to 3.33bb with KK (suits irrelevant).
Button looks interested, grabs chips to 3 bet, then ends up tossing in a one chip call.
MP calls.

Pot: 12.5bb
Eff stack: 52.66bb

Flop:

MP checks.
Hero bets 3.33bb
Button raises to 10.83bb
MP folds.
HERO calls.

Pot: 34.17bb
Eff stack: 41.83bb

Turn:

HERO thinks and decides to check in flow.
Button checks back.

River:

HERO?

 

[krafticus]

Effective stack: 56bb (Hero).

Folds to MP, who limps.
Hero in LJ next to act raises to 3.33bb with KK (suits irrelevant).
Button looks interested, grabs chips to 3 bet, then ends up tossing in a one chip call.
MP calls.

Pot: 12.5bb
Eff stack: 52.66bb

Flop:

MP checks.
Hero bets 3.33bb
Button raises to 10.83bb
MP folds.
HERO calls.

Pot: 34.17bb
Eff stack: 41.83bb

Turn:

HERO thinks and decides to check in flow.
Button checks back.

River:

HERO?

Well, if V only has a Jack, both the K and A pretty much give you every range advantage and they may call a small bet. I’d say 1/4 pot, or all in as a scare card. Any 9 will want to get it in.

 

[Frogzilla]

All in!!!

 

[MrCatPants]

Well, if V only has a Jack, both the K and A pretty much give you every range advantage and they may call a small bet. I’d say 1/4 pot, or all in as a scare card. Any 9 will want to get it in.

Agree. Small bet for value...15 bb or so. With hand posts always the worst is assumed that this is a slow and horribly played AA, but live in game its hard to get a ton of value here from anything less than a straight.


Who covers who here?

 

[Kain8]

How much value does Hero want to go for? That's really the only question. Unless this is a bizarre cooler situation, any bet that Hero makes here is probably not getting called. You can shoot for the moon and shove, but what calls that bet? Pretty much only Jacks full will.

I'd much rather lead for 10 - 15bb. You're either securing some value from a hand that wouldn't call a shove or you can induce a raise from the Villain which of course we happily call off our stack.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

How much value does Hero want to go for? That's really the only question. Unless this is a bizarre cooler situation, any bet that Hero makes here is probably not getting called. You can shoot for the moon and shove, but what calls that bet? Pretty much only Jacks full will.

I'd much rather lead for 10 - 15bb. You're either securing some value from a hand that wouldn't call a shove or you can induce a raise from the Villain which of course we happily call off our stack.

What are you targetting with that bet? A 9?

Check on the turn lost value, do we think QT or 9x calls an overbet or shove? They've seen us as a thinking player. They slowed down by checking back, I like a big bet, polarizes us. Because you're right, we're shooting for their large made hands, their crap will fold anyways. Im scared that we bet 10 bb and he happily loses with QT or AJ, would rather make him make a bigger decision/mistake.

Could just be used to playing with apes but thats my first instinct.

 

[Kain8]

What are you targetting with that bet? A 9?

Check on the turn lost value, do we think QT or 9x calls an overbet or shove? They've seen us as a thinking player. They slowed down by checking back, I like a big bet, polarizes us. Because you're right, we're shooting for their large made hands, their crap will fold anyways. Im scared that we bet 10 bb and he happily loses with QT or AJ, would rather make him make a bigger decision/mistake.

Could just be used to playing with apes but thats my first instinct.

Seeing this hand in a vacuum I don't see Villain having any holding that is strong enough to call a shove by Hero. From my viewpoint, he doesn't have trips, a straight, or an underfull because of the actions he made preflop considering a 3-bet.

Villain would've undoubtedly 3-bet Aces preflop, but if he didn't, and managed to back into the only boat that beats us now, then good for him. That's a heck of a convoluted line to take with Aces.

A small bet can get blood from a stone, a shove can't accomplish that. If you want to target a strong enough holding to get value from your shove, then that's just as viable of course. I just feel the likelihood of said strong holding isn't that high so let's try and get a little more for our boat. And if we're wrong in our assessment, we still get the value of a shove when Villain raises back on the river.

 

[MrCatPants]

Seeing this hand in a vacuum I don't see Villain having any holding that is strong enough to call a shove by Hero. From my viewpoint, he doesn't have trips, a straight, or an underfull because of the actions he made preflop considering a 3-bet.

Villain would've undoubtedly 3-bet Aces preflop, but if he didn't, and managed to back into the only boat that beats us now, then good for him. That's a heck of a convoluted line to take with Aces.

A small bet can get blood from a stone, a shove can't accomplish that. If you want to target a strong enough holding to get value from your shove, then that's just as viable of course. I just feel the likelihood of said strong holding isn't that high so let's try and get a little more for our boat. And if we're wrong in our assessment, we still get the value of a shove when Villain raises back on the river.

Small bet gets called probably 80% of the time given the flop action, and a very small percentage of the time we are losing to 99 or AA if it's a shove over the top and so we are calling any shove.

Large bet probably only gets called 25% of the time and by a much higher percentage of those two hands above.

Risk weighted, I agree it's small size for sure.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Small bet gets called probably 80% of the time given the flop action, and a very small percentage of the time we are losing to 99 or AA if it's a shove over the top and so we are calling any shove.

Large bet probably only gets called 25% of the time and by a much higher percentage of those two hands above.

Risk weighted, I agree it's small size for sure.

Well said, thanks you and @Kain8. I'm guilty of missing out on smaller values and swinging for the big hands. I think 80% is high but youre right its better for our tourney stack in general.