Ordering Links

ReallyGoodUsername

Straight Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
7,521
Reaction score
9,690
Location
Boston
I hope someone with some actual experience with 'em in a Shuffletech will chime in. I'm thinking about getting one, so I'd love to hear it.

If you're only getting one jam in about 8 hrs, I'd call that pretty d*mn decent. I've seen the hi-dollar Shuffle Master Deckmates have about the same in casino sessions.

All that being said, I can give you a description of what I feel are the major differences & you can try to make a judgement call on what you may think will work best if no one else chimes in... if that'll help any.

(Note - weights listed below are for poker size cards)

Copag are what I consider "better than typical" for a PVC card. Probably the most flexible of the PVC lot. But, still have that smooth-ish almost semi-gloss PVC finish that I don't generally care for. WEIGHT: 2.50 gr. / THICK: .0115"

When it comes to Desjgn.... umm.... well, we now (unfortunately IMO) have 2 versions. The reason is well documented here: Bridge/Jumbo Index Issue

The "older" version (printed on Modiano stock) are one of my two favorite decks of all time. If I had the cash, I'd buy-up whatever remaining stock of jumbo index poker size is out there for the taking. Yes,... seriously. They hand shuffle like warm butter, & dealing is a no-brainer process. I can count the number of times I've accidentally dealt 2 cards on a single pitch on the fingers of one hand. & I may not even need all 5 fingers to do it either. (& in case you didn't notice my post above, that goes all the way back to 2006)

Compared to Copags, they're cellulose acetate, not PVC. Which means they're lighter & more flexible even while being ever-so-slightly thicker. They also have a gorgeous matte linen finish putting the feel & looks right up there with Kem (which are my other favorite - I just wish they'd get their Joker to stop picking his nose). WEIGHT: 2.43 gr / THICK: .0120"

The "new" Desjgn (& I hope Jason doesn't hate me for this) have slid back to be the bronze medal spot on my podium. In all fairness, it's not Jason's fault. Modiano couldn't put on their big-boy pants long enough to own up to the fact that they screwed the QC pooch. This sent Jason to that other Italian mob Dal Negro for replacements. Being that I'm in the USofA, I've never actually had any prior experience with DN's acetate stock cards. If you've ever tried to find a deck of 'em in these parts you'd know why. Assuming that the new Desjgns are on that card stock, & if I'm being honest, I don't get the hype.

As stated, they are cellulose acetate, but compared to Copag, they are thicker & slightly stiffer. Also, the finish is much more "textured" than the Modiano stock. I've only dealt one final table with 'em, but I did have to catch myself a couple times before I accidentally pitched two cards, something that I rarely do with Kems or the older Modiano stock decks. So, while the older decks were slightly thicker, yet lighter & more flexible, the new Dal Negro stock is thicker, heavier, and somewhat stiffer than Copag. And, while neither are as smooth finished as Copag's PVC, the new stock is "rougher" or "more textured" than the linen finish of old. WEIGHT: 2.66 gr / THICK: .0130"

If you think you may want to try both old & new, Jason still has (I believe the count is now 28 not 29 - I bought a set) some of the old Classic Victorian (poker size - jumbo index) old stock left in the Wyvern/Phoenix (brown/orange) color combo.

Having said all that, let me add this.... if customer service means anything, nobody on the planet beats Jason. As anyone that ended up with a pooched deck of the last Modiano run will attest to.
@sheikh617
 

Dix

High Hand
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
77
Reaction score
69
Location
W.Poland, Maine
so the poker size cards are currently out of stock, correct? Can we put a reserve on a set?
Not out of stock as far as I know, I just ordered 3 sets a couple weeks ago.

Just go to page one of this topic & use the links.

Classic Flourish (poker size, regular index)
Classic Victorian (poker size, jumbo index)
 

sheikh617

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
2,004
Reaction score
3,290
Location
Boston, MA
I hope someone with some actual experience with 'em in a Shuffletech will chime in. I'm thinking about getting one, so I'd love to hear it.

If you're only getting one jam in about 8 hrs, I'd call that pretty d*mn decent. I've seen the hi-dollar Shuffle Master Deckmates have about the same in casino sessions.

All that being said, I can give you a description of what I feel are the major differences & you can try to make a judgement call on what you may think will work best if no one else chimes in... if that'll help any.

(Note - weights listed below are for poker size cards)

Copag are what I consider "better than typical" for a PVC card. Probably the most flexible of the PVC lot. But, still have that smooth-ish almost semi-gloss PVC finish that I don't generally care for. WEIGHT: 2.50 gr. / THICK: .0115"

When it comes to Desjgn.... umm.... well, we now (unfortunately IMO) have 2 versions. The reason is well documented here: Bridge/Jumbo Index Issue

The "older" version (printed on Modiano stock) are one of my two favorite decks of all time. If I had the cash, I'd buy-up whatever remaining stock of jumbo index poker size is out there for the taking. Yes,... seriously. They hand shuffle like warm butter, & dealing is a no-brainer process. I can count the number of times I've accidentally dealt 2 cards on a single pitch on the fingers of one hand. & I may not even need all 5 fingers to do it either. (& in case you didn't notice my post above, that goes all the way back to 2006)

Compared to Copags, they're cellulose acetate, not PVC. Which means they're lighter & more flexible even while being ever-so-slightly thicker. They also have a gorgeous matte linen finish putting the feel & looks right up there with Kem (which are my other favorite - I just wish they'd get their Joker to stop picking his nose). WEIGHT: 2.43 gr / THICK: .0120"

The "new" Desjgn (& I hope Jason doesn't hate me for this) have slid back to be the bronze medal spot on my podium. In all fairness, it's not Jason's fault. Modiano couldn't put on their big-boy pants long enough to own up to the fact that they screwed the QC pooch. This sent Jason to that other Italian mob Dal Negro for replacements. Being that I'm in the USofA, I've never actually had any prior experience with DN's acetate stock cards. If you've ever tried to find a deck of 'em in these parts you'd know why. Assuming that the new Desjgns are on that card stock, & if I'm being honest, I don't get the hype.

As stated, they are cellulose acetate, but compared to Copag, they are thicker & slightly stiffer. Also, the finish is much more "textured" than the Modiano stock. I've only dealt one final table with 'em, but I did have to catch myself a couple times before I accidentally pitched two cards, something that I rarely do with Kems or the older Modiano stock decks. So, while the older decks were slightly thicker, yet lighter & more flexible, the new Dal Negro stock is thicker, heavier, and somewhat stiffer than Copag. And, while neither are as smooth finished as Copag's PVC, the new stock is "rougher" or "more textured" than the linen finish of old. WEIGHT: 2.66 gr / THICK: .0130"

If you think you may want to try both old & new, Jason still has (I believe the count is now 28 not 29 - I bought a set) some of the old Classic Victorian (poker size - jumbo index) old stock left in the Wyvern/Phoenix (brown/orange) color combo.

Having said all that, let me add this.... if customer service means anything, nobody on the planet beats Jason. As anyone that ended up with a pooched deck of the last Modiano run will attest to.
I pretty much exclusively use poker sized card in my Shuffletech as I have had mixed results with bridge sized cards. Last night I had a session from 7pm up until about 3am. Not a single jam that required manual attention, the shuffler worked itself each time if there was a small snag. I'd say most sessions go by smooth and I usually only host games from 3-5 hours so the sample size is a bit smaller then if your game is running for hours on end. With Bridge cards I had a slightly higher percentage of jams since the cards don't fill the slot as well as poker sized cards do. For me the Shuffletech has been a home run purchase thus far. It'll be sad when it needs maintenance lol. I also make sure to keep the rollers clean with alcohol wipes and I use an air duster to keep the innards clean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dix

Klobberer

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
1,593
Reaction score
1,684
Location
West Chester, PA
Just got mine and they are nice. They are much rougher textured than all of my other setups. They take longer to shuffle because I use the "riffle the corner and push them together" method. Do they get smoother with age? They are great for magic tricks where you don't want the cards sliding around.
 

desjgn

Two Pair
Site Vendor
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
499
Reaction score
1,994
Location
Salt Lake City
so the poker size cards are currently out of stock, correct? Can we put a reserve on a set?
You are able to purchase any of the decks listed in the first post. If quantities are low for a specific card style, it is also noted.
 
Last edited:

Dix

High Hand
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
77
Reaction score
69
Location
W.Poland, Maine
For me the Shuffletech has been a home run purchase thus far. It'll be sad when it needs maintenance lol.
OK, OK, stop twisting my arm, I give up!!! LOL

Seriously, thanks for that. I'm convinced... well... I was leaning that way anyway, so it didn't really take much to push me over the edge.

If I happen to not make the FT, I've always volunteered to deal the FT with either my wife or the TD sitting at a small table behind me as the "shuffler" of a second deck. Since I'm taking over as TD I'll always be dealing the FT now, & having one on a small cart kind of makes sense.

I hear you on the service deal... I've heard their customer service kind of blows. But, unless you want to spend 10x that on a used Shufflemaster it's kind of the only game in town.

At any rate, thanks again.... & I guess we can stop hijacking Jason's turf & return everyone to their regularly scheduled card sales infomercials. :D
 

Lipnbass

Pair
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
95
Location
Maine
Just ordered a set of the Classic Baroque Bridge sized Jumbo. Looking forward to playing with these. Normaly use poker size but it sounds like a lot of people prefer the bridge size.
 

200 Motels

Flush
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
1,649
Reaction score
1,065
Location
Canada - East-->
Finally got a deck of 4 color Desjgn in play last night. They feel a lot different than the Desjgn poker size (not just because the 4 color are bridge size) but they felt smoother/less textured and a little stiffer. I tried to make a crimp in the joker just to test the durability and it was very durable only bending with very forceful use and it bent back into shape easily.
 

Undream

Pair
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
111
Reaction score
173
Location
Adrian, MI
Inaugural night with the shuffletech report:

I purchase two sets of Desjn cards. A set of the older Modiano poker size, and a set of the newer dal negro. I ripped open one deck of each.

Before my game I ran each set through the shuffletech 3-4 times without troubles... So figured I was in good shape.

Night started. A few people immediately noticed new cards at the table.

In the first hour of play, the Modiano deck jammed two times. I was able to recover both with a quick nudge of a few cards in the shuffletech with my hand. The Dal Negro deck also jammed twice in the first hour. One was a quick fix. The other time, several cards managed to turn 90 degrees in the shuffler, I had to take out all the cards manually and do a hard reset on it. I was convinced I would be switching back to copags.. but I decided to given them another half an hour.

To my pleasant surprise, the next 5 hours were flawless. No jams. No issues.

So, on to the report from my players, and me.

Personally, I liked the Modiano cards. I think I am in agreement with @Dix in that if I was hand shuffling these things would absolutely be preferred.

That said, the vote from my players ( we had a full table of 10!!) Was for the Dal Negro. They thought they felt sturdier and really liked the texture.

Honestly, they are both awesome in their own way.

I am hoping that the shuffletech continues to play nice with them as we use them for a few more sessions.

Thanks @desjgn !!
 

Dix

High Hand
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
77
Reaction score
69
Location
W.Poland, Maine
To my pleasant surprise, the next 5 hours were flawless. No jams. No issues.
Maybe just a little "break-in" of a fresh deck is in order?

Personally, I liked the Modiano cards. I think I am in agreement with @Dix in that if I was hand shuffling these things would absolutely be preferred.

That said, the vote from my players ( we had a full table of 10!!) Was for the Dal Negro. They thought they felt sturdier and really liked the texture.
Dealer likes one, players like the other.... Probably not the 1st time in history for that. :D
 
Top Bottom