My First Time Catching a Cheat (Yes, Really)

SpaceMonkey420

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It's still idiotic.

One might argue gambling with friends and co workers or gambling in any form is idiotic. What about not letting a dealer play the game/hand he’s dealing? Tks for your opinion as one individual who I never play with. I’ll deff take that into consideration.
 
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ReallyGoodUsername

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It's still idiotic.
Screen Shot 2020-10-18 at Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 6.04.11 PM.png
 

Jimulacrum

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Bypassing this whole sidetrack about pre-dealing the board (crazy talk), Chuck has not been back, as far as I know. The incident in question happened right before Coronageddon hit. My weekly game eventually migrated to an online app, and I've only played there since. Chuck is not part of that group.

The host has begun hosting live games again, but I haven't been back yet, so I can't say for sure if Chuck has made an appearance, or tried. I doubt it, though.
 

MatB

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Fun thread.

I think OP handled it best he could. Considering it wasn’t his game
I do keep thinking if Jim handnt said anything how much more cheating this guy would have done.
And yeah, how many years has this guy been doing it ? With friends/ co workers no less ?
yikes

we still don’t know if @72o unmasked ‘Chuck’ at his game yet...... that’s a cliffhanger

Cheater gonna cheat. Not even sure if it’s about the money for them. Especially at those stakes
Wynona Ryder shoplifting comes to mind.

oh well.
 

Jimulacrum

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Fun thread.

I think OP handled it best he could. Considering it wasn’t his game
I do keep thinking if Jim handnt said anything how much more cheating this guy would have done.
And yeah, how many years has this guy been doing it ? With friends/ co workers no less ?
yikes

we still don’t know if @72o unmasked ‘Chuck’ at his game yet...... that’s a cliffhanger

Cheater gonna cheat. Not even sure if it’s about the money for them. Especially at those stakes
Wynona Ryder shoplifting comes to mind.

oh well.
Pretty sure this dude had been cheating for a very long time, almost certainly predating my attendance, but of course it's also possible it was a recent development. I have no real way to be sure.

It's a very friendly, laid-back game. We often eat dinner together before we play. Everyone knows each other, people are often drinking and smoking weed, and generally it's not a serious scene. It's the kind of game where cutting the deck is weird, and most players will rap the table and say things like "I trust you" if you offer. No one was really looking out for cheating. FFS the max buy-in is $20.
 

SpaceMonkey420

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Pretty sure this dude had been cheating for a very long time, almost certainly predating my attendance, but of course it's also possible it was a recent development. I have no real way to be sure.

It's a very friendly, laid-back game. We often eat dinner together before we play. Everyone knows each other, people are often drinking and smoking weed, and generally it's not a serious scene. It's the kind of game where cutting the deck is weird, and most players will rap the table and say things like "I trust you" if you offer. No one was really looking out for cheating. FFS the max buy-in is $20.
So Sad. Sounds like that guy needs serious help. God bless the other players for keeping it cool.
 

trigs

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Some people just can't stop themselves even for little money. Just read an article about a female dealer in Ontario that lost her job because she was caught cheating at another casino. They said she was cheating at table games and most likely won $20 she wasn't entitled to. $20 ffs.
 

Jimulacrum

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Some people just can't stop themselves even for little money. Just read an article about a female dealer in Ontario that lost her job because she was caught cheating at another casino. They said she was cheating at table games and most likely won $20 she wasn't entitled to. $20 ffs.
To play devil's advocate, that's $20 in free money, though (if you're foolish enough to ignore the risks). If you get it by cheating, it's practically like they're giving it away. And to take it from a casino is extra-sweet, since casinos are universally monuments to exploiting people through less-than-honest means.

Not gonna lie, if I knew I could cheat a casino's house-edge games reliably without facing consequences, I would be quite tempted. I've always found the idea fascinating and have watched a bunch of documentaries on the topic, whether it's about flashing slot machines or using physics software to predict roulette spins before the betting window closes.

Clearly I have a love-hate sort of relationship with casinos. I appreciate casino chips, love poker, and am knowledgeable about most games, but I also understand the math behind what they're doing. I get why they have to do it to remain solvent businesses, of course, but the whole thing kinda stinks. The average gambler thinks he's just riding the waves of luck or whatever, when in reality he's steadily dumping an average of $0.75 per bet he places, and the riggedness of the game is concealed by those waves of luck.

Anyway, long story short, I can understand people who want to beat the casino at its own games, by hook or by crook. The casino is basically asking for it.

People who cheat at poker, however, are a whole other breed, and especially home poker. To come back week after week and pretend to be friends with people you're actively stealing from is unconscionable.
 

One Eyed Dollar

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The comedy FM station had a great bit with Craig Ferguson one time, where he told a story how somebody in LA apologized to him for the awful stereotype of Groundskeeper Willie. His response was really funny. "First of all, that's a cartoon. It's not offensive. And secondly, Willie is in shape and has a job. I don't know how much you know about Scotland, but he is doing pretty well!" :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 

BonScot

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The comedy FM station had a great bit with Craig Ferguson one time, where he told a story how somebody in LA apologized to him for the awful stereotype of Groundskeeper Willie. His response was really funny. "First of all, that's a cartoon. It's not offensive. And secondly, Willie is in shape and has a job. I don't know how much you know about Scotland, but he is doing pretty well!" :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
He used to do stand up over here under the name Bing Hitler. If you can find some of his stuff it’s just him trying to see how much he could offend the audience.
He went to college with Peter Capaldi who was Dr. Who. The Capaldis owned the ice cream van that came to my street when I was wee. So by default me and craig Ferguson are BFFs :LOL: :laugh:

@WedgeRock this is another one of my “stay on target” stories
 

CrazyEddie

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Jim, I appreciate your posting about this incident and your related philosophical musings.

I think you're absolutely right, that for a certain mindset the allure of cheating simply because you can is nearly irresistible. This is, basically, the hacker mindset. There is an ostensibly smart opponent (whoever has set up and is operating the target computer system or network) BUT "I'm even smarter than they are, and have spotted a weakness that I can cleverly exploit!" Even the good guys in computer security have this mindset, not just the bad guys. And honestly, anyone without that mindset to at least some degree is probably not a very good poker player.

That said, there's a second mindset that goes along with it, and which makes the difference between the bad guy hackers and the good guy computer security professionals. The bad guys - criminals - have an immense ability to rationalize and justify what they do.

We all do, actually; it's human nature. I should rather say that criminals lack the ability to overcome their rationalizing and thereby understand the actual consequences of their actions.

I've lied, cheated, and stolen. I'm not proud of it, but I was at the time, because I was showing off (to myself, mostly) how clever I was. And it was kind of thrilling. And funny. I didn't feel bad about it at all, because I "knew" it was no big deal. It was basically the equivalent of sneaking into a concert; it cost the "victim" (a corporation) basically nothing, nobody got hurt, etc etc. No big deal.

That was flat-out rationalization.

I'm guessing that Chuck was likewise cheating at low-stakes poker because it was rewarding - not financially, but emotionally. And I'm guessing that he had a rock-solid rationalization for it, so that he went home and slept soundly at night, comfortable knowing he wasn't a bad person, not really, at least no worse than anybody else. He deserved to cheat. It was his right to cheat. The other guys wouldn't understand, exactly, but they wouldn't really care... after all, it's just a little prank between friends.

Or whatever.

The easiest person to fool is always yourself.

Casinos do indeed run a suckers' game. The people who gamble on slots or craps or whatever are getting ripped off. But be really careful about feeling like Robin Hood. That's rationalization too, and it leads to no good ends.
 

Jimulacrum

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Casinos do indeed run a suckers' game. The people who gamble on slots or craps or whatever are getting ripped off. But be really careful about feeling like Robin Hood. That's rationalization too, and it leads to no good ends.
My thing with casinos is that I want to see people beat them. On a lower-stakes level, I feel the same about carnival swindlers and their rigged games. When I know I can beat one of them, I will sometimes do it just for the sake of doing it, even if I don't care for the prizes. It all goes to my sense of fairness and justice. They deceive people out of their money, plain and simple, and if folks can beat them at their own game, that sounds excellent.

You make a good point here, though. While I do want to see rigged game operators lose, I don't like the idea of being a cheat myself. It's dirty and, as you said, is likely to lead nowhere good.
 
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