My First Time Catching a Cheat (Yes, Really)

StatTracker

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Thanks for sharing this @Jimulacrum

I am quite a nitpicky host with my game. I DO NOT allow cards to leave the table. I have a few guys that harmlessly lift their whole cards off the table, and I gently remind them NOT to.

I despise when the dealer is lazy either not using the cut card on the underside, or just is a mess with burn cards. My ultimate pet peeve are misdeals... anyways...

At the end of the day, angle shooters (cheats) will continue to shoot until they are caught... the consequences can be severe.

I heard a story about a baccarat game that had one angle-shooter replacing decks that were supposedly sealed decks and winning a ton. HOW? well the supposed sealed decks had been marked with luminous blue dye... blank to the naked eye, but this guy wore contacts that allowed him to see the backs of the cards so he knew what was coming.... How did it turn out? Not sure....
I've heard of these contacts and decks. There's this youtube channel promoting these sorts of things and it's amazing the technology that exists. Gotta be careful, procedures are designed to protect the game! Ensure that if you are a game host, you are aware of what they are and what they look like https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSfPx7XCJLn00f5Gn_UTo8A

That being said, mis-deals happen. They suck, but are a part of a human-dealt game.
 

SpaceMonkey420

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Another thing people can use. Some games here we deal
The flop, burns, turns, and rivers face down all in one motion. The 5 cards sit face down and are flipped over and revealed as needed. This reduces time, bottom dealing, confusion, and lookie lous.
 

Mr Winberg

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Another thing people can use. Some games here we deal
The flop, burns, turns, and rivers face down all in one motion. The 5 cards sit face down and are flipped over and revealed as needed. This reduces time, bottom dealing, confusion, and lookie lous.
A few questions:
  1. If using this approach, why do you bother with burns?
  2. What if the turn or river card has a slight dent or whatever that a single player has noticed? I.e. he can see that his gutshot will hit on the river.
  3. How long reaction time do you have if the dealer prematurely decides to expose the turn or river (due to not paying enough attention). 0.5 seconds? Because when burning, the table has enough time to stop the dealer. I actually always tell my players that it's the their own fault if the dealer exposes a card prematurely and they didn't stop him, they should've shouted while he was burning. (It's of course the dealers fault, but it keeps the players on their toes)
 

SpaceMonkey420

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1. We burn to keep the deck order pure to shuffle and cut.
2. I see any dents we throw the cards out. I buy them from Josh for cheap.
3. It’s the same time. I have not noticed one mess up anymore then we would holding the “stub” with the fraction of a second extra. A brain fart is a brain fart.
 

Mr Winberg

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1. This is turning a bit philosophical now :) but it's your game, why would the deck order be purer with the burns than without? If you just made a house rule that said "we don't burn", then what would be the problem with that? Per definition (of your house rule), the order would be pure.
2. I think you misread. I wrote "a single player". E.g. Mr McSneaky (a stand-up guy you all love and trust) notices the scratch and doesn't tell anyone. His gutshot will hit on the river, and he's facing an all-in on the flop...
3. It's actually not the same time. Try flipping over a card, then try dealing a burn card face down and then dealing a card face up, and compare. I'm speaking from a lot of experience now: In the first, the players start shouting when it's too late. Always. In the second the dealer can often be stopped most of the time.

And if you hire dealers, surely they ought to be able to follow protocol?

Listen, I'm not trying to be a dick, but there are reasons for burning which I have alluded to. They are good reasons. The only reason left for burning if doing it your way is to make it just a little bit harder to set the deck
 

SpaceMonkey420

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Ya that sounds like a good house rule to me. I don’t think I’d object. Six one half dozen the other. When we hire dealers they sometimes get lazy/faded/And we encourage it. We let them decide and they often change it up. Sometimes they go potty and deal it out. Some times they wait. As far as the scratch on the card. I don’t play with shady people. My friends pride ourselves on that. Besides they need more then a scratch on a few cards to beat me. I’m the GOAT. It is what it is. Im just that confident in my ability in the game. I’ve sat on many many many final tables including a WPT live stream. I also would notice the scratch and every breath they take after they noticed it. Just who I am and I suggest always doing what is best for your area. We sometimes prefer to just deal it out.
 

Mr Winberg

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Hey, don't get me wrong, you should of course continue hosting the way you see fit. It's just that when someone looking for advice reads these threads, it's important that they see both sides of things so they can make educated decisions (not all of us are GOATS! ;)) That's why I think it's important to write opposing views where I think they are needed, it's not necessarily to try to change your mind. Like, if someone suggested T10 starting stacks of 12/2/15/2, I would respond with a (IMO) better suggestion.

Not entirely sure how the whole WPT thing was relevant, but hey, you keep stacking them chips! :tup:
 

BGinGA

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Another thing people can use. Some games here we deal
The flop, burns, turns, and rivers face down all in one motion. The 5 cards sit face down and are flipped over and revealed as needed. This reduces time, bottom dealing, confusion, and lookie lous.
That's idiotic.
 

SpaceMonkey420

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Hey, don't get me wrong, you should of course continue hosting the way you see fit. It's just that when someone looking for advice reads these threads, it's important that they see both sides of things so they can make educated decisions (not all of us are GOATS! ;)) That's why I think it's important to write opposing views where I think they are needed, it's not necessarily to try to change your mind. Like, if someone suggested T10 starting stacks of 12/2/15/2, I would respond with a (IMO) better suggestion.

Not entirely sure how the whole WPT thing was relevant, but hey, you keep stacking them chips! :tup:
It means I can beat hundred of pros who travel and play. Pretty sure the neighbor home players can cheat and still not beat me. Yes. I put my money where my mouth is. LMK. I’ll gladly give shots at the title. Pack a lunch.
 
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Mr Winberg

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That's idiotic.
It might seem so at a first glance, but when you start scratching the surface and find out that
I’m the GOAT. It is what it is. Im just that confident in my ability in the game. I’ve sat on many many many final tables including a WPT live stream.
then you realize the standardized process for dealing might not be as good as we once thought!

Mr Winberg will now change the dealing process at his home game. Hopefully, Mr Winberg can then come closer to the money, even though Mr Winberg is very pleased with his last performance where he outlasted 13 players, taking down several seasoned semi pros, to secure an 8th place finish, not too far from the money!
 

SpaceMonkey420

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It might seem so at a first glance, but when you start scratching the surface and find out that

then you realize the standardized process for dealing might not be as good as we once thought!

Mr Winberg will now change the dealing process at his home game. Hopefully, Mr Winberg can then come closer to the money, even though Mr Winberg is very pleased with his last performance where he outlasted 13 players, taking down several seasoned semi pros, to secure an 8th place finish, not too far from the money!
In your case u might also try scratching the cards. ASAP. Keep in mind U still won’t beat me, but u can tell your grandkids u got beat by one of the best.
 

raynmanas

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Another thing people can use. Some games here we deal
The flop, burns, turns, and rivers face down all in one motion. The 5 cards sit face down and are flipped over and revealed as needed. This reduces time, bottom dealing, confusion, and lookie lous.

You are defeating the entire purpose of burn cards. We are in a thread about cheats, and you are advocating for a dealing method that makes it easier for cheats to cheat.
 
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SpaceMonkey420

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You are defeating the entire purpose of burn cards. We are in a thread about cheats, and you are advocating for a dealing method that makes it easier for cheats to cheat.
Advocating? Clearly not the case. I simply offered a dealing option I currently see being used successfully. Not sure about u city folks but thank God I live in nor cal. Been playing here 20 years almost daily,
Deff weekly and I haven’t even heard of a cheater for miles. Not once.
 

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F... k Chuck. Aside from the money he ruined everybody's mood and escape from everyday problems.
 

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Ya that sounds like a good house rule to me. I don’t think I’d object. Six one half dozen the other. When we hire dealers they sometimes get lazy/faded/And we encourage it. We let them decide and they often change it up. Sometimes they go potty and deal it out. Some times they wait. As far as the scratch on the card. I don’t play with shady people. My friends pride ourselves on that. Besides they need more then a scratch on a few cards to beat me. I’m the GOAT. It is what it is. Im just that confident in my ability in the game. I’ve sat on many many many final tables including a WPT live stream. I also would notice the scratch and every breath they take after they noticed it. Just who I am and I suggest always doing what is best for your area. We sometimes prefer to just deal it out.

are you Chuck?
 

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In any game I host, I have a dedicated dealer. The guys that deal at my games have been dealing for years, are trustworthy and awesome dealers. Players never touch the decks. This is great for game speed and to avoid a problem situation. In my opinion, dedicated dealers are a great Idea for any size game. U would be surprised at the number of people that will take on that job for a few tips or contributions from the players. I also use a new set up each game And will insert a new set up during a game if the cards are getting creased. Just some thoughts.
 

surfik

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Fun story. I was running 1 or 2 table cash game in one of the Warsaw clubs. Nice people, about 20 people rotating regular players. We usually met Friday and Saturday for about 6 hour long sessions. Sometimes we were visited by self proclaimed "pros" looking for easy money. I am proud to say they almost never were living with smile on their faces, blaming our blinds or style of game, or any of many excuses they could think about. We had also our share of visiting drunks or weirdos (one player came with his own shuffleing machine and insisted on using that if he was about to play, that was funny as machine was heavy, I had also some people insisting on using fresh deck but I was fine with that).
One time we had a very curious visitor. A young guy approached me saying that he is a casino dealer and asked if I allowe him to deal cards whole night just for tips. I thought that he is just looking for some extra money so I said that sure we can do that. He sat and start dealing but after few hours I have noticed that as friendly as he is and really good dealer he is very often asking people to take a peek at their hand if showdown did not occurred. Some people obliged him, some did not. This happened for a few evenings. Some Friday he showed up and said that he wanted to play with us. I smiled and said no. So that was his cleaver plan. He never came again....
 
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