Moving violation? (1 Viewer)

joepro

joepro

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I got a ticket in PA going in to work, same route I take every day. The officer said I did a "2 for 1" at a stop sign, meaning I followed the car in front of me and didn't come to a stop at the sign. Look at the picture and see there are actually two signs at this on-ramp. I came to a complete stop with a car in front of me. Am I supposed to stop at each stop sign?

256203
 
Cops are assholes (not all but in general). If you have the time I’d challenge it and you’ll win 95% of the time. Just read up on the process in that particular jurisdiction as each one has its own appeal/hearing process.
 
I live in Pittsburgh pa and have never seen a stop sign on a on ramp, let alone two. Ours are only yield signs. And to have two signs it would be rather confusing.

If it were me I plead not guilty. Go to the magistrate and fight it if you believe you stopped. Even if you didn't fully stop, you still have a fighting chance. More than likely the cop won't show up to the hearing. The magistrate will offer you plea to reduce points and citation. Most people don't know that the cop must be present for the charges to be upheld. If he doesn't show, you simply ask the judge to have it postponed or thrown out since your accuser isn't present. That dialouge was told to me straight from a state trooper family friend. Hope that helps you out.
 
ReallyGoodUsername said:
Cops are assholes (not all but in general). If you have the time I’d challenge it and you’ll win 95% of the time. Just read up on the process in that particular jurisdiction as each one has its own appeal/hearing process.
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Sorry bro but that may be one of the most asinine comments I've seen on here. As a person that has 2 immediate family members in law enforcement, and several dozen friends, I can't let that pass. Until you spend a day in their shoes I wouldn't judge. Are SOME assholes.....yes but to say that in general they are all assholes is pretty narrow minded and tells me you dont know much about what they do on a daily basis.

As to the OP that looks like a pretty effed up spot for a stop sign(s). I agree I've out never seeing that type of situation. I've seen alternating stop lights used during rush hour with explicit signage. I would probably attempt fight that if I had the time
 
Not worth the discussion on here sorry for generalizing and use of “assholes” which I agree is a overly charged word and not the right one to use. My opinions are based on my personal experiences and cops I know from cousins/friends/and uncles who are cops. Instead of slinging poop here, if anyone would like to PM me and have a meaningful discussion I would be highly receptive to it.

In the mean time, goodbye thread and good luck with the ticket!
 
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I'd fight it. If I saw that I would think it was one stop, not two stops less than a truck length apart. Making the 2nd stop, without stop lines painted on the concrete, increases the chances of being rear-ended and pushed into the highway traffic.

While I won't agree with the "cops are assholes" statement, any cop writing you up for this ticky-tac offence has earned the moniker.
 
I don’t think they are expecting everyone to stop at both signs. If I read the OP correctly, it sounds like the only time you stopped was when the car in front of you stopped at the stop sign. That’s probably why the cop pulled you over.

Also, I think the stop sign on the on-ramp serves the same purpose as a traffic light on an on-ramp. It serves to stagger the vehicles coming onto the highway.
 
joepro said:
I got a ticket in PA going in to work, same route I take every day. The officer said I did a "2 for 1" at a stop sign, meaning I followed the car in front of me and didn't come to a stop at the sign. Look at the picture and see there are actually two signs at this on-ramp. I came to a complete stop with a car in front of me. Am I supposed to stop at each stop sign?
Click to expand...
I agree with others that the 2 staggered stop signs makes it confusing. I'd challenge it. But before you do, (and since you take the same route each day) I'd recommend taking a better picture(s) with your camera, instead of just the Google street view version.

And if any of these arguments helps, feel free to use them: (And, yes, years ago I used to work in the field of transportation/traffic engineering, which is a branch under civil engineering):
  1. It seems like a driver almost needs to stop at the sign further back, to allow enough ramp ahead to safely accelerate to gain enough speed to merge into the traffic on the highway with a ___ MPH speed limit.
  2. Sometimes a wide white colored line (a.k.a. a "stop bar") is painted across the travel lane to define to motorists where to stop. For access onto a higher speed limit road, like a highway, that stop bar should stand out and probably be a 12" to 24" thick line. I didn't see anything painted on the ground at this location.
  3. You could also write a letter (or online request?) to the local public works or PennDOT office (if it's a state road) and maybe copy the local police office, explaining that the existing set up is confusing with the stop signs staggered ___ feet in front of the other one, and request that either
    • the signs be moved to be closer to directly across from each other,
    • a stop bar line be painted on the ground, or both,
    • which should more clearly define the point at which vehicles should be stopping, and to reduce confusion for both motorists and for police officers
To me, this is a situation where the signage and/or paint markings do not give motorists clear direction on exactly where to stop.

(I'm not saying this is necessarily the case at this spot, but there are times when police or parking enforcement have pinpointed confusing intersections/roads as a place to give out tickets to motorists, instead of alerting the public works/transportation officials that motorists are confused, and to have the public works/transportation divisions solve the issue with better signage placement and/or striping at an intersection.
 
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I tried not to be too biased in the OP, because I am planning to fight it and I need to know I'm not crazy. Most cops I know are cool but this guy was not. He said he had to give me a ticket because it's a high accident area, but I agree that the two stop sign arrangement probably makes it worse. I told the cop politely that I work right across the street from where he pulled me over, which I think matters, but instead my coworkers got a show as they arrived for work.
 
Poker Zombie said:
Making the 2nd stop, without stop lines painted on the concrete, increases the chances of being rear-ended and pushed into the highway traffic.
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Totally agree. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the accidents are caused by the placement of the two stop signs, staggered far apart. (It is often good to have two stop signs on both sides of a busy/high accident road, but not staggered where it creates a situation where motorists aren't clear on where to stop.)

joepro said:
He said he had to give me a ticket because it's a high accident area,
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I think you can use these arguments in your favor to get out of the ticket. It's not the officers fault that he's been assigned to monitor the intersection (and write tickets?) because it's a high accident area, that the accidents may be the effect of the two stop signs staggered far apart and lack of a paint marking/stop bar that makes it unclear to motorists exactly where they should stop.

When a better solution (and a solution that police office is not necessarily thinking of), might be to have a transportation engineer/designer evaluate the intersection for signage, sight distance visibility of drivers at the stop sign, placement of signs, paint markings, cause of accidents, etc. to see if there might be a traffic design solution that might help alleviate the issue causing the accidents.
 
Cops are idiots 95% of the time... who wants that job, idiots.

Go to court, flash your junk, it'll get you off, I know, my uncle owns a circus midget. Damn straight.
 
If that's about her coming after you with a frying pan, don't be surprised if this becomes exhibit "A".

...and if you played her in a game of Diplomacy, she'll skate free for sure! :tup:
 
Pre-Formal hearing... Speeding violation.

Sidenote: Wifey was pulled over on her way to pick up my (then 15 year old) son's girlfriend.

:banghead:

Sidenote 2: Said girlfriend's father is a police officer in a local municipality.

:banghead::banghead:

Sidenote 3: Mrs. WedgeRock was pulled over in a well-known speed trap.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
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WedgeRock said:
Pre-Formal hearing... Speeding violation.
Click to expand...

Plymouth is terrible about issuing speeding tickets. Funny story... Some years back (June 30th, 1997 to be exact) I was about to get my first job with a Fire Dept. One of the requirements was a clean driving record. No tickets. About a week before my interview (which includes the background check) I got a pulled over by a Plymouth cop, for "cornering too fast" (I was in a van , loaded with film boxes, and none of the stacks - or the van - tipped, but I digress).

I told the officer my situation. Interview, can't get a ticket... I'm sure they hear all kinds of excuses, but I was being legit. He went back to his car, and when he returned, he handed me the ticket and said "It comes off your record in 3 years. Re-apply then. In the meantime, drive like your Grandma."

My dream, shattered. Two days later, the courthouse was struck by lightning, and burned to the ground. I never got a summons to appear, and I got the job.

I guess that was my "one time". That, or fate loves irony.
 
What is the speed limit on the through way? I'd argue a couple points. If the stop sign on the left is for your traffic and you are indeed supposed to stop at it, being on the left shouldn't it have a light accompanying it? As a rule road signs are posted on the right. Like the stop sign up ahead. To further that, if it is a functioning stop sign should it not also have a solid white line on the road?
Logically speaking what is the fucking point of having two separate stops signs in these locations when there isn't any merging traffic/opposing traffic between them.
I'd argue that if the two stop signs are indeed necessary the fly away is either non existent or not long enough. That road isn't safe. An issue for your public works to address. But having standing traffic merge into quick traffic is always a terrible idea.
 
Sure... It got struck by lightning. :sneaky::cool

Poker Zombie said:
Plymouth is terrible about issuing speeding tickets. Funny story... Some years back (June 30th, 1997 to be exact) I was about to get my first job with a Fire Dept. One of the requirements was a clean driving record. No tickets. About a week before my interview (which includes the background check) I got a pulled over by a Plymouth cop, for "cornering too fast" (I was in a van , loaded with film boxes, and none of the stacks - or the van - tipped, but I digress).

I told the officer my situation. Interview, can't get a ticket... I'm sure they hear all kinds of excuses, but I was being legit. He went back to his car, and when he returned, he handed me the ticket and said "It comes off your record in 3 years. Re-apply then. In the meantime, drive like your Grandma."

My dream, shattered. Two days later, the courthouse was struck by lightning, and burned to the ground. I never got a summons to appear, and I got the job.

I guess that was my "one time". That, or fate loves irony.
Click to expand...
 

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