Minty RHC chip wear - regular home game use (3 Viewers)

[viet rounder]

As far as flea bites go, I'd like to hear from people who have first hand experience with mint RHC's getting flea bites in home games. I'm genuinely curious. We know the mold is more susceptible to flea bites than other molds. But are people just repeating that warning, or are people actually getting fleabites on mint RHC chips?

This was my thought as well. For home games that takes place every week it would take a life time before the edges get rounded like the casino. Even then, it would only happen to the workhorse chip. I’m pretty sure the high society chip will remain mint forever in a home game environment

 

[pipdenny]

I've been shuffling a stack of HSI 1a chips and the white is noticeably dirty. I wash my hands before using my computer, which is where I shuffle chips, so this may be the fate of all pristine super-white clay chips, no matter how dirty/clean the players are. There are also some very minor flea bites (on the chips where the hat is like a micrometer from the edge).
At first shuffling was difficult and unpleasant, but now it's really nice from just a few sessions at the computer shuffling on the side.

Minty chips up top, shuffle stack on bottom.

Spoiler: BONUS MASSIVE FLEA BITE

this chip was damaged on arrival. I am not a monster.

I definitely plan to play with these, I mean that's why I ultimately bought them. Many of you are correct in that chips are meant to be played, and a set of widely available RHC's are hardly collector material.

Maybe I can document how RHC chips slowly wear over normal play, just for fun. I'll use this thread for anyone interested in the future. The wear tells a story, and even if I had a mint set of highly revered chips, I feel like the wear I would put on would be my wear, and it would feel good (if that makes any sense).
I was just wondering what to expect, and to gauge my expectations for frequency of new flea bites and whatnot, as this is my first experience with minty chips.

 

[davislane]

I've been shuffling a stack of HSI 1a chips and the white is noticeably dirty. I wash my hands before using my computer, which is where I shuffle chips, so this may be the fate of all pristine super-white clay chips, no matter how dirty/clean the players are. There are also some very minor flea bites (on the chips where the hat is like a micrometer from the edge).
At first shuffling was difficult and unpleasant, but now it's really nice from just a few sessions at the computer shuffling on the side.

Minty chips up top, shuffle stack on bottom.

View attachment 610842

Spoiler: BONUS MASSIVE FLEA BITE

View attachment 610843 this chip was damaged on arrival. I am not a monster.

I definitely plan to play with these, I mean that's why I ultimately bought them. Many of you are correct in that chips are meant to be played, and a set of widely available RHC's are hardly collector material.

Maybe I can document how RHC chips slowly wear over normal play, just for fun. I'll use this thread for anyone interested in the future. The wear tells a story, and even if I had a mint set of highly revered chips, I feel like the wear I would put on would be my wear, and it would feel good (if that makes any sense).
I was just wondering what to expect, and to gauge my expectations for frequency of new flea bites and whatnot, as this is my first experience with minty chips.

Its because of chips like that I always buy a few extras

 

[RainmanTrail]

I've never put minty RHC chips into play, so I can't tell you first-hand how many hours it takes for them to result in having a lot of flea bites, but I have played them at friend's houses multiple times, and each time I can see the tiny little chip flakes that break off all over the table. It's noticeable for sure. Every time they get put in play, they're going to get flea bites. Play them enough, and you get the typical look of used flea bitten RHCs. I assume the rest of the perimeter wears at the same rate as a THC though.

However, I can speak to the differences in resale values between new/used RHCs and new/used THCs. Several years ago, I built out a fairly large database of chip sales (a couple thousand transactions). They were all taken from the classifieds here, as well as a few dozen relevant eBay auctions where full racks of Paulsons with good photos were sold at auction. I tracked the casino the set was from, primary vs secondary, the base colors, the denomination, the quantity, the condition, and the mold. I wanted to build a statistical model that would allow me to answer questions like "what is the difference in resale value of brand new Paulsons vs near mint vs excellent, etc." I found that THCs and RHCs not only had a difference in overall average prices, but that their wear patterns also followed very different curves with respect to sales prices.

The actual database is on a hard drive somewhere that would take me a while to dig up, but this is what the plots looked like for RHC vs THC with respect to sales prices. The RHCs drop off in resale value VERY quickly whereas the THCs retain most of their resale value until they get into the "casino used" level of wear. I used a simple 5 point rating scale for this part of the analysis because I found that there was actually no statistically significant difference in prices between "New", "Mint", and even "Near Mint" chips. Certainly there are members who would disagree, but the overall market sees those as having essentially no difference at all in value. The 5 levels of chip condition that I used for this analysis was as follows:
5 - New, Mint, or Near Mint
4 - Excellent or Very Good used
3 - Good used or "buttery smooth"
2 - Well used, casino used, or significantly used
1 - Bicycle tires

The key takeaway from my research was that THCs retain the majority of their value even with quite a bit of use. Unless you're putting a set of THCs into play daily at your home game for years on end to where you're essentially running a home card room like @BELGRADE, then you probably won't lose much, if at all, in terms of resale value if you ever go to sell that set (overall market fluctuations aside, of course). However, if you were to do the same with a set of RHCs, you could easily lose half the value of a new set just by putting them in play in a weekly home game over the span of a year or two. The differences in resale value are pretty staggering when it comes to chip wear. Note that the typical wear from most home game settings would only take a set of new chips down from a '5' rating to a '4' in this chart below. Notice the difference between the RHC vs the THC from that 5 to 4 dropoff. It's pretty significant. New/Minty RHCs lost about 40% of their value in the resale market with just moderate usage consistent with a semi regular home game while THCs lost only about 10% of their value given the same amount of usage.

 

[CHP TD]

I definitely prefer buying "broke in chips" for the singles collection absolutely minty is better.

Funny i prefer playing with minty new Paulsons. As soon as they arent sharp i go looking for more new chips. that reminds me, I need to find some new snappers for a relabel.

If you cant shuffle new paulsons - you cant shuffle.

 

[BGinGA]

I've never put minty RHC chips into play, so I can't tell you first-hand how many hours it takes for them to result in having a lot of flea bites, but I have played them at friend's houses multiple times, and each time I can see the tiny little chip flakes that break off all over the table. It's noticeable for sure. Every time they get put in play, they're going to get flea bites. Play them enough, and you get the typical look of used flea bitten RHCs. I assume the rest of the perimeter wears at the same rate as a THC though.

However, I can speak to the differences in resale values between new/used RHCs and new/used THCs. Several years ago, I built out a fairly large database of chip sales (a couple thousand transactions). They were all taken from the classifieds here, as well as a few dozen relevant eBay auctions where full racks of Paulsons with good photos were sold at auction. I tracked the casino the set was from, primary vs secondary, the base colors, the denomination, the quantity, the condition, and the mold. I wanted to build a statistical model that would allow me to answer questions like "what is the difference in resale value of brand new Paulsons vs near mint vs excellent, etc." I found that THCs and RHCs not only had a difference in overall average prices, but that their wear patterns also followed very different curves with respect to sales prices.

The actual database is on a hard drive somewhere that would take me a while to dig up, but this is what the plots looked like for RHC vs THC with respect to sales prices. The RHCs drop off in resale value VERY quickly whereas the THCs retain most of their resale value until they get into the "casino used" level of wear. I used a simple 5 point rating scale for this part of the analysis because I found that there was actually no statistically significant difference in prices between "New", "Mint", and even "Near Mint" chips. Certainly there are members who would disagree, but the overall market sees those as having essentially no difference at all in value. The 5 levels of chip condition that I used for this analysis was as follows:
5 - New, Mint, or Near Mint
4 - Excellent or Very Good used
3 - Good used or "buttery smooth"
2 - Well used, casino used, or significantly used
1 - Bicycle tires

The key takeaway from my research was that THCs retain the majority of their value even with quite a bit of use. Unless you're putting a set of THCs into play daily at your home game for years on end to where you're essentially running a home card room like @BELGRADE, then you probably won't lose much, if at all, in terms of resale value if you ever go to sell that set (overall market fluctuations aside, of course). However, if you were to do the same with a set of RHCs, you could easily lose half the value of a new set just by putting them in play in a weekly home game over the span of a year or two. The differences in resale value are pretty staggering when it comes to chip wear. Note that the typical wear from most home game settings would only take a set of new chips down from a '5' rating to a '4' in this chart below. Notice the difference between the RHC vs the THC from that 5 to 4 dropoff. It's pretty significant. New/Minty RHCs lost about 40% of their value in the resale market with just moderate usage consistent with a semi regular home game while THCs lost only about 10% of their value given the same amount of usage.


View attachment 610883

Great post Travis, accurately covering several facets.

 

[Ben8257]

Very insightful indeed @RainmanTrail ... I only have one question sir. I have seen this RHC dust and even small chunks of clay on the table with minty RHCs but I find that a good round of mineral oil even on mint chips cuts down on the dust significantly. Do you think there is any value in that? Conditioning the chips, basically lubricating so that those thin sharp edges are so dry and brittle?

Also as RHC round off a bit. Yes they are going to get flea bites but as they break in a bit I also almost never notice any dust on the table even after hours in play. It is mostly just those brand new lathed sharp unconditioned (non oiled) chips that really take the worst of this.

Basically you are paying the price for driving that new car off the lot. If resale value is an issue for you then maybe put them on the self and look at them!

Oil your chips folks, many here say they prefer chalky original condition chips. That chalky surface is the clay drying out over time and not the same condition that you are playing them in casinos, if its dry it will be brittle and more susceptible to damage!

You are not doing any permanent damage or alerting the chips in any way! See there our Ash St limit set. We cleaned these chips over 4 months, when cleaned and oiled in the same manner each time look at the difference from chips oiled 4 months ago to the last week!

They will go back to their original condition in time. Someone recently stated that mineral oil does not evaporate? Then where is it going? If it was soaking in and you continually oil them eventually the chips would be super saturated and be physically running out of the chips!

As they have not been played a quick reapplication of oil and back to awesome!

Btw these THCs were used daily for years in their card room. You can see the hiegth difference at the end next to the NM 98 CDIs. Maybe 10 flea bites total in the 1,200 chips, completely perfect and even wear across the board. Without a doubt a far superior chip to RHC.

Fellow chipper Ben

 

[monkeydog]

it’d be interesting to see the wear patterns on House Molds too - those Atlantic City Hard Rock give me anxiety just looking at them, such a pretty chip, but the name is almost touching the rim. The Bellagio on the other hand and more cantered and I don’t think I’ve seen many flea bites on them.

 

[upNdown]

it’d be interesting to see the wear patterns on House Molds too - those Atlantic City Hard Rock give me anxiety just looking at them, such a pretty chip, but the name is almost touching the rim. The Bellagio on the other hand and more cantered and I don’t think I’ve seen many flea bites on them.

House molds are like those kids that wore all black in high school. I’m sure they were awesome people, I just never got to know them.

 

[Goldfish]

Flea bitten but still awesome.......

 

[RainmanTrail]

I don't know about oil helping to slow down the rate of flea bites on RHCs. Never tested that. I've wondered about the oiled chips drying out though. I'm curious if they're actually drying out or if the oil is just penetrating deeper into the chip though? Is there a maximum number of times you need to reoil until the chip is "full"? Might be. One thing I've noticed is that well used casino chips with years worth of natural oils never dry out. The Outpost hoard I got from the owner sat in his garage for over 15 or 20 years, but the chips were all full of oil still.

 

[FordPickup92]

I don't know about oil helping to slow down the rate of flea bites on RHCs. Never tested that. I've wondered about the oiled chips drying out though. I'm curious if they're actually drying out or if the oil is just penetrating deeper into the chip though? Is there a maximum number of times you need to reoil until the chip is "full"? Might be. One thing I've noticed is that well used casino chips with years worth of natural oils never dry out. The Outpost hoard I got from the owner sat in his garage for over 15 or 20 years, but the chips were all full of oil still.

Interesting.... after we washed and oiled these Ash St chips, they needed a rolling edge oiling only a few months later as they dried out again. Wonder if the washing eliminated some of the natural oils the chip had acquired over the years

 

[FordPickup92]

5 - New, Mint, or Near Mint
4 - Excellent or Very Good used
3 - Good used or "buttery smooth"
2 - Well used, casino used, or significantly used
1 - Bicycle tires

Image for reference

 

[Mangatang]

Interesting.... after we washed and oiled these Ash St chips, they needed a rolling edge oiling only a few months later as they dried out again. Wonder if the washing eliminated some of the natural oils the chip had acquired over the years

Ultrasonic will definitely dry chips. Light oiling does miracles, but re-oiling usually needed.

 

[FordPickup92]

Ultrasonic will definitely dry chips. Light oiling does miracles, but re-oiling usually needed.

We don't use an ultrasonic

 

[Mangatang]

We don't use an ultrasonic

Ah, the old elbow grease method. Very OG.

 

[FordPickup92]

Ah, the old elbow grease method. Very OG.

Cleaned all 1200 Ash streets by hand, and many others. Don't like what the ultrasonic does to the surface of the chips. Some say the same for magic erasers

 

[Mangatang]

Cleaned all 1200 Ash streets by hand, and many others. Don't like what the ultrasonic does to the surface of the chips. Some say the same for magic erasers

I’ve cleaned hundreds of chips by hand. Very satisfying, but never ends up as clean as ultrasonic. If they are truly casino-used, ultrasonic is the only way to get all the hooker juice off.

 

[FordPickup92]

I’ve cleaned hundreds of chips by hand. Very satisfying, but never ends up as clean as ultrasonic. If they are truly casino-used, ultrasonic is the only way to get all the hooker juice off.

Ours are all spotless. We clean them thoroughly

 

[Mangatang]

Ours are all spotless. We clean them thoroughly

How dirty were they to begin with?

 

[FordPickup92]

How dirty were they to begin with?

Nasty chunks of grossness

 

[Altheman003]

Nasty chunks of grossness

View attachment 612555View attachment 612556

Impressive results! Just soap and water?

 

[FordPickup92]

Impressive results! Just soap and water?

Oxiclean and an oxi based laundry detergent, magic eraser, nail brush, and dawn dishsoap

 

[Mangatang]

Nasty chunks of grossness

Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but I spent many hours hand-scrubbing chips. I also used toothpicks to dig the grit out of the crevices. Then, got an ultrasonic, and the same chips got completely clean, in half the time I spent to get them kind of clean.

 

[FordPickup92]

Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but I spent many hours hand-scrubbing chips. I also used toothpicks to dig the grit out of the crevices. Then, got an ultrasonic, and the same chips got completely clean, in half the time I spent to get them kind of clean.

It's alot of steps and time, I've gotten quicker. Biggest thing is soap to water ratio (not too strong not too weak) warm water, soaking long enough to get the gunk soft but not so long it can seep into the inlays, using a nail brush to get the worst out. Some require careful removal of jammed bits in the canes and outer ring with a filet knife, and a scrub with magic eraser leaves a nice surface.
Have never felt overly rushed to clean chips for any reason, so taking our time and cleaning them well has worked just fine with this method (and not caused any damage to the chips)

 

[allforcharity]

I’ve cleaned hundreds of chips by hand. Very satisfying, but never ends up as clean as ultrasonic. If they are truly casino-used, ultrasonic is the only way to get all the hooker juice off.

Actually, I don't think this is true. Ultrasonic are not foolproof. There are some types of stains that will always require more vigorous physical methods to take off, like colour transfer or any surface reacted material.

 

[Mangatang]

Actually, I don't think this is true. Ultrasonic are not foolproof. There are some types of stains that will always require more vigorous physical methods to take off, like colour transfer or any surface reacted material.

Agreed. But pure casino grime, ultrasonic is the way to go.

 

[Mangatang]

Agreed. But pure casino grime, ultrasonic is the way to go.

Btw, I’m talking about 1000’s of chips, not just a few racks.

 

[Ben8257]

Dude we know how to clean chips

My fingers are like this daily! I have hand washed almost 30,000 chips in the last year and a half!

Unfortunately I don't have before but these were made in 1961. They were terrible!

Making statements like US i"s the only way to go" and questioning how dirty our chips were? Do realize how you come off @Mangatang

Just tonight. As in an hour ago! Before

After

I'm not here to ruffle feathers sir but seriously but I have bought chips that have been US cleaned... I am not a fan of the finished surface, maybe they were set too high but it leaves a rough face on the clay. Can also eat the gold foil in HS chips. Hand cleaning the right way gets chips spotless even whites which many say the US does not do a good job on.

Seriously "the only way to go???" Whatever man! Here's my pics! We do this everyday!

Thousands of racks huh?? Is 30k thousands or still not up to your standards? I hope you just enjoy trolling man and realize what you sound like!

 

[Mangatang]

I didn’t mean to offend. I can only tell my experience. You must have found a better way of hand-cleaning than I have. That’s great. All I know is I’ve tore up my hands and fingers by scrubbing, and I didn’t get as good results as once I tried ultrasonic.

It’s all good in the hood.