Minty RHC chip wear - regular home game use (1 Viewer)

I’ve cleaned hundreds of chips by hand. Very satisfying, but never ends up as clean as ultrasonic. If they are truly casino-used, ultrasonic is the only way to get all the hooker juice off.
Having seen some of the chips @FordPickup92 cleaned to perfection, I would challenge this opinion.

Edit: during my slow typing, some awesome pictures have been posted by @Ben8257 . Case closed.
 
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@Ben8257 @FordPickup92
 
I will say OxyClean gives the chip a whole new level of clean. You can feel it immediately, like you finally removed EVERYTHING from the chip and now you're truly at zero.
Makes old chips chalky.
 
Oxy can also permanently damage chips, worse than ultrasonic. It can bleach colors (some much worse than others) which can't be fixed or restored by oiling. Excessive heat, incorrect concentations, and excessive soak times can all be culprits -- and all vary by chip type/mfg and color. There is no single one-best-way-fits-all.

There are literally dozens of different cleaning methods, using different products and processes -- and every single one of them has drawbacks.

When the casino-used primary PCAs were first introduced, they introduced new levels of nastiness (and some of the Empress Casino chips that followed shortly afterwards weren't far behind). Cleaning methods that had worked well before were found to be seriously lacking and ineffective, and/or far too time-consuming.

Taking chip geekiness to new levels, I was part of a cleaning products study group and controlled experiment, which compared the results of a wide variety of cleaning solutions which had been discussed and used on clay chips at the time: Dawn Dish Soap, Oxyclean, Resolve Carpet Cleaner, Resolve Upholstery Cleaner, Simple Green, several different automotive tire/rim cleaners, even some alcohol-based and ammonia-based cleaners. We tested kitchen products (dish, dishwasher, oven, and general cleaners), laundry products, automotive cleaners for various surfaces/materials, and industrial degreasers.

Nothing cleaned better or quicker without damage than oxy, Resolve, or tire cleaner (three-way tie), although the latter two took a bit longer (by <10% or so) but also never inflicted any damage whatsoever (unlike oxy). But they were more expensive and nastier to deal with, and some left a 'cleaning solution' smell afterwards that eventually faded away.

As a result of all the testing and results,
I used Resolve for a long time, eventually replacing it with oxy solution (but testing thoroughly on each chip type/color before large-scale use, to avoid color-bleaching and hot-stamp damage).

I finally got smart and settled on just buying clean mint chips. :)

These days, I use either oxy or an ultrasonic for those rare occasions when I need to clean chips, pending the number involved.

There is no universal 'right' way to clean chips, but there sure are a lot of wrong ways.
 
I've cleaned tens of thousands of chips over the years. I've had really good results both by hand and with the ultrasonic. Success with either approach in my experience depends on soak times before hand and using the right balance of soap, OxyClean, or fake TSP, and if using the ultrasonic, changing out your water when it gets gross (usually after about 5 racks or so). Also, using distilled water in it makes a big difference. Some chips come out perfect with the ultrasonic, but not all of them will. Some chips are just going to require some elbow grease if you want them to turn out perfect. For my Outpost "keeper set" (that @Windwalker now owns), I had to use a dental pick to scrape out the gunk from the hats & canes and the outer circle before putting them into the ultrasonic. For my Nevada Lodge $1s, the ultrasonic just wouldn't get them clean enough. I had to scrub those by hand and used a magic eraser on them. With hot stamps, you have to be really careful. Softer brushes with milder soaps usually work on those without damaging the foil stamp. Or, you can use the ultrasonic if you dilute the fake TSP further. But always do a test chip or two if you plan to use the ultrasonic for that. Both methods work well in my experience. It's all about whether or not you enjoy the process. If I have a lot of chips to clean, I'm using the ultrasonic because it's just a lot faster. But if I have some chips that are super nasty, I'm probably doing a combination of both. But I've definitely had good results without using an ultrasonic. I've seen colors fade using both the fake TSP and OxyClean, so I'm not sure if one of those is better or worse than the other in that regard. Maybe some specific colors react better to one or the other? Not sure. But it doesn't really bother me as long as all my chips are done at the same time using the same method, then they'll fade evenly, and the fading is generally pretty mild in my experience. If I were cleaning a set of my custom CPCs though, I would definitely do those by hand.
 
I've cleaned tens of thousands of chips over the years. I've had really good results both by hand and with the ultrasonic. Success with either approach in my experience depends on soak times before hand and using the right balance of soap, OxyClean, or fake TSP, and if using the ultrasonic, changing out your water when it gets gross (usually after about 5 racks or so). Also, using distilled water in it makes a big difference. Some chips come out perfect with the ultrasonic, but not all of them will. Some chips are just going to require some elbow grease if you want them to turn out perfect. For my Outpost "keeper set" (that @Windwalker now owns), I had to use a dental pick to scrape out the gunk from the hats & canes and the outer circle before putting them into the ultrasonic. For my Nevada Lodge $1s, the ultrasonic just wouldn't get them clean enough. I had to scrub those by hand and used a magic eraser on them. With hot stamps, you have to be really careful. Softer brushes with milder soaps usually work on those without damaging the foil stamp. Or, you can use the ultrasonic if you dilute the fake TSP further. But always do a test chip or two if you plan to use the ultrasonic for that. Both methods work well in my experience. It's all about whether or not you enjoy the process. If I have a lot of chips to clean, I'm using the ultrasonic because it's just a lot faster. But if I have some chips that are super nasty, I'm probably doing a combination of both. But I've definitely had good results without using an ultrasonic. I've seen colors fade using both the fake TSP and OxyClean, so I'm not sure if one of those is better or worse than the other in that regard. Maybe some specific colors react better to one or the other? Not sure. But it doesn't really bother me as long as all my chips are done at the same time using the same method, then they'll fade evenly, and the fading is generally pretty mild in my experience. If I were cleaning a set of my custom CPCs though, I would definitely do those by hand.
It is absolutely a live and learn process and we have found that no 2 clay compounds are the same. For CPCs I would not use anything other than dish soap and water. We used to use TSP and found that it changed the composition of the CPCs, it was really wired some how they lost their density! The entire chip became softer and I though maybe if you put it in the oven at 150 under a slight preasure for 10 minutes maybe it would help and the chips melted!! It was only a sample set but definitely valuable knowledge moving forward.

On Oxyclean I find that a level tea spoon (roughly maybe a bit less) to 6 cups of warm water and 2 table spoons roughly of Dawn dish soap has been a fantastic recipe for almost everything. In another thread I was basically told I was wrong to put OXY on HS chips, again it is all about learning how to clean each chip (the nasty Desert Oasis $20s above were cleaned with OXY)!! If you leave HS chips in an oxy solution yes it will eat the gold foil over time, but if you only bathe a barrel at a time and 10 minute soak time, hold your thumb over the stamp while cleaning with a nail brush followed by a Magic Eraser I have had absolutely zero lost soldiers! When the chips have excessive hooker juice you need more than just dish soap IMO.

I think the best advice is look a peoples before and after in the hooker juice thread, find what chips you look to be acceptable playing condition. Some people do not like oiled chips and want to play them chalky, some people don't care if they get the hats cleaned out all the way... some people never clean chips and play with them nasty as hell! But if you are unsure of which way to go with cleaning ask first! Ask a person that you know spends hours cleaning chips in all different varieties and has learned the do's and do not's, and then do a sample batch. Not an entire rack clean and oil a few chips and make sure you are happy with the results before attempting the entire rack! I have spent hours helping other chippers figure out the right technique that works for them... but I have also seen chips destroyed by others that did not understand the process.

For the record I never said Ultra Sonics is the wrong way to clean chips, I simply stated that its not our way of cleaning. I am not a fan of the finished product... again I have never owned one and not sure that the chips we bought were cleaned correctly in an US or not. The only reason I got involved and upset was because there were multiple posts saying US is the only way! that is absolutely false! But if the veterans are telling you it works then I say do what you are comfortable doing, it absolutely will cut down on cleaning time! Dave and Travis are Experts In this hobby IMO if they say something works I am confident that it does!

Ben
 
Here's the result of me shuffling a barrel of Jacks sec $25s for a couple of hours a week next to my computer.

They feeeeel so buttery smooth and much nicer to shuffle than when all minty.

I do not have experience with having RHC in play over time in a home game setting, so can't tell you about flea bites. Several members claim they are more prone to it than THC.
IMG_20190512_140407.jpg


Edit: shuffletime probably less than 50h.
 
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Here's the result of me shuffling a barrel of Jacks sec $25s for a couple of hours a week next to my computer.

They feeeeel so buttery smooth and much nicer to shuffle than when all minty.

I do not have experience with having RHC in play over time in a home game setting, so can't tell you about flea bites. Several members claim they are more prone to it than THC.
View attachment 612695
Those look broke in and ready for play!! I know you said a couple hours a week, but over what period of time? 2 years? So about 100 hours annually x 2 years? would you say possibly 200 hours of shuffling on those at this point? I mean constant shuffling is much different than a a set in play as most players stack them and do not shuffle much... I guess it all depends on the game and group, but they have definitely lost their minty edge and 200 hours on chips isn't a whole hell of a lot. Interesting
 
Those look broke in and ready for play!! I know you said a couple hours a week, but over what period of time? 2 years? So about 100 hours annually x 2 years? would you say possibly 200 hours of shuffling on those at this point? I mean constant shuffling is much different than a a set in play as most players stack them and do not shuffle much... I guess it all depends on the game and group, but they have definitely lost their minty edge and 200 hours on chips isn't a whole hell of a lot. Interesting
Sorry, definitely should have been more specific about the timing. My first comment was not very accurate.

Honestly not sure on amount of hours. Should have accounted for it more thoroughly. However this photo was taken 12. May 2019. over a year and a half ago, and posted in another thread discussing the same topic a long time ago. The photo was taken about 6 weeks after I received the chips all minty from thechiproom. It's a long time ago, so take this with a grain of salt, but if I were to guess I would say I shuffled them a couple of hours a day for a few weeks. Probably around 50 hours max, likely less.
 
Sorry, definitely should have been more specific about the timing. My first comment was not very accurate.

Honestly not sure on amount of hours. Should have accounted for it more thoroughly. However this photo was taken 12. May 2019. over a year and a half ago, and posted in another thread discussing the same topic a long time ago. The photo was taken about 6 weeks after I received the chips all minty from thechiproom. It's a long time ago, so take this with a grain of salt, but if I were to guess I would say I shuffled them a couple of hours a day for a few weeks. Probably around 50 hours max, likely less.
Well that is a huge difference! 50 hours is not much time at all! @Marius L do you recall if the chips had been oiled or not? @RainmanTrail had a discussion earlier in this thread on rather or not that has any effect in the wear. Also curious if you noticed how much chip dust was around the area. Was it ever noticeable, seems like with that much wear the clay had to go somewhere.
 
Well that is a huge difference! 50 hours is not much time at all! @Marius L do you recall if the chips had been oiled or not? @RainmanTrail had a discussion earlier in this thread on rather or not that has any effect in the wear. Also curious if you noticed how much chip dust was around the area. Was it ever noticeable, seems like with that much wear the clay had to go somewhere.
I can't quite recall if I did oil them.. Have a feeling I didn't clean or oil them. My speed cloth shuffle pad was in a serious need for some cleaning afterwards.

Even with decent hand hygiene, I'm pretty sure it was a combo of natural oils and the chip dust that turned into a greenish home made hooker juice, lol. The chips pictured were obviously cleaned before this photo was taken
 
I will say OxyClean gives the chip a whole new level of clean. You can feel it immediately, like you finally removed EVERYTHING from the chip and now you're truly at zero.
Makes old chips chalky.
I know what you mean about chalky, but to me, that’s always felt more like a cleaning residue than new clay chalk. I actually try to avoid that by doing extra rinses and oiling when necessary.
 
I can't quite recall if I did oil them.. Have a feeling I didn't clean or oil them. My speed cloth shuffle pad was in a serious need for some cleaning afterwards.

Even with decent hand hygiene, I'm pretty sure it was a combo of natural oils and the chip dust that turned into a greenish home made hooker juice, lol. The chips pictured were obviously cleaned before this photo was taken
Again thanks you for the insight!! Very helpful for those considering paying "The NEW Car Price" to be the first to own minty chips!

I bet if you did the same experiment with minty BCC chips after 50 hours they would still be the same other than covered in blood from cutting your self repeatedly on razor sharp chips! LOL your post speaks volumes for the clay composition of Paulson chips, that softer clay feel that we all love comes with a price!
 
Well that is a huge difference! 50 hours is not much time at all!
For nonstop shuffling, maybe it is.
When you’re playing, even if you’re a heavy shuffler, you’re not shuffling nonstop for the whole session. I’d argue that even a heavy shuffler is only shuffling for 25% of the time, at the very most. AND, say you’ve got an average of 60 chips in front of you - you’re only actually shuffling like 12 of them, right?
So if 20% of your chips only get shuffled 25% of the time, I’d argue that the above pictured 60-hr shuffle chips actually represent 1200 hours of play. All ballpark and spitball of course, but you get the point.

Edit - and to take that one or two speculative step further - if you host a 5 hour game, once a week, that represents over 4 years of home use, assuming everybody at the table are heavy shufflers and you get most of your chips in play every week. If only half your players are shufflers, and only moderate shufflers at that, maybe you’re looking at something more like getting that amount of wear after 16 years?
 
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For nonstop shuffling, maybe it is.
When you’re playing, even if you’re a heavy shuffler, you’re not shuffling nonstop for the whole session. I’d argue that even a heavy shuffler is only shuffling for 25% of the time, at the very most. AND, say you’ve got an average of 60 chips in front of you - you’re only actually shuffling like 12 of them, right?
So if 20% of your chips only get shuffled 25% of the time, I’d argue that the above pictured 60-hr shuffle chips actually represent 1200 hours of play. All ballpark and spitball of course, but you get the point.
Absolutley agree, it is not 50 hours of play and they will look like this, 1,200 may be a bit much but yes I get your point. Also though a chipper Shuffling chips is controlled. Drinking poker players at the table are not! No matter how many times you warn them, they are going to slam chips in large pots and carelessly allow chips to roll off the table hit the floor. For me this post is just further proof of the durability overall of the RHC chips.

Obviously this is a pretty extreme example because if that was normal casinos would have never agreed to these. They would have demanded another clay composition years ago. Yes they are always buying more chips and rotating out well worn chips but if this was excessive they would address it.

Again the choice to own and Felt mint chips is each persons own decision. If you want the NEW CAR go for it!! Somebody has to break them in and take the hit on their value, some people here can afford that cost to offer a premium set up for their players. Overall I think value is a big factor when investing in a Paulson Chip set, therefore I think it was worth sharing with those budget minded chippers!

Ben
 
I bet if you did the same experiment with minty BCC chips after 50 hours they would still be the same other than covered in blood from cutting your self repeatedly on razor sharp chips! LOL your post speaks volumes for the clay composition of Paulson chips, that softer clay feel that we all love comes with a price!
I'll take that bet. Although definitely a harder compound than Paulsons (leaded or not), BCC chips do wear down and break in nicely with use.

My set has been used about a dozen times (so roughly 60 hours of table time), and the edge sharpness difference in the T100 and T1000 workhorse chips and the other less-handled denominations (and unused mint chips) is clear.
 
I'll take that bet. Although definitely a harder compound than Paulsons (leaded or not), BCC chips do wear down and break in nicely with use.

My set has been used about a dozen times (so roughly 60 hours of table time), and the edge sharpness difference in the T100 and T1000 workhorse chips and the other less-handled denominations (and unused mint chips) is clear.
Very Interesting Dave and you bring up another awesome point about work horse denoms. Can you see the difference in the racks and is it obvious like it is with paulsons or just slightly worn? I know you said noticeable but obviously there are different levels of noticeable. I would love to see a side by side of those someday sir.

Does anyone have any CPC custom sets that are used in monthly or weekly leagues that have a bunch of hours logged on the set that could share a pic of a rack of say T25s vs a rack of T1ks so we could see the difference? I know @krafticus Speak EC set has logged a ton of hours and they are all still amazing! Not trying to change the subject from BCC to CPC but I believe their are more CPC sets in circulation than BCCs. Never really thought about the per denom chip wear due to being work horses in a given set.
 
For nonstop shuffling, maybe it is.
When you’re playing, even if you’re a heavy shuffler, you’re not shuffling nonstop for the whole session. I’d argue that even a heavy shuffler is only shuffling for 25% of the time, at the very most. AND, say you’ve got an average of 60 chips in front of you - you’re only actually shuffling like 12 of them, right?
So if 20% of your chips only get shuffled 25% of the time, I’d argue that the above pictured 60-hr shuffle chips actually represent 1200 hours of play. All ballpark and spitball of course, but you get the point.

Edit - and to take that one or two speculative step further - if you host a 5 hour game, once a week, that represents over 4 years of home use, assuming everybody at the table are heavy shufflers and you get most of your chips in play every week. If only half your players are shufflers, and only moderate shufflers at that, maybe you’re looking at something more like getting that amount of wear after 16 years?

Very valid points. The barrel I posted above is pretty much shuffled non stop for that time. And most of the time 16-20 at the time. I'm definitely on the more extreme of shuffelers, lol. Would be curious to see wear in a regular game. Would also be much more prone to flea bites than simply controlled shuffling like my barrel.
 
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I'll take that bet. Although definitely a harder compound than Paulsons (leaded or not), BCC chips do wear down and break in nicely with use.

My set has been used about a dozen times (so roughly 60 hours of table time), and the edge sharpness difference in the T100 and T1000 workhorse chips and the other less-handled denominations (and unused mint chips) is clear.

Agreed, i had a few mint racks of BCC CDI chips and an extra barrel for shuffling. The barrel broke in very nicely with a clear difference from the mint barrels. They were butter though!
 
Very Interesting Dave and you bring up another awesome point about work horse denoms. Can you see the difference in the racks and is it obvious like it is with paulsons or just slightly worn? I know you said noticeable but obviously there are different levels of noticeable. I would love to see a side by side of those someday sir.

Does anyone have any CPC custom sets that are used in monthly or weekly leagues that have a bunch of hours logged on the set that could share a pic of a rack of say T25s vs a rack of T1ks so we could see the difference? I know @krafticus Speak EC set has logged a ton of hours and they are all still amazing! Not trying to change the subject from BCC to CPC but I believe their are more CPC sets in circulation than BCCs. Never really thought about the per denom chip wear due to being work horses in a given set.
I don't think there are any height differences on my BCCs due to wear, just a smooth broken-in edge condition more noticeable on workhorse denoms.

Tom's ASM/CPC Hitching Post sets show very ltttle wear, with the exception of some hot-stamp wear and some slight edge scuffing/chipping on some chips.

@courage's ASM sets likely have the highest mileage of any PCFers. I'd be shocked if they didn't show some decent wear vs his mint chips.
 

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