If I create a 1,000 chip set that is 900x $0.25s and either 100x$5.00s or 80x$5.00s and 20x$100.00s to play $1/$2 as a 4chip/8chip game am I doing it right?
Cash Game Limit Set Breakdowns and General Questions (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hairy_Crocodile
- Start date
turboj623
Flush
It depends on how many rebuys you want per player. At a 10 handed table , a rack of $5s at those stakes will give them 2 rebuys each. If you do 80 x $5 and 20 x $100 that will give you 96 rebuys total. This is assuming they are buying back in one rack at a time at $25 a pop.
grebe
Full House
Ugh. Just look at those chip towers that @Nanook posted a few posts back, and imagine your regular home game player trying to deal around it. Just do 2/4 chip game for home games, it simplifies everything sooo much!
I have two limit sets of 900 non-denoms plus value chips. You are welcome to borrow one for your game any time. Try it out for yourself, then you can make your own informed decision.
I will never agree that 4/8 chip game is optimal for a home game setting. People drinking and passing around the deal....it's just going to be a mess. Dedicated dealer, well maybe...
Give me a shout when you are thinking about hosting, maybe we can make a handoff....or just give me an invite to the game!
Thanks for the advice and thanks for the offer.
Having never experienced it I can't say for sure, but yeah, people constantly pushing 4 or 8 chips into the middle seems like it could get out of hand in a casual setting really quickly.
Nanook
Full House
Maybe so, but only from the standpoint of needing a lot of chips for everyone to have 3 or 4 racks in front of them...
Either one should work just fine most of the time, but I would go with your 2nd option just in case...
Sorry, but more chips = more fun... & every 2 chip game I have ever played in dies as it is just not all that much fun.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I am not a fan of a 2 chip limit game at all.
Not at all. Everyone gets used to it really quickly honestly I can easily have 10 racks in front of me without it being an issue at all. I am not advocating for everyone having 5 racks in front in a home game, but there is no reason you can't run a nice 3 or 4 chip limit game with 900 or 1200 of your base denomination
I just don’t understand why, if a later street gets capped, you’d want people pushing 32 chips into the middle. The average person I play cards with sucks at cutting out chips (which means half of them are worse than that, thanks Carlin) - ain’t nobody got time for that!
OP
OP
Hairy_Crocodile
3 of a Kind
I really want to learn how to play limit games. I'm definitely a troglodyte that needs to do something to understand it fully. Now that I have the images for my custom set made, I can make a limit set whenever I want.
It took me actually playing tournaments a few times to understand starting stacks, breakdowns, what breakdowns work better, etc when I wanted to learn about them. Looks like I need to get on YouTube and do the same thing to learn limit.
What stakes usually are best for home games?
My players usually play 25c/50c for no limit hold em.
Does that jeannie need 900x quarters and 100x bank chips?
And after reading the posts above, 2/4 chip games seem best I assume. Usually one player at our games (me most of the time) deals all night, so it's not too cumbersome.
It took me actually playing tournaments a few times to understand starting stacks, breakdowns, what breakdowns work better, etc when I wanted to learn about them. Looks like I need to get on YouTube and do the same thing to learn limit.
What stakes usually are best for home games?
My players usually play 25c/50c for no limit hold em.
Does that jeannie need 900x quarters and 100x bank chips?
And after reading the posts above, 2/4 chip games seem best I assume. Usually one player at our games (me most of the time) deals all night, so it's not too cumbersome.
I recently played a $1/2 FL game with $1 chips. With PCFers no less.
I assure you, we had plenty of fun.
Nanook
Full House
Anyone that sucks at cutting out 3 or 4 chips at a time has not played limit more than once or twice. Once you have, it is super easy and the betting goes WAY faster than it does in nl because it is always the same. You don't ever have someone making a raise to $63 or $118 or whatever stupid # people decide on.
Nanook
Full House
Playing $1/2 limit with $1 chips doesn't even allow for a small blind. What you are describing is actually a 1 chip game (where the small bets are 1 chip) Not that big a deal to have 2 big blinds and that would work just fine, but it is certainly far from ideal. I am not saying you can't have fun playing a 2 chip game or even a 1 chip game. Sure, it can be done and I have no doubts that some here will do it successfully. What I am saying is that 2 chip games and even more so 1 chip games are not ideal.
You can start some of your players out with only T100 & up chips in a T25 tournament and still make it work too. Just because you can do something and make it work does not make it the best solution.
Agree to disagree.
I think it’s funny that we spend so much time on PCF talking about efficiency. Cash game chips must increase in increments of 4x-5x. 3 page debates on the right number of 500s to put in T25 8/8/ starting stacks. Shuffle ahead or shuffle behind wars.
But when it comes to fixed limit games, efficiency is the enemy. More chips equals more fun.
Agree to disagree.
grebe
Full House
$2/4 would be fine for your group. Play with $1 chips.
Nanook
Full House
I think that a lot of talk about efficiency comes down to people wanting nicer/more expensive chips than the amount of money they are able/willing to spend.
People don't buy a 300pc set because it is better than a 500 pc set, right?
Nanook
Full House
If you play 2/4 limit with $1 chips most people are not going to win or lose more than $100 in a night & +/- $200 is going to be a an outlier.
so quarters or half dollars?
Nanook
Full House
Quarters would make a super friendly game. I guess you could do either one, but I would choose quarters
DrDysfunctional
Pair
When I first looked into limit, these two posts helped me out immensely.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/limit-chip-breakdown-advice.11663/#post-179515
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/limit-chip-breakdown-advice.11663/#post-179541
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/limit-chip-breakdown-advice.11663/#post-179515
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/limit-chip-breakdown-advice.11663/#post-179541
grebe
Full House
Exactly. Just like a pretty standard .25/.50 game. EDIT: .25/.50 NL game
Step 1 is buy the chips, right?
grebe
Full House
Holler when you want to put a game together! I will travel for limit after Covid numbers drop back down.
Are you saying +/- 25 bbs a night is standard in limit games?
This one time I ordered a wild turkey and coke in a bar and the bartender said it was sacrilege. I expect to hear the same regarding my breakdown
For 6 players and .50/1 I have:
320 x $1
240 x .25
$63 of chips per player should be good for rebuys?
If I remember average pot sizes will be between 5-10 dollars and rarely up to about 20?
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I've done a bunch of reading and normally it seems like people buy in at 20-25x the big bet. The difference seems mostly to round up to a full rack of chips.
The most you could ever have a player put into a pot would be 12x the big bet. This doesn't seem that common to have that much going in and is half their stack. Enough they aren't throwing it away, not enough they get up and leave. It also means that they have enough for the ups and downs of the game without constantly having to reach into their wallet to rebuy.
Someone, please correct me if my research has been wrong on this.
The most you could ever have a player put into a pot would be 12x the big bet. This doesn't seem that common to have that much going in and is half their stack. Enough they aren't throwing it away, not enough they get up and leave. It also means that they have enough for the ups and downs of the game without constantly having to reach into their wallet to rebuy.
Someone, please correct me if my research has been wrong on this.
jpietrella
4 of a Kind
I'm definitely confused. Where is this on the periodic table?
Nanook
Full House
Yes and No
Let me esplain....lol
So many people in this thread misunderstand limit & why things happen the way they do in limit. As I have stated previously YOU do YOU and yes you can do what ever you want. If you want to play a 1/2 limit game and only have $1 chips and have 2 big blinds and both are $1 with 6 players and have only 500 chips, go for it. Use 460 x $1's and 40 x $25 chips am NOT saying this won't work. If you are on a budget then sure, by all means go for it. Is it ideal, NO not at all.
Casino's and Card Rooms generally never spread a 1 chip game and 2 chip games don't work the best so they are not spread all that often either. There is are reasons for this. 3 and 4 chip games work well and are mostly the default for card rooms that know how to run a limit game. 5 or more chips get unwieldy for the dealer and slow things down so they are also generally avoided. No Rules about this, but it is what is mostly done because it works best. If you do not have a dedicated dealer I can see the argument for less chips rather than more but at the same time people like to play big pot poker and even though the money or $ should be the same in a 2 chip 2/4 limit game as they are in a 4 chip 2/4 game I guarantee 100% that your pots will be way bigger in the 4 chip game because people just play different. Everyone gets fooled into playing more hands and going further with them which makes for a bigger variance, wilder and consequently more fun and friendly game. This is sort of the whole point of limit. If you want the best player to win almost 100% of the time make your game bigger than most can afford and make it nl. If you want a friendly game where everyone has fun and no one really loses more than they can afford then make the game small with a 3 or 4 chip structure and limit. Everyone will keep coming back to your game having fun and no one will really get mad or go broke.
With all that said...
With a 1 or 2 chip structure I would say that 25BB or 25 Big Bets is going to be enough that most players are not going to have to be exchanging chips frequently. 2/4 limit with $1 small blind and $2 big blind using $1 chips is a 2 chip structure (the small bets are 2 chips) There will be some re-buys, but not a lot. Let me give an example of a typical hand in a 2 chip structure in your typical 7 handed home game. utg fold, utg+1 limps, HJ folds, CO Fold, Button Calls SB & BB both call. 4 players see the flop. Flop is 1 small bet with 2 callers. Turn 1 big bet with 1 caller and river goes check check. The maximum anyone puts in this pot is 2 Big Bets or 2BB. With a very passive and small game where the typical hand plays out like I described 25BB is plenty for most and certainly enough of your workhorse chip for each player. If you typically have 6 players then 6 racks of your workhorse chip ($1 in the game described above) will work just fine. You probably should have 3-5x that in some bigger denom so something like a rack of $20 which would give you $2000 or a rack of $25 chips which would give you $2500 would work just fine.
In a 3 or 4 chip structure game the betting will be significantly different. You might have 3 bets 5 ways preflop. a bet and a raise on the flop 4 ways. a bet and a raise on the turn 3 ways and a bet and a call on the river. So in this type of game you have 4.5 Big bets. As you can see the pots are more than 2x in terms of big bets and for this reason more chips are necessary so everyone isn't exchanging chips all the time. In a 3 chip game you are going to need 1.5x the number of chips and in a 4 chip game you are going to need 2x the number of workhorse chips for your game to run smoothly.
Bottom line is for your game to run smoothly for 1 or 2 chip structure 1 rack/player of your workhorse chips. For a 3 chip structure 1.5 racks/player and for a 4 chip game 2 racks/player. You also have at least 3x in dollars of a bigger denomination for color ups.
Remember what I said above that there are no rules about what you can or can not do and lots of different ways work but some ways work better than others so my suggestion is what I think will work best & not always the best for you... For example maybe you just want to try it out 1st and you already have chips and don't want to buy more just yet etc.
Your breakdown is not ideal for limit. Ideally you want almost all of your chips in 1 denomination. For a .50/$1 that denomination should be 25¢ chips. In limit it works best this way as it speeds up the play and everyone gets used to cutting out the same # of chips over and over. Cut out 1 small bet for pre flop and flop bets and cut out 1 small bet 2x for the turn and river. Makes it easy for both the dealer and the players and makes the speed of play like 2x what it is in nl.
For a .50/$1 limit game & 6 players & limiting it to 600 chips I would personally want a minimum of the following:
570 x 25¢
20 x $5
10 x $25
about right, yes
more than 5 Big Bets going into any pot is fairly unusual. It happens occasionally, but not very often and if you are playing a 1 or 2 chip game I would say more than 5 Big Bets for 1 player is almost never going to happen unless you have something like AA vs AA and unlimited bets and both players just keep betting until it is all in. Yes this can happen, but it is very rare.
Seems like you more or less have it
lol
jpietrella
4 of a Kind
Nanook
Full House
Ok, for anyone that doesn't like to read or think too much....
Bottom line is for your game to run smoothly for 1 or 2 chip structure 1 rack/player of your workhorse chips. For a 3 chip structure 1.5 racks/player and for a 4 chip game 2 racks/player. You also have at least 3x in dollars of a bigger denomination for color ups.
Bottom line is for your game to run smoothly for 1 or 2 chip structure 1 rack/player of your workhorse chips. For a 3 chip structure 1.5 racks/player and for a 4 chip game 2 racks/player. You also have at least 3x in dollars of a bigger denomination for color ups.
Mangatang
Straight
Did someone say Limit?
joepro
Flush
Did someone say Ultrasonic?
Fun and no big losses is exactly what I'm hoping for! I know my chip structure isn't ideal but I heart them... especially the black and retro lavender hundo (representing 100 pennies in my games).
The play you described reminded me a lot of th games I had - lots of limping/calling and a few big ~20 BB pots a night.
Yesterday I wanted to order more quarters but found out the dayglow colors have changed since ASM. I may replace them in the future but I still need to keep the hundos in play!! Until then I think I'll have enough to cover rebuys with my limpy crew and if not cash can always play.
Now just I need to find another 6 regulars so I don't have to cancel games...
Thx for the detailed insights
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