Cash Game Limit Set Breakdowns and General Questions

bigdonkey

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It is also impossible to use only $3 chips in a standard 3/6 limit game because the small blind is either $1 or (preferably) $2. In which case, you're making change and slowing the game down. The speed of the game is why I love limit so much, it plays MUCH faster than no limit :

Minimal rebuys
Minimal making change
No bet sizing
No counting down stacks

And my favorite part,

No "Hollywooding!!!"
Not standard I suppose, but not that big of a deal to have only one blind or two equal blinds. I run a game like this every month (although not by my choice).
 

Papasatyr

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For fixed limit, I prefer at least 250 of my main denomination. That’s the number of chips needed to avoid an “awkward value chip” at any limit, while buying-in 10 players for 30 big bets. “Awkward value chip” is my name for a value chip too big for use in play; e.g. a $25 chip is awkward in a $3/$6 game because big bet streets cap at 4 bets for $24. The chip has no use in play, only useful for making change.

325 of your main denominations is better. That allows two barrels of any denomination chip with 8 players.
Numbers evenly divided into barrels are nice because chips are easy to count. With a $1/$2 game, 325 of each denomination allows a nice easy rack of 20 x $0.25; 40 x $1.00; 3 x $5.00 for a $60 buy-in.

400 is better still. With 8 players, 400 chips allows you to discard the value chip altogether. That same $1/$2 game, 8 players, can now be run with: 40 x $0.25 + 50 x $1.00–all ante and betting chips. 400 also enables barrel counting for 10 players.

All that said, super serious limit-playing chippers get 800-1000 of their main denomination. This is quite simply a limit-playing chipper’s highest means of expressing: “why fuck around?”
 

CrazyEddie

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In a limit game, I wouldn’t expect the value chip to be used for anything other than making change, and don’t see it as a problem.

All that said, super serious limit-playing chippers get 800-1000 of their main denomination. This is quite simply a limit-playing chipper’s highest means of expressing: “why fuck around?”
I think you meant to say “1600-2000”. :)
 

detroitdad

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I host 3/6 limit. Blinds are $1/$2's. I own 1100 x 1 and 60 x $20 plaques.

I cap my FL games at 7 players (prefer 6). I give everyone 140 x 1 and the rest in plaques. I usually buy in for 400 (simply because I can).

I've used this structure/starting stacks for 4 events and it has worked perfect for us.
 

Papasatyr

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In a limit game, I wouldn’t expect the value chip to be used for anything other than making change, and don’t see it as a problem.
Methinks this hits upon a core philosophical question...
Which one: 1000 x Milanos, or 300 Paulsons?

I went with the 1000 x Nexgens last time I assembled a set. This time I’m working with 600 clay chips, awkward value chips and all. I’m sure I’ll learn just how attached I am to my “minimal change making” paradigm.
 

Papasatyr

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A typical single-table 1/2 fixed-limit set (using 50c/$1 blinds) for Hold'em or Omaha would contain 900x 25c betting chips and 100x $20 value chips. In fixed-limit board card games, the bets (and raises) are limited to either $1 (pre-flop and flop) or $2 (turn and river bets and raises). Most fixed-limit Stud games use a smaller ante (25c) with a minimum forced bring-in amount (50c, paid by the worst showing hand), followed by $1 small bet (and raises) on 3rd and 4th street, with the $2 big bet (and raises) used on 5th-7th street. Only one bet and three raises are allowed per street, regardless of format.
Huh? You wouldn’t go with mountains of $1 chips and use a $0.25 ante chip for the small blind?
 

detroitdad

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CrazyEddie

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... and while we’re on the topic:

It's no different than someone coming on here and asking for a 300 max chip breakdown for an 8 handed nl game.
80/160/40/20 plus cash plays if the bank is too small and get used to making change, boom, done. :)

Make it 120/120/40/20 if you’re gonna play mixed games with fixed-limit in the mix.

Edit: Silly me, instead of 20 of the fourth denom it should be 16 and then 4 of the fifth denom, and then you’ll probably have a big enough bank if you don’t play very deep.
 
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Nanook

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................All that said, super serious limit-playing chippers get 800-1000 of their main denomination. This is quite simply a limit-playing chipper’s highest means of expressing: “why fuck around?”
yea, someone else said 1600-2000 & I'm not going to say that is wrong because I think more is always better and I am a big fan of lots of chips, but I do think in a 6 max game you could get away with 1200 of your main denomination and then a rack of value chips. That is 200/player which will work just fine. In a 4 chip game you still might find it a bit short depending on how aggressive the game plays, but in a 3 chip game it would almost always be fine.
 

Nanook

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... and while we’re on the topic:


80/160/40/20 plus cash plays if the bank is too small and get used to making change, boom, done. :)

Make it 120/120/40/20 if you’re gonna play mixed games with fixed-limit in the mix.
sure, you can do what ever you want and in a lot of cases you can make due, but why would you want to just make due with so few chips. If money is so tight that you can't afford a 600 milanos or something like that for 20 or 30¢/chip then why are you even here? Is it possible that focusing on other things rather than buying poker chips or playing poker would be a better use of your time?
 

CrazyEddie

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Good point, but there can be a few reasons.
  • The chips you want just aren’t available in larger quantities.
  • You’d rather keep / carry a smaller set if weight and space matter.
  • You’d rather spend your money on a larger number of smaller sets than on fewer larger sets.
Nobody should feel like they have to approach this hobby a certain way. There’s plenty of room to be flexible.
 

BGinGA

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Huh? You wouldn’t go with mountains of $1 chips and use a $0.25 ante chip for the small blind?
Nope. Even bigger mountains of 25c chips using a 4-chip/8-chip format. No need for $1 chips whatsoever at 1/2 limit -- it will only tighten up (and slow down) the game. Using all 50c chips also works (2-chip/4-chip), but is less flexible for 1/2 stud games.

Somebody needs to post a pic of @Jeff's stack of 50c chips when playing 2/4 limit 4-chip/8-chip) using Harley's set at a @courage meet-up. Classic mountains.
 
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Papasatyr

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Nope. Even bigger mountains of 25c chips using a 4-chip/8-chip format. No need for $1 chips whatsoever at 1/2 limit -- it will only tighten up (and slow down) the game.
That is a sound argument. Home games should be loose, because good poker is not fun poker. I’ve never had the problem of a room full of rocks—maniacs, for sure, but no rocks—but should it happen yours is a fantastic idea. A dollar is real money, but who’s gonna miss four quarters?
 

JustDave

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Is an ideal chip setup to play FLHE .50/1 or 1/2 something like 900x $025s and 100x $5? Or when you talk about the value chip do you want it to be 20x the small bet?
 

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Is an ideal chip setup to play FLHE .50/1 or 1/2 something like 900x $025s and 100x $5? Or when you talk about the value chip do you want it to be 20x the small bet?
The value chip shouldnt ever be in play...only used to hold value. So, in play, if a player runs out of workhorse, he would swap out with a big stack 1 value chip for a stack of workhorse.

In a $1/2 game, this would be a $10 chip (or two $5's) for a stack of $.50s.
 

JustinInMN

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Is an ideal chip setup to play FLHE .50/1 or 1/2 something like 900x $025s and 100x $5? Or when you talk about the value chip do you want it to be 20x the small bet?
I would say yes if you are playing the games with quarters.

@grebe 's answer above is assuming you would be playing with 0.50 chips where 20x would be 10 dollars. But your question was about playing with quarters.

The reason for doing high value chips is so if change is required it's one chip for several workhorse chips. The values are far apart where one actions accomplishes this. If you play a quarter game with singles, you will get in a spot where you have to make change on every street for fewer chips.

The value store method (using a value chip of 20x or more) is a better approach.
 

JustDave

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I would say yes if you are playing the games with quarters.

@grebe 's answer above is assuming you would be playing with 0.50 chips where 20x would be 10 dollars. But your question was about playing with quarters.

The reason for doing high value chips is so if change is required it's one chip for several workhorse chips. The values are far apart where one actions accomplishes this. If you play a quarter game with singles, you will get in a spot where you have to make change on every street for fewer chips.

The value store method (using a value chip of 20x or more) is a better approach.
Thanks for the clarity, I was kinda confused with the reference to $10s if I'm honest. The earlier references to using quarters when playing 0.50/1 or 1/2 make total sense to make it a 2 chip or 4 chip game, but then people were bouncing between quarters and 20s and that was somewhat swirly.

I've never played limit but I'm interested in learning more about putting limit sets together. Just the logistics seem challenging. I'll admit 18 racks of one denomination chip seems REALLY daunting, like I somewhat wonder where you even put that together. You can go stock ceramic obviously average something like 55-60 cents a chip and look at a set that's ~$1200 just out the gate. Something like CPC is somewhat head spinning. The only way I think you can find paulson in that quantity is if you go with a TCR sale. Like you could get that many at .89 a chip right now but that's pretty rare. Even just owning 2000 chips in one set has challenges for storage and movement.

I've seen in other sets folks say not to use a value on the limit sets because that isn't future proof for your game. If people go the non denom route for limit sets, do they put a unit on it like 1 on the workhorse and 20 on the value even if it really .25 and 5 or 1 and 20 or some other value? Or do they just leave them be without any kind of denom?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

Dave
 

JustinInMN

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've never played limit but I'm interested in learning more about putting limit sets together. Just the logistics seem challenging. I'll admit 18 racks of one denomination chip seems REALLY daunting, like I somewhat wonder where you even put that together. You can go stock ceramic obviously average something like 55-60 cents a chip and look at a set that's ~$1200 just out the gate.

Well if you get customs its much easier :).

Or the way I looked at it with my customs, I would want 300-400 singles for my NL set anyway, it's really only 400 extra to accommodate limit. :).
 

grebe

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Thanks for the clarity, I was kinda confused with the reference to $10s if I'm honest. The earlier references to using quarters when playing 0.50/1 or 1/2 make total sense to make it a 2 chip or 4 chip game, but then people were bouncing between quarters and 20s and that was somewhat swirly.

I've never played limit but I'm interested in learning more about putting limit sets together. Just the logistics seem challenging. I'll admit 18 racks of one denomination chip seems REALLY daunting, like I somewhat wonder where you even put that together. You can go stock ceramic obviously average something like 55-60 cents a chip and look at a set that's ~$1200 just out the gate. Something like CPC is somewhat head spinning. The only way I think you can find paulson in that quantity is if you go with a TCR sale. Like you could get that many at .89 a chip right now but that's pretty rare. Even just owning 2000 chips in one set has challenges for storage and movement.

I've seen in other sets folks say not to use a value on the limit sets because that isn't future proof for your game. If people go the non denom route for limit sets, do they put a unit on it like 1 on the workhorse and 20 on the value even if it really .25 and 5 or 1 and 20 or some other value? Or do they just leave them be without any kind of denom?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

Dave

For a 4-chip game, you really can get by with a rack per player. There are people here that will disagree, but I have never been to a home game where I thought "these people need to loosen up!".

If you are coming to @Seeking Alpha Social Club meetup game in May, I hope that I will be debuting my limit set. I have 940 pink non-denom chips, plus a rack of $25's and 250 non-denom whites. I will probably never use the whites, but it could be fun to use the whites as ante chips for stud games. Totally unnecessary, but it is a chipper meetup game. I don't see the need in having anything bigger....that is, unless you just want to.

Another option would be to buy those leftover China Clays at .06/chip. If you arent going to play limit regularly, you can buy a HUGE set for a hundred bucks. I have a thousand browns that will probably never get used since I just found my dream set. Maybe we can make a deal.
 

JustinInMN

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For a 4-chip game, you really can get by with a rack per player. There are people here that will disagree, but I have never been to a home game where I thought "these people need to loosen up!".

In a home game, I think this is fine, even in a 4- and 8- chip structure. People will accept (some even seem to enjoy) making change with chips. Feel free to go for more if you can of course.

We had a pretty interesting thread on how far you could really take a limit set last fall, that's certainly worth a read.
 

JustDave

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For a 4-chip game, you really can get by with a rack per player. There are people here that will disagree, but I have never been to a home game where I thought "these people need to loosen up!".

If you are coming to @Seeking Alpha Social Club meetup game in May, I hope that I will be debuting my limit set. I have 940 pink non-denom chips, plus a rack of $25's and 250 non-denom whites. I will probably never use the whites, but it could be fun to use the whites as ante chips for stud games. Totally unnecessary, but it is a chipper meetup game. I don't see the need in having anything bigger....that is, unless you just want to.

Another option would be to buy those leftover China Clays at .06/chip. If you arent going to play limit regularly, you can buy a HUGE set for a hundred bucks. I have a thousand browns that will probably never get used since I just found my dream set. Maybe we can make a deal.
I'm interested in seeing a limit set in action.

My group plays mostly craps and I'm looking to get them into playing poker. To build a longer/more enduring home game I want to encourage Fixed Limit as a lot of my group, when it has come up, has stated they 'don't want to get bullied around' by someone with a big stack or someone who is taking it super seriously.

I'm not quite in the market presently for a limit set, working on finishing my regular cash set, then I want to do a custom craps, then I'll start looking at Limit from a project perspective.
 

JustinInMN

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To build a longer/more enduring home game I want to encourage Fixed Limit as a lot of my group, when it has come up, has stated they 'don't want to get bullied around' by someone with a big stack or someone who is taking it super seriously.
That shows you actually have pretty thoughtful players, and starting a limit game is exactly the right way to go.

I'm not quite in the market presently for a limit set, working on finishing my regular cash set, then I want to do a custom craps, then I'll start looking at Limit from a project perspective.

Well maybe just get some extra chips in your "regular" cash set, or maybe you really should just prioritize the limit set :), and then build your "regular" cash set around that ;).
 

Nanook

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I'm interested in seeing a limit set in action.
Here are a couple pics that I took just last week. Neither stack is particularly unusual in either game. Yellow chips are $2 & I have a little over 5 racks in front of me playing 8/16 and in the 2nd pic I am playing 20/40 with about 2 1/2 racks in front of me.

 

JustDave

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Here are a couple pics that I took just last week. Neither stack is particularly unusual in either game. Yellow chips are $2 & I have a little over 5 racks in front of me playing 8/16 and in the 2nd pic I am playing 20/40 with about 2 1/2 racks in front of me.

uhhh, pretty big for a home game.
 

Nanook

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uhhh, pretty big for a home game.
Yea, Just substitute at least 1600 $1's (2000 would be better) and a few bigger chips - doesn't really matter all that much $20 or $25's or even $100's would be fine too and you have a limit set that will work well for a small game
 

Nanook

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For anyone that says a limit set is too expensive because you need so many chips, here is a thought.....

Basically free chips... well not free as you do have to pay for them, but it is sort of like you are renting them for the fee of tying up your money with a full 100%, anytime, no questions asked refund policy.

Go to your local Card Room (or any card room that you like the $1's) and just start harvesting $1's every time you go there. I play live a lot and there is basically no effort or extra time involved in harvesting chips whatsoever. There is NO NEED to be paying anyone $2/chip or any other ridiculous fee to harvest chips for you. They are available in unlimited quantities right at the cage for $1/chip. Think about this: thousands of pretty Paulsons of your choice for the bargain of a lifetime price = FREE! (Rental fee not included)

Depending on the games that are offered you will be able to harvest between 20-200 chips/session. 1/2nl or 2/5nl it is going to be no more than 20 or maybe 40 or so chips. Any sort of limit 3/6, 4/8 Hold-em, Omaha, O8, Stud, Stud 8 what ever you are going to be able to get a lot. 200 would be a snap in any sort of 4/8 game. Start out just being less picky if you want more and once you have enough then return the beat up ones and replace with better ones over time.
 

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My group plays mostly craps and I'm looking to get them into playing poker. To build a longer/more enduring home game I want to encourage Fixed Limit as a lot of my group, when it has come up, has stated they 'don't want to get bullied around' by someone with a big stack or someone who is taking it super seriously.
This sounds like a great idea for your group! I wouldn't wait on building a nice limit set before playing limit games regularly. Go ahead and get your group started as soon as you/they would like. You've got two options rather than putting together a new and expensive set, and they're both fine:
  • Play fixed-limit using your standard set! Totally doable. It's a different experience than "mountains of chips" but the appeal of fixed limit is in the gameplay, not the chips (okay, not just the chips).
  • Make a short-term fixed-limit set using cheap and crappy chips! Your players won't care about the quality of chips (players are tasteless heathens, unlike us cultured chip connoisseurs) and you'll all get to enjoy having mountains of chips without spending thousands of dollars.
Here's about the cheapest chip I can find with a cursory search: https://chipsandgames.com/collectio...-5-gram-poker-chips-50-chips-chose-your-color - $2.99 for 50. That's sixty bucks for ten racks, one rack per player for a full table. Add a rack of literally any other chip to use as the 20x value chip and you'll have a bank of 300 per player, which is probably plenty for a limit game. These are metal-slugged ABS and at 11.5 grams they're heavy but not ridiculous, and they don't look too bad IMHO.

If you want lighter chips, here are some unslugged super diamonds that would work great as well, and like the ones above they're six cents a chip, so sixty bucks plus shipping and you're all set: https://www.pokerchipmania.com/composite-poker-chips/super-diamond/

If you post a wanted ad in the PCF classifieds you'll probably find someone willing to give you a thousand crappy chips for free! Or at the very least get a great deal on a big set of decent chips.

If you start with playing fixed-limit hold-em, you'll be in great shape to start introducing mixed games, whether it's a fixed rotation of standbys like HORSE or a larger selection of circus games like you'll find here. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! Play games now, build your ideal set of chips later!
 

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